Thief proofing your BMW?
Discussion
Our car got stolen a couple of weeks ago (2008 X5), smashed window and after that I guess they connected to the OBD port and somehow got the thing going.
Since I can't think of a better option for a comfortable 7 seater that is also a little bit of fun, I'm looking pretty much to replace it like for like. I'm guessing the thieves would also like to steal like for like, so I'm looking at additional safety measures. Car is in a well lit spot, with additional security light in full view from the street, so these thieves knew what they were doing and are not shy.
1. How are thieves actually stealing these cars, as i described above or is it more crude (or more sophisticated) then this?
2. What would you do to prevent them to get away with the car again? The car will live outside still in the same spot outside our garage, so I guess there is no way of stopping them getting in the car, but I want to stop them getting it started.
2a. A physical switch cutting power to for example the fuel pump or starter motor?
2b. A separate immobilizer?
2c. Get rid of the OBD port. Cutting the wires and install connector to you plug in the OBD port when you need it. Put a dummy OBD in its place. (Put in a obd port connected to mains power to blow up their device.. )
Or how else can I go about this?
Thanks,
Fred
Since I can't think of a better option for a comfortable 7 seater that is also a little bit of fun, I'm looking pretty much to replace it like for like. I'm guessing the thieves would also like to steal like for like, so I'm looking at additional safety measures. Car is in a well lit spot, with additional security light in full view from the street, so these thieves knew what they were doing and are not shy.
1. How are thieves actually stealing these cars, as i described above or is it more crude (or more sophisticated) then this?
2. What would you do to prevent them to get away with the car again? The car will live outside still in the same spot outside our garage, so I guess there is no way of stopping them getting in the car, but I want to stop them getting it started.
2a. A physical switch cutting power to for example the fuel pump or starter motor?
2b. A separate immobilizer?
2c. Get rid of the OBD port. Cutting the wires and install connector to you plug in the OBD port when you need it. Put a dummy OBD in its place. (Put in a obd port connected to mains power to blow up their device.. )
Or how else can I go about this?
Thanks,
Fred
hyphen said:
older X5 seems a strange choice to steal... was it in gangster black?
If so then buying one in Beige or Green may make it less desirable!! And aftermarket alarm/immobiliser.
Yep gangsta-black fo sho!If so then buying one in Beige or Green may make it less desirable!! And aftermarket alarm/immobiliser.
Probably my least favourite colour (after maybe silver) but it doesn't really enter into my search criteria, I'm a 2nd hand buyer and spec will always rule. This car was great, albeit black.
Very sorry to hear this....fk me I remember when this first started happening...so worried my car would "get done" as it was parked on the street in London. Battery cut off from what I remember is not a great solution as the battery is in the boot...also not sure it does these cars any good to constantly be losing power etc. Moving OBD port is a good idea as is the idea of some collapsible posts/bollards to make the car harder to move...also some lighting. You need some kind of physical deterrent I think....make them go elsewhere...ultimately if they want it they'll get it sadly.
I traded in a very high spec 2007 X5 SD at the weekend...1 owner 60k miles. Gangster grey in this case.
I traded in a very high spec 2007 X5 SD at the weekend...1 owner 60k miles. Gangster grey in this case.
Cheib said:
Very sorry to hear this....fk me I remember when this first started happening...so worried my car would "get done" as it was parked on the street in London. Battery cut off from what I remember is not a great solution as the battery is in the boot...also not sure it does these cars any good to constantly be losing power etc. Moving OBD port is a good idea as is the idea of some collapsible posts/bollards to make the car harder to move...also some lighting. You need some kind of physical deterrent I think....make them go elsewhere...ultimately if they want it they'll get it sadly.
I traded in a very high spec 2007 X5 SD at the weekend...1 owner 60k miles. Gangster grey in this case.
Did you own it from new? Tell me more, is it a good car? where did you trade it in? I'm interested.I traded in a very high spec 2007 X5 SD at the weekend...1 owner 60k miles. Gangster grey in this case.
I am looking into collapsible bollards, but it seems a faff and/or very expensive. Mind you so is loosing a car to thieves.
Battery cut off is ruled out, messes up car setting specially memory seats.
It's a well lit area literally outside our front door. It's the courtyard in front of a row of townhouses. Additionally each garage have security lights with motion sensors. These were disabled by force. Not much can be done to improve this that wouldn't be susceptible to the same.
Is there any other wired access points to the cars 'brain', other then the OBD port? Any wireless ways to connect to the car?
Why are these so easy to steal, anyone know?
Thanks
Breaking the window seems amateur, when my 5 series went off the drive they did it without making a mess
After obtaining the replacement 5, I had BMW ensure it had the latest software, I've relocated the OBD port and added a steering wheel disklok, so 80's takes me back to my Cosworth days.. - (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Disklok-Steering-Wheel-Lock-35/dp/B004L4IXRI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488820228&sr=8-1&keywords=disklok)
So far, the replacement car has sat where I've left if for nearly 2 1/2 yrs.
After obtaining the replacement 5, I had BMW ensure it had the latest software, I've relocated the OBD port and added a steering wheel disklok, so 80's takes me back to my Cosworth days.. - (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Disklok-Steering-Wheel-Lock-35/dp/B004L4IXRI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488820228&sr=8-1&keywords=disklok)
So far, the replacement car has sat where I've left if for nearly 2 1/2 yrs.
fredt said:
Cheib said:
Very sorry to hear this....fk me I remember when this first started happening...so worried my car would "get done" as it was parked on the street in London. Battery cut off from what I remember is not a great solution as the battery is in the boot...also not sure it does these cars any good to constantly be losing power etc. Moving OBD port is a good idea as is the idea of some collapsible posts/bollards to make the car harder to move...also some lighting. You need some kind of physical deterrent I think....make them go elsewhere...ultimately if they want it they'll get it sadly.
I traded in a very high spec 2007 X5 SD at the weekend...1 owner 60k miles. Gangster grey in this case.
Did you own it from new? Tell me more, is it a good car? where did you trade it in? I'm interested.I traded in a very high spec 2007 X5 SD at the weekend...1 owner 60k miles. Gangster grey in this case.
I am looking into collapsible bollards, but it seems a faff and/or very expensive. Mind you so is loosing a car to thieves.
Battery cut off is ruled out, messes up car setting specially memory seats.
It's a well lit area literally outside our front door. It's the courtyard in front of a row of townhouses. Additionally each garage have security lights with motion sensors. These were disabled by force. Not much can be done to improve this that wouldn't be susceptible to the same.
Is there any other wired access points to the cars 'brain', other then the OBD port? Any wireless ways to connect to the car?
Why are these so easy to steal, anyone know?
Thanks
Was a very good car, owned it from new and kept it much, much longer than any other car I have ever had. Did quite a few continental journeys four up with loads of luggage/roof box which it just did superbly. Very comfortable and for the first six years nothing went wrong...last couple of needed sunroof replacing and the rear airbag suspension on one side (both common issues)....car was still under warranty from new. Spec was Se with Dynamic Pack, 20" wheels, 7 seats, pano roof, electric boot, comfort seats (superb and very rare), heated seats and steering wheel, adaptive lights, rear blinds, digital radio (not standard then!), sun protection glass (natch) and a few other bits.
Cheib said:
I traded it in at a Sytner owned Porsche dealership....I doubt it will end up at one of there BMW dealers as its too old. I could ask if you're genuinely interested.
Was a very good car, owned it from new and kept it much, much longer than any other car I have ever had. Did quite a few continental journeys four up with loads of luggage/roof box which it just did superbly. Very comfortable and for the first six years nothing went wrong...last couple of needed sunroof replacing and the rear airbag suspension on one side (both common issues)....car was still under warranty from new. Spec was Se with Dynamic Pack, 20" wheels, 7 seats, pano roof, electric boot, comfort seats (superb and very rare), heated seats and steering wheel, adaptive lights, rear blinds, digital radio (not standard then!), sun protection glass (natch) and a few other bits.
Genuinely interested. Sent you an email. CheersWas a very good car, owned it from new and kept it much, much longer than any other car I have ever had. Did quite a few continental journeys four up with loads of luggage/roof box which it just did superbly. Very comfortable and for the first six years nothing went wrong...last couple of needed sunroof replacing and the rear airbag suspension on one side (both common issues)....car was still under warranty from new. Spec was Se with Dynamic Pack, 20" wheels, 7 seats, pano roof, electric boot, comfort seats (superb and very rare), heated seats and steering wheel, adaptive lights, rear blinds, digital radio (not standard then!), sun protection glass (natch) and a few other bits.
Based on the last full figures for 2015, the 'League Table' for England car thefts, by model, is predominantly SUVs, led by the BMW X5 (apologies, I've lost the link, so can't give exact numbers). So avoiding a premium SUV significantly reduces the general probability of theft. These numbers are often used to counter the perceived attraction of cars like M2 and M235i and the notorious Ford Focus RS (the latter seems to feature disproportionately in forum posts as a target for violent crimes). There's also a lot of reporting of electronic cloning but again, it looks like these get disproportionate publicity compared to conventional theft. What genuinely seems to be on the increase is key theft from the home, as cars get increasingly hard to drive away without them. Even then, while most forums get memorable postings about violent removal of keys from the home, the great majority of home key thefts are non-violent and use a variety of ingenious tricks to get hold of them.
My recollection is also that the exception (to the luxury/SUV trend) is older Ford Escort models (see 2016 below).
It's become a bit of an Urban Myth that keyless entry is making it easier to clone, fuelled in part by providers of key protection products. It seems that while it is possible to clone keyless systems, there's no causal relationship i.e. you're no more/less likely to suffer theft with keyless than conventional. So by all means take precautions, but if you're a target for theft 'to order' it won't make a lot of difference.
Police comments on the figures included an analysis that car theft was becoming much more 'to order' by professional criminal gangs. And conversely, much less opportunist individuals. The conclusion was that owners should expect that almost no preventive measures would deter these professionals once your specific car has been targeted and in the end, if they're determined enough, then the last resport is simply to wait until you appear and demand the car with menaces.
I'll see if I can find the theft League Table ....
And by the way, I am genuinely sorry to her the OP story - having been burgled three times, I know that it's all very well discussing statistics and probabilities, but being the victim is a very different thing.
My recollection is also that the exception (to the luxury/SUV trend) is older Ford Escort models (see 2016 below).
It's become a bit of an Urban Myth that keyless entry is making it easier to clone, fuelled in part by providers of key protection products. It seems that while it is possible to clone keyless systems, there's no causal relationship i.e. you're no more/less likely to suffer theft with keyless than conventional. So by all means take precautions, but if you're a target for theft 'to order' it won't make a lot of difference.
Police comments on the figures included an analysis that car theft was becoming much more 'to order' by professional criminal gangs. And conversely, much less opportunist individuals. The conclusion was that owners should expect that almost no preventive measures would deter these professionals once your specific car has been targeted and in the end, if they're determined enough, then the last resport is simply to wait until you appear and demand the car with menaces.
I'll see if I can find the theft League Table ....
And by the way, I am genuinely sorry to her the OP story - having been burgled three times, I know that it's all very well discussing statistics and probabilities, but being the victim is a very different thing.
Edited by msej449 on Tuesday 7th March 12:18
Edited by msej449 on Tuesday 7th March 14:23
Here's the League Table, in order of percentage of cars stolen in 2015 and 2016
2015
• BMW X5
• Mercedes-Benz C-class
• Range Rover Sport
• Mercedes-Benz E-class
• Land Rover Discovery
• BMW M3
• Range Rover Vogue
• Audi RS4
• Mercedes-Benz ML
• Mercedes-Benz C63
2016
• Audi S3: 8.6%
• Land Rover Defender: 5.8%
• Land Rover Range Rover: 3.8%
• Audi Q7: 3.7%
• Ford Escort: 3.6%
• BMW X5: 3.1%
• Audi A5: 3.1%
• Mitsubishi Shogun: 2.4%
• BMW 5 Series: 2.4%
• Toyota Hilux: 2.4%
It's annoying that while you can get to the various press articles, I can't find any link to the original data or pages on government websites - car theft data disappears after 2006. The NaVCIS now processes car crime data - but their website is just fluff with none of the data they hand out to the press available to the public. This means I can't check whether '% of cars stolen' means the percentage of all the cars stolen in England that year, or percentage of that model. For example, 8.6% for the S3 - does it mean that 8.6% of all S3s on the road were stolen in 2016 (which would be hugely alarming if you owned one) or 8.6% of the cars stolen in 2016 were S3s (which might not be that much better a stat ....). My reading is that it's the latter, but that's only of press articles, not the original data.
2015
• BMW X5
• Mercedes-Benz C-class
• Range Rover Sport
• Mercedes-Benz E-class
• Land Rover Discovery
• BMW M3
• Range Rover Vogue
• Audi RS4
• Mercedes-Benz ML
• Mercedes-Benz C63
2016
• Audi S3: 8.6%
• Land Rover Defender: 5.8%
• Land Rover Range Rover: 3.8%
• Audi Q7: 3.7%
• Ford Escort: 3.6%
• BMW X5: 3.1%
• Audi A5: 3.1%
• Mitsubishi Shogun: 2.4%
• BMW 5 Series: 2.4%
• Toyota Hilux: 2.4%
It's annoying that while you can get to the various press articles, I can't find any link to the original data or pages on government websites - car theft data disappears after 2006. The NaVCIS now processes car crime data - but their website is just fluff with none of the data they hand out to the press available to the public. This means I can't check whether '% of cars stolen' means the percentage of all the cars stolen in England that year, or percentage of that model. For example, 8.6% for the S3 - does it mean that 8.6% of all S3s on the road were stolen in 2016 (which would be hugely alarming if you owned one) or 8.6% of the cars stolen in 2016 were S3s (which might not be that much better a stat ....). My reading is that it's the latter, but that's only of press articles, not the original data.
Edited by msej449 on Tuesday 7th March 14:29
Cheib said:
I traded it in at a Sytner owned Porsche dealership....I doubt it will end up at one of there BMW dealers as its too old. I could ask if you're genuinely interested.
Was a very good car, owned it from new and kept it much, much longer than any other car I have ever had. Did quite a few continental journeys four up with loads of luggage/roof box which it just did superbly. Very comfortable and for the first six years nothing went wrong...last couple of needed sunroof replacing and the rear airbag suspension on one side (both common issues)....car was still under warranty from new. Spec was Se with Dynamic Pack, 20" wheels, 7 seats, pano roof, electric boot, comfort seats (superb and very rare), heated seats and steering wheel, adaptive lights, rear blinds, digital radio (not standard then!), sun protection glass (natch) and a few other bits.
I just bought your old car Was a very good car, owned it from new and kept it much, much longer than any other car I have ever had. Did quite a few continental journeys four up with loads of luggage/roof box which it just did superbly. Very comfortable and for the first six years nothing went wrong...last couple of needed sunroof replacing and the rear airbag suspension on one side (both common issues)....car was still under warranty from new. Spec was Se with Dynamic Pack, 20" wheels, 7 seats, pano roof, electric boot, comfort seats (superb and very rare), heated seats and steering wheel, adaptive lights, rear blinds, digital radio (not standard then!), sun protection glass (natch) and a few other bits.
Anything I should know about? It is basically identical spec to the one I lost so bought it unseen. Model year is 2008 isn't?
Edited by fredt on Tuesday 7th March 16:12
If we assume the 2015 X5 proportion was similar to the 2016 Audi S3 (and my recollection is that it was 8.5%), then the official stats say there were 81,158 cars stolen in 2015. So that's 6,899 X5s stolen in 2015! The official figures for YE March 2016 was that only 34% of stolen cars were returned to the owner, so that means 4,554 BMW X5s 'disappeared' in 2015 .... Given police comments, it seems a lot of these got transported out of the country.
BTW you may see figures closer to 240,000 for car thefts, but that is for thefts from cars. It isn't clear whether that number (actually 239,336 thefts from cars) includes the 81,158 stolen cars or is in addition, since if your car was stolen with stuff in it, it could get recorded as both.
The reason I'm interested in all this is that I know someone who was assaulted in their home for their Ford Focus RS keys and was trying to convince him that (a) he was just unlucky (b) he was going to be fine with his replacement BMW M125i and (c) he should stop taking forum posts as statistically representative of crime. Unfortunately, the experience has permanently put him off owning anything but an anonymous Japanese car.
BTW you may see figures closer to 240,000 for car thefts, but that is for thefts from cars. It isn't clear whether that number (actually 239,336 thefts from cars) includes the 81,158 stolen cars or is in addition, since if your car was stolen with stuff in it, it could get recorded as both.
The reason I'm interested in all this is that I know someone who was assaulted in their home for their Ford Focus RS keys and was trying to convince him that (a) he was just unlucky (b) he was going to be fine with his replacement BMW M125i and (c) he should stop taking forum posts as statistically representative of crime. Unfortunately, the experience has permanently put him off owning anything but an anonymous Japanese car.
msej449 said:
If we assume the 2015 X5 proportion was similar to the 2016 Audi S3 (and my recollection is that it was 8.5%), then the official stats say there were 81,158 cars stolen in 2015. So that's 6,899 X5s stolen in 2015! The official figures for YE March 2016 was that only 34% of stolen cars were returned to the owner, so that means 4,554 BMW X5s 'disappeared' in 2015 .... Given police comments, it seems a lot of these got transported out of the country.
BTW you may see figures closer to 240,000 for car thefts, but that is for thefts from cars. It isn't clear whether that number (actually 239,336 thefts from cars) includes the 81,158 stolen cars or is in addition, since if your car was stolen with stuff in it, it could get recorded as both.
The reason I'm interested in all this is that I know someone who was assaulted in their home for their Ford Focus RS keys and was trying to convince him that (a) he was just unlucky (b) he was going to be fine with his replacement BMW M125i and (c) he should stop taking forum posts as statistically representative of crime. Unfortunately, the experience has permanently put him off owning anything but an anonymous Japanese car.
Can't blame him. I'm a little apprehensive myself. Specially putting an identical car back in the same spot!BTW you may see figures closer to 240,000 for car thefts, but that is for thefts from cars. It isn't clear whether that number (actually 239,336 thefts from cars) includes the 81,158 stolen cars or is in addition, since if your car was stolen with stuff in it, it could get recorded as both.
The reason I'm interested in all this is that I know someone who was assaulted in their home for their Ford Focus RS keys and was trying to convince him that (a) he was just unlucky (b) he was going to be fine with his replacement BMW M125i and (c) he should stop taking forum posts as statistically representative of crime. Unfortunately, the experience has permanently put him off owning anything but an anonymous Japanese car.
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