Would you still buy a diesel BMW?
Discussion
Timbergiant said:
I've been looking at buying a new car for a while, leaning towards an SUV for no reason, the diesel/petrol thing is a massive problem there, if a petrol is offered it a big performance thing aimed at giving zero f
ks to mpg and everything else is based on diesel going up to similarly massive "high performance" diesel units, I looked at merc, range rover, jag and the rest of the luxo land barge brigade, its the same with all of them, so in the end I decided that diesel is the next time bomb on the horizon (unles trump has his way and we all die in the nuclear fire) and avoided it.
Bought a petrol hybrid 330e, I think diesel is going to become very unpopular very soon.
I've just bought a 2016 Passat TDI SE.ks to mpg and everything else is based on diesel going up to similarly massive "high performance" diesel units, I looked at merc, range rover, jag and the rest of the luxo land barge brigade, its the same with all of them, so in the end I decided that diesel is the next time bomb on the horizon (unles trump has his way and we all die in the nuclear fire) and avoided it.Bought a petrol hybrid 330e, I think diesel is going to become very unpopular very soon.
We've a A45 as our main car, and we've also had a Volvo T5 as a second car and a Boxster in the garage.
Our mileage has become more sporadic - i could, for example be doing just 80 miles a week with my job role OR 500, likewise my wife could be in the office all week OR be on client site 150 miles away one day a week. So we've opted to reconcile "the fleet" and stick with the A45 for s
ts and giggles and go for a mile muncher as the second car.The parameters were :-
=> High Fuel economy
=> Around £15K
=> NOT a 5 door family hatchback sized car - we have one of those already and i didnt want another
=> 2016, so as young as possible to maximise manufacturers warranty / longevity of the car.
Within those parameters, you're pretty much in to diesel cars OR possibly a Mondeo hybrid, which i dont particularly like. I've had a couple of Passats before and got on well with them.
The "plan" is to run the Passat for a long time, so TBH i dont really give a monkeys if diesels become very unpopular. I cant see fuel duty rising dramatically as that will impact haulage and public transport heavily, and they've never retrospectively changed the road tax (?) which is £20 a year on it.
Its Euro VI compliant so (i'm assuming) has the Ad-Blue tank to minimise NoX, so should be relatively clean.
It'll do 60mpg easy on the runs we need it to do, so assuming no big shakeups means low fuelling costs, and low taxation.
I've no plans to commute in to central london, paris, glasgow, etc so i'm not really giving a monkeys about any punitive charges that may be imposed in the next 10 years.
Edited by daemon on Thursday 27th April 15:49
Ken Figenus said:
daemon said:
Its Euro VI compliant so (i'm assuming) has the Ad-Blue tank to minimise NoX, so should be relatively clean.
535d is Euro6 - no adblue.heebeegeetee said:
Do a bit of research on brake and tyre particulate - the faster the car the bigger brakes and tyres it needs and thus the more particulate, for absolutely no good reason whatsoever beyond personal preference, and yet we put up with "the obvious damage it causes" - but how long will be allowed to?
But with Kinetic Recovery systems being widely the norm in Hybrid and electric vehicles brake use is significantly decreased, and the move towards more low rolling resistance tyres with harder compounds also reduces particulates. So we're already on the path to reducing those issues without further political involvement.Evanivitch said:
But with Kinetic Recovery systems being widely the norm in Hybrid and electric vehicles brake use is significantly decreased, and the move towards more low rolling resistance tyres with harder compounds also reduces particulates. So we're already on the path to reducing those issues without further political involvement.
I doubt we'll be seeing performance cars on smaller brakes and harder tyres, but we may well be forced into cars that have those along with a lot less power than we'd like. daemon said:
The "plan" is to run the Passat for a long time, so TBH i dont really give a monkeys if diesels become very unpopular. I cant see fuel duty rising dramatically as that will impact haulage and public transport heavily, and they've never retrospectively changed the road tax (?) which is £20 a year on it.
Actually they did impose retrospective(ish) penal rates of VED in the 2006 Budget, but at the time the dreaded evil was carbon dioxide, so cars above 226g/km were hit by a £500 annual charge. Cue a massive ststorm, and a climbdown so that the penal rates only applied to new cars registered after the Budget. After that experience, I very much doubt they will repeat it.I share your view that you are pretty safe with a long term hold of a Euro 6 diesel car. We have two.
I've just changed my 3L BMW diesel for a 3L BMW petrol model. Mainly because this is my own money, and I can foresee the resale value of the diesel being adversely affected, whatever the realities of the actual pollution caused. Partly also because I am receptive to the new facts about diesels causing urban pollution i.e. the petrol is a 'cleaner' car.
Also, with a change of job, I am not doing the sort of motorway miles every week that I used to, where the diesel was comparatively a much more relaxing car to drive in terms of just getting from A to B. If I was in my previous job, I'd stick with diesel because it would make my business mileage much less stressful than petrol.
My personal view is that it's unfortunate for BMW that other manufacturers cheated on their tests, but this is more of a business practice issue than an environmental one. UK VW owners should be getting the same recompense that US owners are receiving, on the basis of VW having consciously misrepresented their diesels capabilities.
I am concerned about the environment, but to me the key concerns are (a) lack of investment in rail infrastructure (e.g. why does Richard Branson pocket millions in subsidies, when the previous franchisee was public, profitable, and had no shareholder rake-off?) (b) how modern supermarket retailing involves huge amounts of lorry transfers 'round the country (even if stuff is local, odds are it's had to move a couple of hundred miles to a distant mega fulfilment centre, and then back again) and (c) air travel not being taxed on a par with road travel and subsidised in a way that rail is not. I don't think any of these issues are simple to resolve, by the way, and I can see the poor old car owner being hit because they're an easy target - much easier than addressing the really complex issues.
Also, with a change of job, I am not doing the sort of motorway miles every week that I used to, where the diesel was comparatively a much more relaxing car to drive in terms of just getting from A to B. If I was in my previous job, I'd stick with diesel because it would make my business mileage much less stressful than petrol.
My personal view is that it's unfortunate for BMW that other manufacturers cheated on their tests, but this is more of a business practice issue than an environmental one. UK VW owners should be getting the same recompense that US owners are receiving, on the basis of VW having consciously misrepresented their diesels capabilities.
I am concerned about the environment, but to me the key concerns are (a) lack of investment in rail infrastructure (e.g. why does Richard Branson pocket millions in subsidies, when the previous franchisee was public, profitable, and had no shareholder rake-off?) (b) how modern supermarket retailing involves huge amounts of lorry transfers 'round the country (even if stuff is local, odds are it's had to move a couple of hundred miles to a distant mega fulfilment centre, and then back again) and (c) air travel not being taxed on a par with road travel and subsidised in a way that rail is not. I don't think any of these issues are simple to resolve, by the way, and I can see the poor old car owner being hit because they're an easy target - much easier than addressing the really complex issues.
Edited by msej449 on Friday 28th April 12:12
msej449 said:
I've just changed my 3L BMW diesel for a 3L BMW petrol model. Mainly because this is my own money, and I can foresee the resale value of the diesel being adversely affected, whatever the realities of the actual pollution caused. Partly also because I am receptive to the new facts about diesels causing urban pollution i.e. the petrol is a 'cleaner' car.
Also, with a change of job, I am not doing the sort of motorway miles every week that I used to, where the diesel was comparatively a much more relaxing car to drive in terms of just getting from A to B. If I was in my previous job, I'd stick with diesel because it would make my business mileage much less stressful than petrol.
My personal view is that it's unfortunate for BMW that other manufacturers cheated on their tests, but this is more of a business practice issue than an environmental one. UK VW owners should be getting the same recompense that US owners are receiving, on the basis of VW having consciously misrepresented their diesels capabilities.
I am concerned about the environment, but to me the key concerns are (a) lack of investment in rail infrastructure (e.g. why does Richard Branson pocket millions in subsidies, when the previous franchisee was public, profitable, and had no shareholder rake-off?) (b) how modern supermarket retailing involves huge amounts of lorry transfers 'round the country (even if stuff is local, odds are it's had to move a couple of hundred miles to a distant mega fulfilment centre, and then back again) and (c) air travel not being taxed on a par with road travel and subsidised in a way that rail is not. I don't think any of these issues are simple to resolve, by the way, and I can see the poor old car owner being hit because they're an easy target - much easier than addressing the really complex issues.
Nicely putAlso, with a change of job, I am not doing the sort of motorway miles every week that I used to, where the diesel was comparatively a much more relaxing car to drive in terms of just getting from A to B. If I was in my previous job, I'd stick with diesel because it would make my business mileage much less stressful than petrol.
My personal view is that it's unfortunate for BMW that other manufacturers cheated on their tests, but this is more of a business practice issue than an environmental one. UK VW owners should be getting the same recompense that US owners are receiving, on the basis of VW having consciously misrepresented their diesels capabilities.
I am concerned about the environment, but to me the key concerns are (a) lack of investment in rail infrastructure (e.g. why does Richard Branson pocket millions in subsidies, when the previous franchisee was public, profitable, and had no shareholder rake-off?) (b) how modern supermarket retailing involves huge amounts of lorry transfers 'round the country (even if stuff is local, odds are it's had to move a couple of hundred miles to a distant mega fulfilment centre, and then back again) and (c) air travel not being taxed on a par with road travel and subsidised in a way that rail is not. I don't think any of these issues are simple to resolve, by the way, and I can see the poor old car owner being hit because they're an easy target - much easier than addressing the really complex issues.
Edited by msej449 on Friday 28th April 12:12
msej449 said:
I've just changed my 3L BMW diesel for a 3L BMW petrol model. ....Partly also because I am receptive to the new facts about diesels causing urban pollution i.e. the petrol is a 'cleaner' car.
......
I am concerned about the environment, but to me the key concerns are
Genuine question, why not a 330e?......
I am concerned about the environment, but to me the key concerns are
Edited by msej449 on Friday 28th April 12:12
Evanivitch said:
msej449 said:
I've just changed my 3L BMW diesel for a 3L BMW petrol model. ....Partly also because I am receptive to the new facts about diesels causing urban pollution i.e. the petrol is a 'cleaner' car.
......
I am concerned about the environment, but to me the key concerns are
Genuine question, why not a 330e?......
I am concerned about the environment, but to me the key concerns are
Edited by msej449 on Friday 28th April 12:12
I don't think it's better than that. Cheap company car tax though.
msej449 said:
I've just changed my 3L BMW diesel for a 3L BMW petrol model. Mainly because this is my own money, and I can foresee the resale value of the diesel being adversely affected, whatever the realities of the actual pollution caused. Partly also because I am receptive to the new facts about diesels causing urban pollution i.e. the petrol is a 'cleaner' car.
Also, with a change of job, I am not doing the sort of motorway miles every week that I used to, where the diesel was comparatively a much more relaxing car to drive in terms of just getting from A to B. If I was in my previous job, I'd stick with diesel because it would make my business mileage much less stressful than petrol.
My personal view is that it's unfortunate for BMW that other manufacturers cheated on their tests, but this is more of a business practice issue than an environmental one. UK VW owners should be getting the same recompense that US owners are receiving, on the basis of VW having consciously misrepresented their diesels capabilities.
I am concerned about the environment, but to me the key concerns are (a) lack of investment in rail infrastructure (e.g. why does Richard Branson pocket millions in subsidies, when the previous franchisee was public, profitable, and had no shareholder rake-off?) (b) how modern supermarket retailing involves huge amounts of lorry transfers 'round the country (even if stuff is local, odds are it's had to move a couple of hundred miles to a distant mega fulfilment centre, and then back again) and (c) air travel not being taxed on a par with road travel and subsidised in a way that rail is not. I don't think any of these issues are simple to resolve, by the way, and I can see the poor old car owner being hit because they're an easy target - much easier than addressing the really complex issues.
What 'new facts about diesels'? There are no new facts, nothing has changed technically other than newer diesels are cleaner and less polluting than old. Also, with a change of job, I am not doing the sort of motorway miles every week that I used to, where the diesel was comparatively a much more relaxing car to drive in terms of just getting from A to B. If I was in my previous job, I'd stick with diesel because it would make my business mileage much less stressful than petrol.
My personal view is that it's unfortunate for BMW that other manufacturers cheated on their tests, but this is more of a business practice issue than an environmental one. UK VW owners should be getting the same recompense that US owners are receiving, on the basis of VW having consciously misrepresented their diesels capabilities.
I am concerned about the environment, but to me the key concerns are (a) lack of investment in rail infrastructure (e.g. why does Richard Branson pocket millions in subsidies, when the previous franchisee was public, profitable, and had no shareholder rake-off?) (b) how modern supermarket retailing involves huge amounts of lorry transfers 'round the country (even if stuff is local, odds are it's had to move a couple of hundred miles to a distant mega fulfilment centre, and then back again) and (c) air travel not being taxed on a par with road travel and subsidised in a way that rail is not. I don't think any of these issues are simple to resolve, by the way, and I can see the poor old car owner being hit because they're an easy target - much easier than addressing the really complex issues.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 28th April 12:12
Nor has the VW fiasco anything to do with the diesel witch hunt, which is simply a tactical change to justify even more taxes being levied.
It won't be long before petrol is the killer (again) and change will again be encouraged, to hybrids and EVs. That'll be another opportunity to raise tax somewhere.
REALIST123 said:
msej449 said:
I've just changed my 3L BMW diesel for a 3L BMW petrol model. Mainly because this is my own money, and I can foresee the resale value of the diesel being adversely affected, whatever the realities of the actual pollution caused. Partly also because I am receptive to the new facts about diesels causing urban pollution i.e. the petrol is a 'cleaner' car.
Also, with a change of job, I am not doing the sort of motorway miles every week that I used to, where the diesel was comparatively a much more relaxing car to drive in terms of just getting from A to B. If I was in my previous job, I'd stick with diesel because it would make my business mileage much less stressful than petrol.
My personal view is that it's unfortunate for BMW that other manufacturers cheated on their tests, but this is more of a business practice issue than an environmental one. UK VW owners should be getting the same recompense that US owners are receiving, on the basis of VW having consciously misrepresented their diesels capabilities.
I am concerned about the environment, but to me the key concerns are (a) lack of investment in rail infrastructure (e.g. why does Richard Branson pocket millions in subsidies, when the previous franchisee was public, profitable, and had no shareholder rake-off?) (b) how modern supermarket retailing involves huge amounts of lorry transfers 'round the country (even if stuff is local, odds are it's had to move a couple of hundred miles to a distant mega fulfilment centre, and then back again) and (c) air travel not being taxed on a par with road travel and subsidised in a way that rail is not. I don't think any of these issues are simple to resolve, by the way, and I can see the poor old car owner being hit because they're an easy target - much easier than addressing the really complex issues.
What 'new facts about diesels'? There are no new facts, nothing has changed technically other than newer diesels are cleaner and less polluting than old. Also, with a change of job, I am not doing the sort of motorway miles every week that I used to, where the diesel was comparatively a much more relaxing car to drive in terms of just getting from A to B. If I was in my previous job, I'd stick with diesel because it would make my business mileage much less stressful than petrol.
My personal view is that it's unfortunate for BMW that other manufacturers cheated on their tests, but this is more of a business practice issue than an environmental one. UK VW owners should be getting the same recompense that US owners are receiving, on the basis of VW having consciously misrepresented their diesels capabilities.
I am concerned about the environment, but to me the key concerns are (a) lack of investment in rail infrastructure (e.g. why does Richard Branson pocket millions in subsidies, when the previous franchisee was public, profitable, and had no shareholder rake-off?) (b) how modern supermarket retailing involves huge amounts of lorry transfers 'round the country (even if stuff is local, odds are it's had to move a couple of hundred miles to a distant mega fulfilment centre, and then back again) and (c) air travel not being taxed on a par with road travel and subsidised in a way that rail is not. I don't think any of these issues are simple to resolve, by the way, and I can see the poor old car owner being hit because they're an easy target - much easier than addressing the really complex issues.
Edited by msej449 on Friday 28th April 12:12
Nor has the VW fiasco anything to do with the diesel witch hunt, which is simply a tactical change to justify even more taxes being levied.
It won't be long before petrol is the killer (again) and change will again be encouraged, to hybrids and EVs. That'll be another opportunity to raise tax somewhere.
Anti diesel sentiment is being whipped up in the press, so that the government can be seen to "react" to public opinion whilst conveniently rogering the motorist with punitive taxes.
I guess me buying a diesel at this stage is ultimately a bit of a gamble - IF they retrospectively increase road tax ridiculously for example (which i doubt they will), but i'm not expecting the arse to drop completely out of values, and likewise relatively speaking i havent paid a fortune for it, and i'd be happy to keep it for an extended period rather than give it away.
Interesting topic. Just about to buy a 5 series for daily driving. My commute is going to be walkable from July, so i've decided on a 535i touring. But I can;t find one, and realise this will be difficult, so may have to settle on a saloon.
OR I can go for a 535d touring. Plenty about, appear slightly cheaper (year for year), better choice of colours & options (though I want black really). Ive had a 530d touring before(E61) and liked it, but really did fancy petrol this time, and don;t want to be stuck with a bid deisel in 2 years that I can;t sell!
Do I just wait for a 535i touring, or a 535i and a top box?
OR I can go for a 535d touring. Plenty about, appear slightly cheaper (year for year), better choice of colours & options (though I want black really). Ive had a 530d touring before(E61) and liked it, but really did fancy petrol this time, and don;t want to be stuck with a bid deisel in 2 years that I can;t sell!
Do I just wait for a 535i touring, or a 535i and a top box?
Timbo_S2 said:
Interesting topic. Just about to buy a 5 series for daily driving. My commute is going to be walkable from July, so i've decided on a 535i touring. But I can;t find one, and realise this will be difficult, so may have to settle on a saloon.
OR I can go for a 535d touring. Plenty about, appear slightly cheaper (year for year), better choice of colours & options (though I want black really). Ive had a 530d touring before(E61) and liked it, but really did fancy petrol this time, and don;t want to be stuck with a bid deisel in 2 years that I can;t sell!
Do I just wait for a 535i touring, or a 535i and a top box?
IME mid engined petrol BMW estates are quite rare - people who want an estate tend to want to do a fair amount of miles, thus gravitate towards a diesel.OR I can go for a 535d touring. Plenty about, appear slightly cheaper (year for year), better choice of colours & options (though I want black really). Ive had a 530d touring before(E61) and liked it, but really did fancy petrol this time, and don;t want to be stuck with a bid deisel in 2 years that I can;t sell!
Do I just wait for a 535i touring, or a 535i and a top box?
Whats your budget?
Timbo_S2 said:
Interesting topic. Just about to buy a 5 series for daily driving. My commute is going to be walkable from July, so i've decided on a 535i touring. But I can;t find one, and realise this will be difficult, so may have to settle on a saloon.
OR I can go for a 535d touring. Plenty about, appear slightly cheaper (year for year), better choice of colours & options (though I want black really). Ive had a 530d touring before(E61) and liked it, but really did fancy petrol this time, and don;t want to be stuck with a bid deisel in 2 years that I can;t sell!
Do I just wait for a 535i touring, or a 535i and a top box?
I haven't driven a 535i, but have driven a 640i with the same engine and thought it was pretty underwhelming. It was smooth though. The 640d felt a lot more responsive. So in your shoes I'd certainly go for the 535d.OR I can go for a 535d touring. Plenty about, appear slightly cheaper (year for year), better choice of colours & options (though I want black really). Ive had a 530d touring before(E61) and liked it, but really did fancy petrol this time, and don;t want to be stuck with a bid deisel in 2 years that I can;t sell!
Do I just wait for a 535i touring, or a 535i and a top box?
If you can't find a 535i to try, see if you can drive a 640i to see how the engine copes with a car of that weight.
Timbo_S2 said:
daemon said:
IME mid engined petrol BMW estates are quite rare - people who want an estate tend to want to do a fair amount of miles, thus gravitate towards a diesel.
Whats your budget?
About £30k. Ideally less.Whats your budget?
This is the closest....
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...
What about PCPing a new one then buying it outright at the end of term?
REALIST123 said:
What 'new facts about diesels'? There are no new facts
1. That more than one multinational vendor actively falsified the diesel emission output figures for their vehicles. 2. That the levels of urban air pollutants specific to diesel emissions are a. much higher than previously thought and 3. far more deleterious to people's health than previously realised. Don't get me wrong, I agree that modern Euro6 cars are a huge improvement on previous models; most of the pollution in urban areas is coming from lorries and vans, not passenger cars; for high mileage business driver diesel makes sense; and having been misled once, how can we be sure we have all the facts now?
msej449 said:
REALIST123 said:
What 'new facts about diesels'? There are no new facts
1. That more than one multinational vendor actively falsified the diesel emission output figures for their vehicles. 2. That the levels of urban air pollutants specific to diesel emissions are a. much higher than previously thought and 3. far more deleterious to people's health than previously realised. Don't get me wrong, I agree that modern Euro6 cars are a huge improvement on previous models; most of the pollution in urban areas is coming from lorries and vans, not passenger cars; for high mileage business driver diesel makes sense; and having been misled once, how can we be sure we have all the facts now?
Its an evolving process. Granted, the focus is on diesels now (because diesel owners are being set up as an easy revenue target) but does anyone believe we can just continue burning fossil fuels at the rate we do?
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