E46 M3 SMG - Suitable Track / Weekend Toy?

E46 M3 SMG - Suitable Track / Weekend Toy?

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giblet

Original Poster:

8,824 posts

176 months

Tuesday 25th April 2017
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Evening folks. I recently got back from a week long European roadtrip with a few mates. Part of the trip involved visiting the Nurburgring for the first time where I had a go for a few laps with my Evo X.

I spotted a few different E46 M3s in the car park whilst we were out there and now I'm considering swapping the X for a M3 to run alongside a sensible daily. As much as I love the Evo it's getting a bit silly running a 480 bhp car on a daily basis when I'm usually stuck in traffic when commuting etc. It's also a bit heavy for track use and I'm wanting to get to some more track days this year.

The E46 M3 has been on my list of cars to own for quite some time. Does anyone run a SMG car on track? How do they hold up? I've read up on the known issues like the SMG niggles, cracked boot floors etc.

My budget is around £12-14k and I'd want to lose some weight by removing the rear seats and other pointless creature comforts like air con and replacing the front seats with something more suitable. Would I be better off finding a car that has already been fettled for track use?

SebringMan

1,773 posts

185 months

Wednesday 26th April 2017
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Not many people do run the SMG on track due to the potential issues over the manual. Although understanding the issues is alot easier than simply pointing at it and going "that's bad".

I do know of a couple of people who do. While the pumps can go it's generally the motor itself which is at fault and they are substantially cheaper than a new pump from BMW or even a secondhand motor.

I *may* be seeing the bloke again with the SMG'd track car next week when I head down to DN17. Last year his gearbox was not the problem ; I understand it hasn't really been for him. But his brakes were ; he cracked a brake disc at the event and that was on a BBK to add insult to injury in a fully stripped out track car.

After building a track car (albeit a Pug 205) years ago I'd try to find a car that has been built. But ensure it has been built right. I know that is obvious but it's surprising how many cars are not.

giblet

Original Poster:

8,824 posts

176 months

Wednesday 26th April 2017
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My Evo X has a SST box but with rebuilt internals and an aftermarket cooling setup. Didn't have any issues when pressing on at the track. I bought it with the work already done, way cheaper on the wallet in comparison. Is it possible to upgrade the pump and other components in the SMG box?

I don't think I would do more than 5 or 6 track days a year in it, it would probably be used more on early morning drives on weekends. It wouldn't be a proper track car build either, just the usual stuff of brakes, suspension, exhaust/intake and then losing some weight.

Would be interesting to hear what the chap you mentioned has to say about the SMG box on track. From what I've read the SMG is a very marmite gearbox. Having driven a variety of auto/CVT/twin clutch cars I'm interested in seeing how the SMG compares. It can't be that bad surely!

I have this horrible habit of changing cars frequently and I think I'm almost set on switching to an E46 M3 in the next few months.

Gruber

6,313 posts

213 months

Thursday 27th April 2017
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There are plenty of folks who have regularly tracked e46 CSLs - all of which have the SMG box. In itself, it's not a problem. Indeed, I'd go so far as to say that the SMG box is better suited to track and fast road use than to every day, around town driving.

My last CS needed a new SMG pump - a big bill - so go in with your eyes open. But I wouldn't discount an SMG'd car.

And just be aware that it is a gearbox that takes a little getting used to. It will most likely feel a bit awkward when you set out on your first test drive.


Gouki

352 posts

183 months

Thursday 27th April 2017
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I've run a e36 and then an e46 m3 both manuals for almost five years as track cars. During that time I've seen probably more E46 SMG variants on track than manuals, and I've not heard about any issues these owners have had. However from what I read it's probably worth getting the SMG software updated to the CSL programme. Search for m3carbon on m3cutters and he will be able to do this for you, this allows rev matching on down shifts and possibly some other benefits.

Both M3s have been low on consumable usage when weight has been reduced (RS29 pads and Michelin PSS) and have been very reliable both on track and to and from the venues. PM me if you've got any further questions. Expect a subframe repair and a potential diff rebuild at some point.

Gouki

352 posts

183 months

Thursday 27th April 2017
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Also I might add, I was at brands hatch Indy last week with a friend in a 400bhp EVO running R888s and he could have lapped me in a 15 minute session. The tyres might account for an improved cornering G but he would just pull away on the straights with the weight and power advantage. It was a dry day.

giblet

Original Poster:

8,824 posts

176 months

Thursday 27th April 2017
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Cheers for the info chaps. I figured if the SMG box was good enough for the CSL then it would be fine for the regular M3.

I'm hoping to find a car with the usual faults already sorted. Need to get a test drive in one first and see if I even like it.

With regards to grunt I have no doubt that my Evo would probably outgun an M3 but I'm growing bored of the Evo and surely there is something fun about a revvy NA engine.

I've signed up to cutters to keep an eye on the sale section. Any other forums I should look at?

SebringMan

1,773 posts

185 months

Friday 28th April 2017
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Keep yours eyes open everywhere.

Depending on your budget there is alot of rubbish out there:

Here's my experience ; they did seem a little cheaper a year ago too:

https://theleylandlegends.wordpress.com/2017/03/11...

https://theleylandlegends.wordpress.com/2017/03/15...

giblet

Original Poster:

8,824 posts

176 months

Friday 28th April 2017
quotequote all
SebringMan said:
Keep yours eyes open everywhere.

Depending on your budget there is alot of rubbish out there:

Here's my experience ; they did seem a little cheaper a year ago too:

https://theleylandlegends.wordpress.com/2017/03/11...

https://theleylandlegends.wordpress.com/2017/03/15...
Good write up, enjoyed reading it. Can you make the whole thing easier by just selling me yours?

rstoughy

76 posts

207 months

Friday 28th April 2017
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SebringMan said:
Not many people do run the SMG on track due to the potential issues over the manual. Although understanding the issues is alot easier than simply pointing at it and going "that's bad".

I do know of a couple of people who do. While the pumps can go it's generally the motor itself which is at fault and they are substantially cheaper than a new pump from BMW or even a secondhand motor.

I *may* be seeing the bloke again with the SMG'd track car next week when I head down to DN17. Last year his gearbox was not the problem ; I understand it hasn't really been for him. But his brakes were ; he cracked a brake disc at the event and that was on a BBK to add insult to injury in a fully stripped out track car.

After building a track car (albeit a Pug 205) years ago I'd try to find a car that has been built. But ensure it has been built right. I know that is obvious but it's surprising how many cars are not.
Ah that was me last year at DN16. 6 laps and the bloody disc split frown

I can only speak from experience but my race car is SMG and I also have a CSL which is SMG. I've had a few yellow cogs but they have been attributed to launching over kerbs on the track but when cleared all has been fine.
Had more issues with wheel speed sensors and bonnet catches causing errors.

Find the right car and don't get hung up too much on what box it has.
SMG is great on track you just have to be brave enough to give it a go wink

SebringMan

1,773 posts

185 months

Saturday 29th April 2017
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giblet said:
Good write up, enjoyed reading it. Can you make the whole thing easier by just selling me yours?
Haha! If you asked me a week ago I may have said yes (Reinforced the RACP with new bushes, 2 new Michelins on the front and a new oil cooler ; ouch!) ! But let me have a think.

rstoughy said:
Ah that was me last year at DN16. 6 laps and the bloody disc split frown

I can only speak from experience but my race car is SMG and I also have a CSL which is SMG. I've had a few yellow cogs but they have been attributed to launching over kerbs on the track but when cleared all has been fine.
Had more issues with wheel speed sensors and bonnet catches causing errors.

Find the right car and don't get hung up too much on what box it has.
SMG is great on track you just have to be brave enough to give it a go wink
Aha! What a small world!

Will you be going this year? My boot is full of crap at the moment getting ready for DN17.

rstoughy

76 posts

207 months

Sunday 30th April 2017
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No I'm afraid not. 1st year in 6 that I've not gone to a dn event. They all seem to clash with my races this year so it's a shame.
Just got to hope next year there is more than a few days between both and that way I can get back over.

Hope you have a blast beer

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Tuesday 2nd May 2017
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Personally I found the track was where the SMG's slight clumsiness mattered least. The one I drove also had the CSL software.

Hope you find one. I think they're a great M3 and the S54 is a peach of an engine. I hope to get one myself next year, assuming prices don't get too silly and I can find one within budget. smile

SebringMan

1,773 posts

185 months

Wednesday 3rd May 2017
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e21Mark said:
Personally I found the track was where the SMG's slight clumsiness mattered least. The one I drove also had the CSL software.

Hope you find one. I think they're a great M3 and the S54 is a peach of an engine. I hope to get one myself next year, assuming prices don't get too silly and I can find one within budget. smile
The CSL software makes the biggest difference IMHO. If I had it on from the beginning I would have got used to the 'box far faster than I did.

Mine was OK before I did mine but I did used to heel and toe on downchanges so as to make them faster and smoother ; mainly smoothness.

Before I used to drive in S5 in manual (hardest mode with DSC still on) and S2 or 3 in auto. Now I do S2 for auto and S4 otherwise. S5 is a bit too brutal in some cases on the road but it is superb on track. Very quick changes when you have the revs.

Yup, I loved the car around the 'ring. I even tried S4 Auto! I am not the world's best driver but it was another way to tackle a very wet Nurburgring. I also managed to put in my quickest time this way and look more at the lines etc.




I didn't realise you were looking for one Mark!

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Wednesday 3rd May 2017
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I'm a little way off yet. I just spent a nice e46 M3 budget on my e30! weeping

Cheburator mk2

2,973 posts

198 months

Thursday 4th May 2017
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e21Mark said:
I'm a little way off yet. I just spent a nice e46 M3 budget on my e30! weeping
Spare a thought for a mate with a F430, who just had £13.5k bill land on his doorstep. The car has done 32k miles with a FFSH... I paid £8k for 87k 03 reg fully loaded Carbon Black with Caramel and fully historied M3 SMG in Feb this year... Puts things in perspective...

Back to E46 M3 SMG - for track work SMG is the way forward. No missed shifts, no chance to buzz the engine either, no chance for rear lock up on the down change (provided CSL software was installed). Have driven/owned both manuals and SMGs - the SMG is more anodyne, but for the reasons above, it wins.

giblet

Original Poster:

8,824 posts

176 months

Thursday 4th May 2017
quotequote all
Cheers for the feedback folks, I think this is the first time where I've asked around for feedback on a car and had nothing but positive responses!

I'll be getting my Evo ready for sale soon, hopefully it won't take long to sell. Then I can start the search for the M3 and a sensible daily driver.

Sea Demon

1,156 posts

212 months

Monday 15th May 2017
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If you are looking for an M3 at the moment, I'm about to sell my 2002 coupe in titanium silver 2 prev owners - boot floor replaced by BMW less than 5k miles ago & has had a new SMG pump (receipt for £2k) - 98k miles, CSL software upgrade, CSL replica wheels, MOT'd til Jan 2018.

Literally cleaned it yesterday to put it up for sale later today - if your interested drop me a message, if your not then don't biggrin

Edited by Sea Demon on Monday 15th May 14:44