What is it with the "lard a*se" 4 Series Convertible?
Discussion
My 24 year old son's looking for an upgrade from his 2010 Mini Cooper. Fancied a BMW convertible so test drove 220d MSport (noisy engine, "bobbly" ride) and 420d MSport Convertibles. He quite liked the 420d a few weeks back (less noise, better damping) and so we looked at one to buy today.
I drove it and called it a "lard arsed lump of lard" which quite upset him. My last BMW was an E46 330ci MSport Convertible which I remember as quick and fun to drive. To me, the 420d was just an A to B car, nothing special, designed to be seen posing in and that's it. That it has 250kg of roof mechanism no doubt accounts for my feelings.
So, what "sporty" convertible or coupe of any make is an alternative? He's 6' 4" 18st. Tried a Fiat 124 the other day. Just about fitted but couldn't move! His current mini is a surprisingly spacious car for a tall person. Maybe he should try an upgrade there?
Audi are crap now, Merc worse. French - er...no. Japan has nothing of interest. Mustang? NCAP 2 stars - maybe not. He has £23-25k to spend on a car still in warranty. Ideally 2 years old. There just seems to be a void for what he's after?
Any ideas what to try?
I had the 435i convertible for 6 weeks. Bloody awful wobbly plastic piece of crap. Felt like it's arse weighed a tonne on its own. Quick'ish in a straight line but felt awful to drive.
Complete cheap imitation of quality (good tech though).
Swapped for a 911 3.8s gen 2. Brilliant drive, no tech and decent quality.
Complete cheap imitation of quality (good tech though).
Swapped for a 911 3.8s gen 2. Brilliant drive, no tech and decent quality.
Fox- said:
It's a 420d, if you wanted a sporty convertible why on earth would you look at the 2 litre diesel? It's a motorway cruising engine not a sporty engine.
Well, even a little sportiness would be nice. Why put a diesel engine in these? Used to be the 3 series cab HAD to be petrol.The 2.0d isn't that far behind the 6.9sec 0-60 of my E46 330ci, but delivery is blahhhhhhhh....
428i would be far better perhaps, but insurance... resale... everyone is still after a diesel - brainwashed!!
My 981 Cayman returned 44mpg on a run down the M1 earlier. Diesel... pah!
So you're suggesting that a 3 litre straight 6 petrol is more fun to drive than a 5 banger diesel?
Probably not thte most shocked I've rever been if I'm honest.
We've got a 430i Cab on hire out here in the US at the moment, and no real complaints other than a slightly dull engine note. Probably not as sharp as my 1 Series, but then I'm not sure I was expecting it to be.
Probably not thte most shocked I've rever been if I'm honest.
We've got a 430i Cab on hire out here in the US at the moment, and no real complaints other than a slightly dull engine note. Probably not as sharp as my 1 Series, but then I'm not sure I was expecting it to be.
bodhi said:
So you're suggesting that a 3 litre straight 6 petrol is more fun to drive than a 5 banger diesel?
Probably not thte most shocked I've rever been if I'm honest.
We've got a 430i Cab on hire out here in the US at the moment, and no real complaints other than a slightly dull engine note. Probably not as sharp as my 1 Series, but then I'm not sure I was expecting it to be.
Don't you mean 4 pot?Probably not thte most shocked I've rever been if I'm honest.
We've got a 430i Cab on hire out here in the US at the moment, and no real complaints other than a slightly dull engine note. Probably not as sharp as my 1 Series, but then I'm not sure I was expecting it to be.
In regards to the 4 series 'vert I am not surprised, folding hardtops are heavy with motors etc. to make it all work as expected. As for the x20d engine ultimately it is still the most common easy to get engine for people that want a reasonable turn of pace with on paper good emissions and MPG.
I do not think the 4 series is bad, but in regards to the interior it is still only a 3 series interior altered slightly in places. To me the M3/M4 have the same shortcomings in that you have to spend a lot to make the interior feel a bit more plush.
In regards to ride then big wheels etc. will always reduce ride quality without serious intervention on the suspension front.
For me I would probably at minimum go 6pot diesel or at a push the 6 pot petrols.
If he really wants a 'vert then that could be a problem (as for the MX5/124 these will always be small), for me if desires a BMW that much then get a m135i/m140i....IMO. RWD Hot hatch is going to be doomed soon!
Are you buying the car or your son?? Is it his choice on what he wants? Does he like the 420d convertible?
Yes its heavy, yes its a diesel and its not supposed to be a sports car to thrash round the twisties. These are built more of a motorway cruiser.
The 2 Series has the material roof which should make it lighter and maybe more fun?
The Merc will probably a tad expensive. Why not the Ford Mustang? Look fantastic and come in V8 form.
Yes its heavy, yes its a diesel and its not supposed to be a sports car to thrash round the twisties. These are built more of a motorway cruiser.
The 2 Series has the material roof which should make it lighter and maybe more fun?
The Merc will probably a tad expensive. Why not the Ford Mustang? Look fantastic and come in V8 form.
why does he not buy a E46 330 convertible then?
Nice to drive, a little bit different to the new stuff. No DPF / turbo thingies.
Depreciation will be limited. Petrol, maintenance and RFL will cost more but would be offset by minimal depreciation.
And while it will not feel new, it should feel special!
I know which one I would buy. And yes, my better half has had the same E46 330 for 8 years now, with no plans to change (I hope).
Nice to drive, a little bit different to the new stuff. No DPF / turbo thingies.
Depreciation will be limited. Petrol, maintenance and RFL will cost more but would be offset by minimal depreciation.
And while it will not feel new, it should feel special!
I know which one I would buy. And yes, my better half has had the same E46 330 for 8 years now, with no plans to change (I hope).
I would agree with the E46 suggestion, but for modernity, I'd also say E93.
Much more steering feel and from around 2009 you could get a 335i, nice sound, sporty performance and if you're going auto then you can get the much more exciting DCT gearbox, as per example attached.
save your money, for the extra fuel and getting (or extending) a warranty
Just an example
http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/3-Series/3.0-335i-M-Spor...
Much more steering feel and from around 2009 you could get a 335i, nice sound, sporty performance and if you're going auto then you can get the much more exciting DCT gearbox, as per example attached.
save your money, for the extra fuel and getting (or extending) a warranty
Just an example
http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/3-Series/3.0-335i-M-Spor...
Ninja59 said:
Don't you mean 4 pot?
In regards to the 4 series 'vert I am not surprised, folding hardtops are heavy with motors etc. to make it all work as expected. As for the x20d engine ultimately it is still the most common easy to get engine for people that want a reasonable turn of pace with on paper good emissions and MPG.
I do not think the 4 series is bad, but in regards to the interior it is still only a 3 series interior altered slightly in places. To me the M3/M4 have the same shortcomings in that you have to spend a lot to make the interior feel a bit more plush.
In regards to ride then big wheels etc. will always reduce ride quality without serious intervention on the suspension front.
For me I would probably at minimum go 6pot diesel or at a push the 6 pot petrols.
If he really wants a 'vert then that could be a problem (as for the MX5/124 these will always be small), for me if desires a BMW that much then get a m135i/m140i....IMO. RWD Hot hatch is going to be doomed soon!
I did indeed In regards to the 4 series 'vert I am not surprised, folding hardtops are heavy with motors etc. to make it all work as expected. As for the x20d engine ultimately it is still the most common easy to get engine for people that want a reasonable turn of pace with on paper good emissions and MPG.
I do not think the 4 series is bad, but in regards to the interior it is still only a 3 series interior altered slightly in places. To me the M3/M4 have the same shortcomings in that you have to spend a lot to make the interior feel a bit more plush.
In regards to ride then big wheels etc. will always reduce ride quality without serious intervention on the suspension front.
For me I would probably at minimum go 6pot diesel or at a push the 6 pot petrols.
If he really wants a 'vert then that could be a problem (as for the MX5/124 these will always be small), for me if desires a BMW that much then get a m135i/m140i....IMO. RWD Hot hatch is going to be doomed soon!
I will blame fat jet lagged thumbs. Must admit the 430I has been perfect for the holiday we've been on. Lots of cruising round Beverley Hills with the top down, great on the drive over to Vegas, and not out of its depth at all in the twisties up in the hills of LA.
It's clearly more of a cruiser than my 1 Series, but it's pretty entertaining for one.
SidewaysSi said:
No new BMW is really a sports car so expecting a sharp drive in any is probably expecting a bit much.
Get a Lotus Elise and be done. Nothing will match it for the price.
Can't agree with that, there are plenty of sporty BMWs and they are all sharp drives in comparison to their contemporaries. A 2 Gran Tourer us nicer to drive than a Zafira, a 3 nicer than a Mondeo, a 5 nicer than a A6. Driving dynamics are the point of them. Get a Lotus Elise and be done. Nothing will match it for the price.
Compare that 420d to an Audi or Mercedes equivalent and I doubt you'll find a much better experience. I think the problems lie with the expectations.
Also really don't understand the criticism of the 3/4 series interior. It's a suitable step up from a Ford, Vauxhall or Peugeot, but not has nice as as a 5 series, E Class, A6, Bentley etc. Fit and finish is quite good, tech is great and materials are fine.
Mike335i said:
SidewaysSi said:
No new BMW is really a sports car so expecting a sharp drive in any is probably expecting a bit much.
Get a Lotus Elise and be done. Nothing will match it for the price.
Can't agree with that, there are plenty of sporty BMWs and they are all sharp drives in comparison to their contemporaries. A 2 Gran Tourer us nicer to drive than a Zafira, a 3 nicer than a Mondeo, a 5 nicer than a A6. Driving dynamics are the point of them. Get a Lotus Elise and be done. Nothing will match it for the price.
Compare that 420d to an Audi or Mercedes equivalent and I doubt you'll find a much better experience. I think the problems lie with the expectations.
Also really don't understand the criticism of the 3/4 series interior. It's a suitable step up from a Ford, Vauxhall or Peugeot, but not has nice as as a 5 series, E Class, A6, Bentley etc. Fit and finish is quite good, tech is great and materials are fine.
A "sports car" appreciatively is different, I'd have to turn to my E46 M3 for anything like that, but it wasn't this level of involvement "son of OP" wanted anyway. He just wanted something fun and which could go topless.
An Elise it won't be, but I can see why a little Mini fits that bill.
Mike335i said:
Also really don't understand the criticism of the 3/4 series interior. It's a suitable step up from a Ford, Vauxhall or Peugeot, but not has nice as as a 5 series, E Class, A6, Bentley etc. Fit and finish is quite good, tech is great and materials are fine.
The criticism comes from the fact that the interior in the current 3/4 series is still as dull/bland as the previous E9x generation interior, Bmw's aren't renowned for having good interiors in fairness though when compared to its German rivals.cerb4.5lee said:
The criticism comes from the fact that the interior in the current 3/4 series is still as dull/bland as the previous E9x generation interior, Bmw's aren't renowned for having good interiors in fairness though when compared to its German rivals.
They don't have the reputation of Audi is suppose and I reckon it must be very spec dependant as I find my e90 I lovely place to be. I concede that a basic one is a bit bland though. Maybe I'm just a little weary of the hyperbole that gets spouted out. Cars look "horrific", "disgusting" and make people "feel sick". Some are "terrible" to drive and have "crap" interiors when in reality, virtually all cars are perfectly decent these days, they just don't appeal on some aspects.
It seems that if something isn't the best, they are automatically consigned to being awful. Have we all really become that competitive?
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