E46 Gear Change Clunk
Discussion
Paul M said:
dr_gn said:
How long have you had the car? I've had mine about 5 months and I've just accepted it. If it packs up I'll worry about it as and when.
Have had the car since May - Still have seven months on the Warranty should matters worsen 
Paul M said:
Art0ir said:
Maybe it's a driver thing?
I'm sure it's not - It seems quite a common issue and having learnt quite a bit on here regarding it I believe it's mechanical.dr_gn said:
Absolutely not technique - I can get the clunk when stationary just by putting it into first/reverse. Apart from not knowing what a clutch is, there's no technique there!
Absolutely. The clunk is there when the car is stationary. However, keeping the clutch depressed and changing gears lessens the clunk or if changing into first (whilst stationary) very slowly then the clunk is almost non existant. But as I reasoned with the BMW tech why should changing "driving style" have to be adopted to lessen the issue? It would not be normal practice when staionary to keep the clutch permanently depressed or change gear as if in slow motion - Therefore trying to overcome the mechanical issue!
I changed the propshaft, flex coupling and centre bearing last weekend. My drive is much smoother & quieter cause the old prop was f
ked. The clunk is a little bit better but still there.
The remaining drivetrain lash is in the rear half shafts, one side seems to be mostly the inboard CV joint and one side mostly the outboard.
I might change the shafts if I have to do a wheel bearing or something but otherwise I'm just going to live with it.
ked. The clunk is a little bit better but still there. The remaining drivetrain lash is in the rear half shafts, one side seems to be mostly the inboard CV joint and one side mostly the outboard.
I might change the shafts if I have to do a wheel bearing or something but otherwise I'm just going to live with it.
buggalugs said:
I changed the propshaft, flex coupling and centre bearing last weekend. My drive is much smoother & quieter cause the old prop was fked. The clunk is a little bit better but still there.
The remaining drivetrain lash is in the rear half shafts, one side seems to be mostly the inboard CV joint and one side mostly the outboard.
I might change the shafts if I have to do a wheel bearing or something but otherwise I'm just going to live with it.
Would be interesting to see if the clunk was still present should you change the other shafts - although would prove to be somewhat costly and without any guarantee that the issue was sorted.ked. The clunk is a little bit better but still there. The remaining drivetrain lash is in the rear half shafts, one side seems to be mostly the inboard CV joint and one side mostly the outboard.
I might change the shafts if I have to do a wheel bearing or something but otherwise I'm just going to live with it.
For the last few days........ No clunk! Try as I did today engaging first from standstill - Nothing! Seems to have mysteriously cured itself (fingers crossed) Still a bit of a noise from first to second but nothing like it was. Maybe the replacement clutch and flywheel have "settled in" or a few more thousand miles on the clock has helped.
Whatever the reason it appears sorted - hopefully for good.
Whatever the reason it appears sorted - hopefully for good.
Paul M said:
For the last few days........ No clunk! Try as I did today engaging first from standstill - Nothing! Seems to have mysteriously cured itself (fingers crossed) Still a bit of a noise from first to second but nothing like it was. Maybe the replacement clutch and flywheel have "settled in" or a few more thousand miles on the clock has helped.
Whatever the reason it appears sorted - hopefully for good.
Is it the colder weather that's thickened the transmission oil?Whatever the reason it appears sorted - hopefully for good.
ETA mine was fine too this morning (2 degrees C outside), but was back to the normal clunking by the time I'd got to work 10 miles later.
Edited by dr_gn on Monday 5th November 13:03
The clunk that is heard when you slot it into gear is all of the play in the drivetrain being taken up. Which there is not much you can do about apart from replacing the propshaft, diff and driveshafts.
You have a little play in the diff, both inner joints and both outer joints plus whatever wear is on the propshaft (if any), a shaft has to be well fooked before there is play in the joints and I have never seen a BMW joint worn yet, although I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
The reason you are not hearing it when it is colder, is that the gearbox oil is thicker which dampens the jolt through the shaft when you put it into gear, hence it's back to normal when it warms up.
Also the knock is reduced when you engage a gear while rolling down a hill as the shafts are already rotating and there is a smaller speed differential minimising the shock.
Two things which might help are fresh gear and diff oil if the the original stuff is a bit thin and tired and holding the clutch in for a few seconds before engaging gear.
This should allow the first motion shaft to slow down as the friction plate will act like a flywheel to keep it spinning, although this depends on how much the clutch is dragging when disengaged.
Thats my opinion anyway.
You have a little play in the diff, both inner joints and both outer joints plus whatever wear is on the propshaft (if any), a shaft has to be well fooked before there is play in the joints and I have never seen a BMW joint worn yet, although I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
The reason you are not hearing it when it is colder, is that the gearbox oil is thicker which dampens the jolt through the shaft when you put it into gear, hence it's back to normal when it warms up.
Also the knock is reduced when you engage a gear while rolling down a hill as the shafts are already rotating and there is a smaller speed differential minimising the shock.
Two things which might help are fresh gear and diff oil if the the original stuff is a bit thin and tired and holding the clutch in for a few seconds before engaging gear.
This should allow the first motion shaft to slow down as the friction plate will act like a flywheel to keep it spinning, although this depends on how much the clutch is dragging when disengaged.
Thats my opinion anyway.
Edited by Ritchie335is on Monday 5th November 23:43
Ritchie335is said:
The clunk that is heard when you slot it into gear is all of the play in the drivetrain being taken up. Which there is not much you can do about apart from replacing the propshaft, diff and driveshafts.
You have a little play in the diff, both inner joints and both outer joints plus whatever wear is on the propshaft (if any), a shaft has to be well fooked before there is play in the joints and I have never seen a BMW joint worn yet, although I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
The reason you are not hearing it when it is colder, is that the gearbox oil is thicker which dampens the jolt through the shaft when you put it into gear, hence it's back to normal when it warms up.
Also the knock is reduced when you engage a gear while rolling down a hill as the shafts are already rotating and there is a smaller speed differential minimising the shock.
Two things which might help are fresh gear and diff oil if the the original stuff is a bit thin and tired and holding the clutch in for a few seconds before engaging gear.
This should allow the first motion shaft to slow down as the friction plate will act like a flywheel to keep it spinning, although this depends on how much the clutch is dragging when disengaged.
Thats my opinion anyway.
Pretty sure it's the thicker rear axle oil that's damping the noise, or perhaps a combination of gearbox and rear axle, which is why I said "tansmission oil", which covers both. On mine I'm sure it's coming from the nearside of the diff/driveshaft, the clunk istself isn't from the gearbox, although obviously that's where the initial movement comes from.You have a little play in the diff, both inner joints and both outer joints plus whatever wear is on the propshaft (if any), a shaft has to be well fooked before there is play in the joints and I have never seen a BMW joint worn yet, although I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
The reason you are not hearing it when it is colder, is that the gearbox oil is thicker which dampens the jolt through the shaft when you put it into gear, hence it's back to normal when it warms up.
Also the knock is reduced when you engage a gear while rolling down a hill as the shafts are already rotating and there is a smaller speed differential minimising the shock.
Two things which might help are fresh gear and diff oil if the the original stuff is a bit thin and tired and holding the clutch in for a few seconds before engaging gear.
This should allow the first motion shaft to slow down as the friction plate will act like a flywheel to keep it spinning, although this depends on how much the clutch is dragging when disengaged.
Thats my opinion anyway.
Edited by Ritchie335is on Monday 5th November 23:43
Ritchie335is said:
The clunk that is heard when you slot it into gear is all of the play in the drivetrain being taken up. Which there is not much you can do about apart from replacing the propshaft, diff and driveshafts.
You have a little play in the diff, both inner joints and both outer joints plus whatever wear is on the propshaft (if any), a shaft has to be well fooked before there is play in the joints and I have never seen a BMW joint worn yet, although I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
The reason you are not hearing it when it is colder, is that the gearbox oil is thicker which dampens the jolt through the shaft when you put it into gear, hence it's back to normal when it warms up.
Also the knock is reduced when you engage a gear while rolling down a hill as the shafts are already rotating and there is a smaller speed differential minimising the shock.
Two things which might help are fresh gear and diff oil if the the original stuff is a bit thin and tired and holding the clutch in for a few seconds before engaging gear.
This should allow the first motion shaft to slow down as the friction plate will act like a flywheel to keep it spinning, although this depends on how much the clutch is dragging when disengaged.
Thats my opinion anyway.
Your clear explanation certainly helps me understand the mechanics of the issue.You have a little play in the diff, both inner joints and both outer joints plus whatever wear is on the propshaft (if any), a shaft has to be well fooked before there is play in the joints and I have never seen a BMW joint worn yet, although I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
The reason you are not hearing it when it is colder, is that the gearbox oil is thicker which dampens the jolt through the shaft when you put it into gear, hence it's back to normal when it warms up.
Also the knock is reduced when you engage a gear while rolling down a hill as the shafts are already rotating and there is a smaller speed differential minimising the shock.
Two things which might help are fresh gear and diff oil if the the original stuff is a bit thin and tired and holding the clutch in for a few seconds before engaging gear.
This should allow the first motion shaft to slow down as the friction plate will act like a flywheel to keep it spinning, although this depends on how much the clutch is dragging when disengaged.
Thats my opinion anyway.
Edited by Ritchie335is on Monday 5th November 23:43
However, why is the play more noticeable in my (and others) vehicle?. I've never had it with any other vehicle I have owned - BMW, non BMW or any other vehicle I have driven. I question whether it is a design fault or poor engineering!
Paul M said:
Your clear explanation certainly helps me understand the mechanics of the issue.
However, why is the play more noticeable in my (and others) vehicle?. I've never had it with any other vehicle I have owned - BMW, non BMW or any other vehicle I have driven. I question whether it is a design fault or poor engineering!
You also need to include varying machining/assembly tolerances, possible driving abuse (as in some cars get driven harder than others), a lack of servicing on drive train components and various other things that could have an effect on it.However, why is the play more noticeable in my (and others) vehicle?. I've never had it with any other vehicle I have owned - BMW, non BMW or any other vehicle I have driven. I question whether it is a design fault or poor engineering!
All cars have their own weaknesses, be it coil springs breaking, weak gearbox syncromeshes, ignition coil failures etc., etc., and it can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, between different models from the same manufacturer, even between different cars in the same model range.
Have a read through the various manufacturers here: http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/default.as... and see how many of them have issues!
4rephill said:
Paul M said:
Your clear explanation certainly helps me understand the mechanics of the issue.
However, why is the play more noticeable in my (and others) vehicle?. I've never had it with any other vehicle I have owned - BMW, non BMW or any other vehicle I have driven. I question whether it is a design fault or poor engineering!
You also need to include varying machining/assembly tolerances, possible driving abuse (as in some cars get driven harder than others), a lack of servicing on drive train components and various other things that could have an effect on it.However, why is the play more noticeable in my (and others) vehicle?. I've never had it with any other vehicle I have owned - BMW, non BMW or any other vehicle I have driven. I question whether it is a design fault or poor engineering!
All cars have their own weaknesses, be it coil springs breaking, weak gearbox syncromeshes, ignition coil failures etc., etc., and it can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, between different models from the same manufacturer, even between different cars in the same model range.
Have a read through the various manufacturers here: http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/default.as... and see how many of them have issues!
I did expect a lot more from "the ultimate driving machine".
Very excited right now gentlemen...
Since the vid above I replaced the propshaft, doughnut and centre bearing which made things a bit better; but clunk still very noticable. Most noticable engaging 1st from a standstill. It seemed to come from the diff area. I could also sometimes feel some drivetrain lash coming gently back onto the throttle say mid-corner.
Just spent a couple of hours replacing the outboard o/s CV joint, and been for a spin, no clunk
There was quite a bit of play in the old joint in the position that it ran at.I actually couldn't find 328 e46 shafts in good condition except by buying new (£££), so I got a low miles 2004 320d shaft. This turned out to be much too short; but the outboard bit with the splines and CV joint on it was the same, so I just swapped that onto my shaft.
Will post back in a few days but feeling confident at the mo, spent a few minutes on the drive going from 1st to reverse and back and generally dicking about with the gearstick and couldn't make it do it... can't say everyone's clunk will have the same cause but I'm pleased anyway
Edited by buggalugs on Saturday 9th February 19:29
The problem is a common E46 one and is easy and cheap to fix. It's the splines where the front and rear sections join not having enough grease - slacken the collar, pull the centre of the prop down, grease it all up and reassemble, doing the collar nut up FT. That cures most E46 driveline clonks. It can also be due to excessive backlash in the diff (pinion too far away from crownwheel) but that normally results in a diff whine with power on/off.
Touring442 said:
The problem is a common E46 one and is easy and cheap to fix. It's the splines where the front and rear sections join not having enough grease - slacken the collar, pull the centre of the prop down, grease it all up and reassemble, doing the collar nut up FT. That cures most E46 driveline clonks. It can also be due to excessive backlash in the diff (pinion too far away from crownwheel) but that normally results in a diff whine with power on/off.
Good post, fair point. I always thought the diff in mine was a bit whiney.I think I'm getting a bit of a wheel bearing grumble from the arse end of mine now.
Which is really odd, because I have owned loads of BMWs in the past and have rebuilt quite a few but have never changed a rear hub bearing.
Why, now on a 320d touring would it have run a bearing? I had an E30 335i that had 150k on it and it was driven like it was stolen every time I was out in it.
It was completely rebuilt, but I never had to change the rear bearings.
Odd.
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff