130i........doesn't feel as fast as it should?
Discussion
Shaoxter said:
What's with the weird tax thing? Thought all the years had the same engine (more or less)
Who knows? It was a budget thing! Band K, L and M all paid the same up until 23 March 2006 (currently £305 pa).
After that date Band L now costs £520 pa and Band M costs £535 pa.
Then IIRC BMW changed the "35i" engine to get it into a lower tax band, which is presumably why 2007 on models cost less.
VerySideways said:
It's not a semi-auto, it's a conventional (proper) automatic gearbox. 6 speed ZF with a torque converter.
And it's very good actually, even manages better mpg on the motorway than the manual due to longer gearing in top.
It's not up to the standard of the more modern 8 speed ZF but it's still a great gearbox, and if you spend a lot of time in traffic then it's certainly preferable to the manual and the clutch pedal.
The only real "gotcha" is the road tax;
-> March 2006, around £285 p.a.
Late March 06 -> mid 07, around £500 p.a.
Mid 07 -> about £260 p.a.
Great cars. I had the manual 130i for 4 years, my mum had the auto 130i for 5+ years and now has an M135i (auto).
Thanks for the advice!And it's very good actually, even manages better mpg on the motorway than the manual due to longer gearing in top.
It's not up to the standard of the more modern 8 speed ZF but it's still a great gearbox, and if you spend a lot of time in traffic then it's certainly preferable to the manual and the clutch pedal.
The only real "gotcha" is the road tax;
-> March 2006, around £285 p.a.
Late March 06 -> mid 07, around £500 p.a.
Mid 07 -> about £260 p.a.
Great cars. I had the manual 130i for 4 years, my mum had the auto 130i for 5+ years and now has an M135i (auto).
How "eager" should a 130i be compared to a Civic EP3(or similar) when it hits the vanos/vtec point?
Terrible question I know just don't know how to word it better.
My 130 just doesn't feel like it revs out that well, feels like I'm wringing it's neck rather than it pulling up to the redline.
While my crusty old Civic (and an even crustier Corolla T sport) pull so well.
The BMW is all up to date with servicing etc and previous owners seemed to have done everything properly.
Terrible question I know just don't know how to word it better.
My 130 just doesn't feel like it revs out that well, feels like I'm wringing it's neck rather than it pulling up to the redline.
While my crusty old Civic (and an even crustier Corolla T sport) pull so well.
The BMW is all up to date with servicing etc and previous owners seemed to have done everything properly.
Shaoxter said:
The auto box (not semi auto, even if it has paddles/buttons) is nice and smooth, but I'm not sure it suits a small NA hot hatch unless you're sitting in heavy traffic all day.
Indeed. Wouldn’t dream of buying 130i with auto box myself, it’s just not what it’s all about.
DRCAGE said:
How "eager" should a 130i be compared to a Civic EP3(or similar) when it hits the vanos/vtec point?
Terrible question I know just don't know how to word it better.
My 130 just doesn't feel like it revs out that well, feels like I'm wringing it's neck rather than it pulling up to the redline.
While my crusty old Civic (and an even crustier Corolla T sport) pull so well.
The BMW is all up to date with servicing etc and previous owners seemed to have done everything properly.
It has a less dramatic switchover than vtec but its still noticable over 4k.Terrible question I know just don't know how to word it better.
My 130 just doesn't feel like it revs out that well, feels like I'm wringing it's neck rather than it pulling up to the redline.
While my crusty old Civic (and an even crustier Corolla T sport) pull so well.
The BMW is all up to date with servicing etc and previous owners seemed to have done everything properly.
See if you can read any codes off the ECU and have a look at the vanos solenoids. They can be broken or gunged up.
DRCAGE said:
How "eager" should a 130i be compared to a Civic EP3(or similar) when it hits the vanos/vtec point?
The 130i will pull a lot harder between 2k and 4k than the Civic Type R, but when the Civic comes on cam the step change makes it "feel" fast.It's not faster than the 130i (my wife had a Civic Type R a few years back when i had my 130i) but because the N52 pulls in such a linear fashion you don't get that sensation like you do with a VTEC engine (or an old fashioned turbo!).
Something else to consider is that the BMW service schedule doesn't change the air filter very often, every 3rd oil service IIRC, but a fresh air filter at EVERY oil service will cost you an extra £20 a time and is so worth it. The stock air filter flows just as well as a K&N type filter when it's new, but by 60k miles (assuming roughly 20k per oil service) it's flowing very poorly. Go get a new OEM air filter and stick that in. It'll take you less than 10 minutes to do and you'll probably be horrified when you see the state of the old one!
VerySideways said:
The 130i will pull a lot harder between 2k and 4k than the Civic Type R, but when the Civic comes on cam the step change makes it "feel" fast.
It's not faster than the 130i (my wife had a Civic Type R a few years back when i had my 130i) but because the N52 pulls in such a linear fashion you don't get that sensation like you do with a VTEC engine (or an old fashioned turbo!).
Something else to consider is that the BMW service schedule doesn't change the air filter very often, every 3rd oil service IIRC, but a fresh air filter at EVERY oil service will cost you an extra £20 a time and is so worth it. The stock air filter flows just as well as a K&N type filter when it's new, but by 60k miles (assuming roughly 20k per oil service) it's flowing very poorly. Go get a new OEM air filter and stick that in. It'll take you less than 10 minutes to do and you'll probably be horrified when you see the state of the old one!
When I bought the BMW Performance intake kit i noticed it had a different air filter to the standard one. However, i cant find a part number to re-order, any ideas?It's not faster than the 130i (my wife had a Civic Type R a few years back when i had my 130i) but because the N52 pulls in such a linear fashion you don't get that sensation like you do with a VTEC engine (or an old fashioned turbo!).
Something else to consider is that the BMW service schedule doesn't change the air filter very often, every 3rd oil service IIRC, but a fresh air filter at EVERY oil service will cost you an extra £20 a time and is so worth it. The stock air filter flows just as well as a K&N type filter when it's new, but by 60k miles (assuming roughly 20k per oil service) it's flowing very poorly. Go get a new OEM air filter and stick that in. It'll take you less than 10 minutes to do and you'll probably be horrified when you see the state of the old one!
VerySideways said:
The 130i will pull a lot harder between 2k and 4k than the Civic Type R, but when the Civic comes on cam the step change makes it "feel" fast.
It's not faster than the 130i (my wife had a Civic Type R a few years back when i had my 130i) but because the N52 pulls in such a linear fashion you don't get that sensation like you do with a VTEC engine (or an old fashioned turbo!).
Something else to consider is that the BMW service schedule doesn't change the air filter very often, every 3rd oil service IIRC, but a fresh air filter at EVERY oil service will cost you an extra £20 a time and is so worth it. The stock air filter flows just as well as a K&N type filter when it's new, but by 60k miles (assuming roughly 20k per oil service) it's flowing very poorly. Go get a new OEM air filter and stick that in. It'll take you less than 10 minutes to do and you'll probably be horrified when you see the state of the old one!
Should have said in original post it has the BMW performance intake, but I really do need to go over all the basics on this tbh, everything is supposedly up to date and the car has had lots of money spent on it, but seeing some of the previous work done on the car it really wouldn't be a suprise if it's had the same filter in it for years or something similar!It's not faster than the 130i (my wife had a Civic Type R a few years back when i had my 130i) but because the N52 pulls in such a linear fashion you don't get that sensation like you do with a VTEC engine (or an old fashioned turbo!).
Something else to consider is that the BMW service schedule doesn't change the air filter very often, every 3rd oil service IIRC, but a fresh air filter at EVERY oil service will cost you an extra £20 a time and is so worth it. The stock air filter flows just as well as a K&N type filter when it's new, but by 60k miles (assuming roughly 20k per oil service) it's flowing very poorly. Go get a new OEM air filter and stick that in. It'll take you less than 10 minutes to do and you'll probably be horrified when you see the state of the old one!
It's just comapred to the Honda, it really feels like I'm wringing it's neck to get to the redline, all I hear is that these engines are one of the great NAs etc etc, so I'm sure mine isn't quite right.
DoubleSix said:
When I bought the BMW Performance intake kit i noticed it had a different air filter to the standard one. However, i cant find a part number to re-order, any ideas?
Check http://www.realoem.com/Put in your chassis number and it'll find your car, then find the optional parts section and it should show the performance intake in there.
DRCAGE said:
Should have said in original post it has the BMW performance intake, but I really do need to go over all the basics on this tbh, everything is supposedly up to date and the car has had lots of money spent on it, but seeing some of the previous work done on the car it really wouldn't be a suprise if it's had the same filter in it for years or something similar!
It's just comapred to the Honda, it really feels like I'm wringing it's neck to get to the redline, all I hear is that these engines are one of the great NAs etc etc, so I'm sure mine isn't quite right.
Might be worth getting it on a dyno to see what it's doing. On 95 octane fuel mine started to tail off at 6700rpm, whereas on 99 octane it pulled past 7k easily.It's just comapred to the Honda, it really feels like I'm wringing it's neck to get to the redline, all I hear is that these engines are one of the great NAs etc etc, so I'm sure mine isn't quite right.
The key with the N52 (imho) is the throttle response as much as anything else. The moment you consider that you might want to accelerate the engine is already doing it. It was my first experience of valvetronic and frankly i don't think i've driven anything since which felt more eager on the throttle pedal.
Before that i drove 993's every day for 7 years, and the throttle on the 130 felt so much livelier.
These days everything i drive is turbocharged and it's just not the same any more. That N52 is a wonderful unit. I fancy a Z4 3.0Si as a weekend toy sometime...
VerySideways said:
Might be worth getting it on a dyno to see what it's doing. On 95 octane fuel mine started to tail off at 6700rpm, whereas on 99 octane it pulled past 7k easily.
The key with the N52 (imho) is the throttle response as much as anything else. The moment you consider that you might want to accelerate the engine is already doing it. It was my first experience of valvetronic and frankly i don't think i've driven anything since which felt more eager on the throttle pedal.
Before that i drove 993's every day for 7 years, and the throttle on the 130 felt so much livelier.
These days everything i drive is turbocharged and it's just not the same any more. That N52 is a wonderful unit. I fancy a Z4 3.0Si as a weekend toy sometime...
I always run it on a combination of Tescos finest and V power, all the local Shells are expensive so it is mainly Tescos tbh.The key with the N52 (imho) is the throttle response as much as anything else. The moment you consider that you might want to accelerate the engine is already doing it. It was my first experience of valvetronic and frankly i don't think i've driven anything since which felt more eager on the throttle pedal.
Before that i drove 993's every day for 7 years, and the throttle on the 130 felt so much livelier.
These days everything i drive is turbocharged and it's just not the same any more. That N52 is a wonderful unit. I fancy a Z4 3.0Si as a weekend toy sometime...
See this is the kind of stuff I keep hearing! And is what pulled me towards this car over so many others, I'm 99% sure mine isn't quite right so will keep on the case.
Got the air filter out and it is pretty bad! It has cleaned up quite well but will get another on order ASAP. Need to give it a full service before I start judging it unfairly!
Many thanks for your input
VTEC and VANOS/Valvetronic are completely different in the way they operate. Eher VETC changes from low lift, short duration cam profile to high lift, long duration, the Valvetronic is constantly variable dependent on throttle pedal demand. As such there is no step in power due to the Valvetronic. You can feel the DISA valve in the intake open at 4.5k rpm though. It might not be functioning but a fault code scanner can check this.
Agree regarding the air filter. Just changed mine on the 330 and it does seem more eager to rev out.
The N52 at 2k rpm produces 50% more torque than a K20 does at peak. It is a much better engine IMO. You don’t need to drive like you stole it to get satisfaction.
Agree regarding the air filter. Just changed mine on the 330 and it does seem more eager to rev out.
The N52 at 2k rpm produces 50% more torque than a K20 does at peak. It is a much better engine IMO. You don’t need to drive like you stole it to get satisfaction.
DRCAGE said:
How "eager" should a 130i be compared to a Civic EP3(or similar) when it hits the vanos/vtec point?
Terrible question I know just don't know how to word it better.
My 130 just doesn't feel like it revs out that well, feels like I'm wringing it's neck rather than it pulling up to the redline.
While my crusty old Civic (and an even crustier Corolla T sport) pull so well.
The BMW is all up to date with servicing etc and previous owners seemed to have done everything properly.
My 2005 80k 130i drives well, generally, and pulls like a train at lowish revs. But, like yours, it does seem to slightly lack sparkle at the top end, and occasionally hesitates almost like a misfire. Plus, engine light has temporarily been on a few times.Terrible question I know just don't know how to word it better.
My 130 just doesn't feel like it revs out that well, feels like I'm wringing it's neck rather than it pulling up to the redline.
While my crusty old Civic (and an even crustier Corolla T sport) pull so well.
The BMW is all up to date with servicing etc and previous owners seemed to have done everything properly.
Mentioned this to my local BMW Indy when it was in for something minor recently, and he said it sounds like the Vanos solenoids (I think he said), and he'd plug it in and check, but it would almost certainly be that. He said they go as a matter of course every now and then on the N52 engine, and replacing them should return my engine's mojo. Think he said a couple of hundred quid or so. Might be worth checking if yours hasn't been done in a while. I see your service is up to date, but Indy seemed to imply it has to be deliberately looked for. I'm getting it done this month as it's due for its service.
DRCAGE said:
How "eager" should a 130i be compared to a Civic EP3(or similar) when it hits the vanos/vtec point?
Terrible question I know just don't know how to word it better.
My 130 just doesn't feel like it revs out that well, feels like I'm wringing it's neck rather than it pulling up to the redline.
I felt similar comparing my 130i to my DC2 Integra. I think part of the problem is that because the N52 has a good lump of torque fairly low down (comparatively) you don't often need to rev it out for good progess, and again the linear nature of the delivery is deceptive. Sometimes I'd try to remind myself of the power by being at light/part throttle in 2nd/3rd and then WOT to register the difference.. Terrible question I know just don't know how to word it better.
My 130 just doesn't feel like it revs out that well, feels like I'm wringing it's neck rather than it pulling up to the redline.
With the V-tec, I'd be waiting/anticipating the cross-over point, which you don't get with the N52.
Interesting recent posts on here. 
Sadly I just missed out on a 130i 6 miles away.
But in 2014 I did what VerySideways is considering and bought a 3 litre Z4 Coupe for weekend fun. I took it out this morning to meet some fellow Z4 owners.
It's done 85K miles but had a service and Insp 1 last June (so new air filter) and a new Vanos Solenoid in November 16. It pulls well at any revs, but does get more urgent the nearer it gets to the red-line with no drop-off (until it hits the limiter).
So if your N52 seems to run out of puff I think there must be something amiss - it's a great engine IMO.
Sadly I just missed out on a 130i 6 miles away.
But in 2014 I did what VerySideways is considering and bought a 3 litre Z4 Coupe for weekend fun. I took it out this morning to meet some fellow Z4 owners.
It's done 85K miles but had a service and Insp 1 last June (so new air filter) and a new Vanos Solenoid in November 16. It pulls well at any revs, but does get more urgent the nearer it gets to the red-line with no drop-off (until it hits the limiter).
So if your N52 seems to run out of puff I think there must be something amiss - it's a great engine IMO.
stevesingo said:
VTEC and VANOS/Valvetronic are completely different in the way they operate. Eher VETC changes from low lift, short duration cam profile to high lift, long duration, the Valvetronic is constantly variable dependent on throttle pedal demand. As such there is no step in power due to the Valvetronic. You can feel the DISA valve in the intake open at 4.5k rpm though. It might not be functioning but a fault code scanner can check this.
Agree regarding the air filter. Just changed mine on the 330 and it does seem more eager to rev out.
The N52 at 2k rpm produces 50% more torque than a K20 does at peak. It is a much better engine IMO. You don’t need to drive like you stole it to get satisfaction.
Yeah I think that's my problem, expecting it to behave like the good old Vtec, I knew they weren't quite the same, but wasn't aware of the differences, thanks. Agree regarding the air filter. Just changed mine on the 330 and it does seem more eager to rev out.
The N52 at 2k rpm produces 50% more torque than a K20 does at peak. It is a much better engine IMO. You don’t need to drive like you stole it to get satisfaction.
Got a fault scanner gizmo on the way (the Carly App, I'm sure people know about it) so will hopefully be able to find out more with that.
Does feel slight more sprightly today (after cleaning filter) but only had a short drive.
Johnny5hoods said:
My 2005 80k 130i drives well, generally, and pulls like a train at lowish revs. But, like yours, it does seem to slightly lack sparkle at the top end, and occasionally hesitates almost like a misfire. Plus, engine light has temporarily been on a few times.
Mentioned this to my local BMW Indy when it was in for something minor recently, and he said it sounds like the Vanos solenoids (I think he said), and he'd plug it in and check, but it would almost certainly be that. He said they go as a matter of course every now and then on the N52 engine, and replacing them should return my engine's mojo. Think he said a couple of hundred quid or so. Might be worth checking if yours hasn't been done in a while. I see your service is up to date, but Indy seemed to imply it has to be deliberately looked for. I'm getting it done this month as it's due for its service.
Yep this is definitely on the cards, although no misfires or engine lights here I'm sure they could do with checking.Mentioned this to my local BMW Indy when it was in for something minor recently, and he said it sounds like the Vanos solenoids (I think he said), and he'd plug it in and check, but it would almost certainly be that. He said they go as a matter of course every now and then on the N52 engine, and replacing them should return my engine's mojo. Think he said a couple of hundred quid or so. Might be worth checking if yours hasn't been done in a while. I see your service is up to date, but Indy seemed to imply it has to be deliberately looked for. I'm getting it done this month as it's due for its service.
I'm trusting the history less and less as I go on so will checking everything to be sure!
Gompo said:
I felt similar comparing my 130i to my DC2 Integra. I think part of the problem is that because the N52 has a good lump of torque fairly low down (comparatively) you don't often need to rev it out for good progess, and again the linear nature of the delivery is deceptive. Sometimes I'd try to remind myself of the power by being at light/part throttle in 2nd/3rd and then WOT to register the difference..
With the V-tec, I'd be waiting/anticipating the cross-over point, which you don't get with the N52.
I've heard people say the same thing comparing an EP3 to a DC2, so i'm sure it's even more pronounced between the 130 and DC2!With the V-tec, I'd be waiting/anticipating the cross-over point, which you don't get with the N52.
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