BMW X1 Stolen! Security?
Discussion
Hi All,
First time poster on here but I'm after some help / thoughts.
My wifes 2013, xline X1 was stolen off our driveway Early hours Tuesday morning and we are completely dumbfounded at how its happened....
There was no suggestion of forced entry, broken glass etc
There was no noise, dog who usually barks at everything never made a sound, bedroom window around 15ft away was wide open
Car was locked
How does this happen? Is the vehicle really that insecure? I assume some technology has been used to gain access? but why no alarm?
Driveway is on a slope so assume once gained entry would have been rolled until out the way?
Assume a proper job rather than opportunists? Has anyone experienced similar or got any thoughts?
Thanks in advance
First time poster on here but I'm after some help / thoughts.
My wifes 2013, xline X1 was stolen off our driveway Early hours Tuesday morning and we are completely dumbfounded at how its happened....
There was no suggestion of forced entry, broken glass etc
There was no noise, dog who usually barks at everything never made a sound, bedroom window around 15ft away was wide open
Car was locked
How does this happen? Is the vehicle really that insecure? I assume some technology has been used to gain access? but why no alarm?
Driveway is on a slope so assume once gained entry would have been rolled until out the way?
Assume a proper job rather than opportunists? Has anyone experienced similar or got any thoughts?
Thanks in advance
As well as the usual panoply of hi-tech suggestions, bear in mind that pros would much rather get hold of your keys (without your being aware), clone them, and then return at a later date. Police report a big rise in "But I still have the keys!" thefts.
Have you had builders in recently? Has someone come to 'read the meter'? Have you had any cold callers for double glazing, loft insulation etc? Basically, has anyone you don't know been on the doorstep by themselves for any length of time or strangers in the house? Have you lost track of a set of keys for a day or two and ended up using the second set, then magically found them again? Have you been out locally and someone's handed back your keys with a "Here, mate - you dropped these ..."? These are all suggestive of the predominant premium car theft strategy of identifying a target; keeping them under surveillance; then pouncing to pickpocket or steal the keys; quickly clone them; then get them back to you. A couple of days later your car is gone.
I don't subscribe to the theory - unproven - that you can clone keys from many metres away through solid walls, but did you leave your keys where they're visible from the outside, through a window? There is some evidence that cloning from 1-2 metres is possible.
Sympathies, and I appreciate that all this is probably scant consolation, but it may suggest some simple precautions that you can take in future.
Have you had builders in recently? Has someone come to 'read the meter'? Have you had any cold callers for double glazing, loft insulation etc? Basically, has anyone you don't know been on the doorstep by themselves for any length of time or strangers in the house? Have you lost track of a set of keys for a day or two and ended up using the second set, then magically found them again? Have you been out locally and someone's handed back your keys with a "Here, mate - you dropped these ..."? These are all suggestive of the predominant premium car theft strategy of identifying a target; keeping them under surveillance; then pouncing to pickpocket or steal the keys; quickly clone them; then get them back to you. A couple of days later your car is gone.
I don't subscribe to the theory - unproven - that you can clone keys from many metres away through solid walls, but did you leave your keys where they're visible from the outside, through a window? There is some evidence that cloning from 1-2 metres is possible.
Sympathies, and I appreciate that all this is probably scant consolation, but it may suggest some simple precautions that you can take in future.
I'm confused by some of the answers on that long thread.
would the thieves have to had created a new fob? the vehicle wasn't what I would call a keyless starter, you still had to insert the fob and press stop start.
So would the faraday cage method still work for such a key?
Obviously we are now awaiting an insurance payout, but what do I buy to ensure this wont happen again? All keys are taking on this technology now arent they?
would the thieves have to had created a new fob? the vehicle wasn't what I would call a keyless starter, you still had to insert the fob and press stop start.
So would the faraday cage method still work for such a key?
Obviously we are now awaiting an insurance payout, but what do I buy to ensure this wont happen again? All keys are taking on this technology now arent they?
You're right, discussions tend to be very confused because frankly, there's very little actual evidence. There's a lot of re-posting of theories, and there are a few CCTV recordings that seem to show electronic-based intrusion, and a lot of hype form tabloid websites and journos. Plus the usual difficulty of relating relatively few actual reports (like yours) to the 80,000 car thefts a year in the UK.
A standard journo trick is to get hold of an ex-criminal and show them breaking electronically into an older model: for example, the BMW OBD Port mechanism is generally thought to have been shut down now by BMW software updates, but it makes for good TV or web video articles. This doesn't really give much insight into the reality.
I researched this for a friend recently who was really nervous about reports that thieves were targeting the M135i. I found that when you tracked all the forum discussions back they tended to originate with three (genuine) reports from people who had been broken into for the keys to their M135i, in one case being beaten-up because they offered resistance. But in the context of the thousands of these sold it wasn't significant (which isn't to dismiss the impact on the victims). On top of that there was tons of chatter and speculation - some of it technically feasible but completely unproven as the actual theft mechanism.
Add to this a load of hype about the perceived danger of keyless entry (not applicable in your case, but it all gets wrapped-in). Again, no thanks to journos who have 'proved' with a completely artificial setup of equipment that you can clone keys passively from up to 20 metres. Perhaps in a lab, or outdoors with a chain of transceivers, but not in practical terms. Thanks to that reliable source the Mail Online and similar, there are a few CCTV videos circulating of apparent remote cloning (accompanied by the usual hysteria) but again these don't bear scrutiny, though they're great clickbait.
What I did find are the 2015 and 2016 annual police reports on UK car thefts, and the data behind the car models and numbers. Turns out that the #1 stolen car in the UK for 2015 and a few years preceding was the BMW X5, heading a Top Ten that were predominantly SUVs (Range Rover, Audi Q7, Discovery, Mitsubishi ..), plus the BMW 5 Series and Ford Fiesta. The 2016 #1 slot was the Audi S3. The #1 slot is stolen at twice the rate of the rest of the Top Ten. The majority of stolen cars are not recovered. Counter-intuitively, your car is more likely to be stolen when parked on the drive, versus randomly on the street.
BMWs have a bad reputation among police because if you add the X5 numbers to the 5 Series then this is a big proportion (11%-12%) of all UK stolen cars. This is a but misleading if you have a different model. For my M135i friend, it turned out that it is less likely to be stolen than a Ford Fiesta and of generally below-average probability of theft.
Police analysis was that for luxury and performance cars, thefts were by professional gangs who steal 'to order' and spend some time beforehand in identifying targets and on surveillance. The preferred mechanism is to get hold of keys and either 1. use them immediately (break-in, then drive away) or preferably 2. later at leisure. It does get vague at this point, because the authorities and insurers seem to deliberately avoid being specific about just how they achieve (2), leaving it to us to infer that cloning is involved (either physical or electronic).
I still think that there's a lot of theft explained by breaches of home security. I went next door recently to drop off a parcel that had been left with us. One of their kids answered the door. "Dad's in the garden - I'll get him". I was left on the doorstep for at least 20 seconds and there in full view were both sets of car keys - they hang them up on the stairs cupboard door, which was ajar. I could easily have filched one set to be copied at leisure, then returned or have a partner in crime return ('to read the meter' etc.) and drop the keys into the back hole of under the stairs to be found again. Then I have all the time in the world to take the car as and when I have everything lined up. If you watched the Nordic Noir series 'Follow the Money' they get the keys to a 6 Series by following a guy to a bar, pickpocketing him, copying the keys and then returning them to his table with a "I think you dropped these on the floor ..?"
For Keyless, I would concede that there's some evidence that it's possible to clone remotely from 1-2 metres away as you unlock/lock the car. This would indeed be the least risk approach for thieves if it's viable. So I'm always careful about anyone being near me in these circumstances. e.g. if there was a guy reading a laptop in the spot next to me when I parked, then I would look for another slot. But then, this is just an extension of being more careful in public places - if I saw two guys sat in a car not doing anything in a public car park I'd avoid them anyway.
A standard journo trick is to get hold of an ex-criminal and show them breaking electronically into an older model: for example, the BMW OBD Port mechanism is generally thought to have been shut down now by BMW software updates, but it makes for good TV or web video articles. This doesn't really give much insight into the reality.
I researched this for a friend recently who was really nervous about reports that thieves were targeting the M135i. I found that when you tracked all the forum discussions back they tended to originate with three (genuine) reports from people who had been broken into for the keys to their M135i, in one case being beaten-up because they offered resistance. But in the context of the thousands of these sold it wasn't significant (which isn't to dismiss the impact on the victims). On top of that there was tons of chatter and speculation - some of it technically feasible but completely unproven as the actual theft mechanism.
Add to this a load of hype about the perceived danger of keyless entry (not applicable in your case, but it all gets wrapped-in). Again, no thanks to journos who have 'proved' with a completely artificial setup of equipment that you can clone keys passively from up to 20 metres. Perhaps in a lab, or outdoors with a chain of transceivers, but not in practical terms. Thanks to that reliable source the Mail Online and similar, there are a few CCTV videos circulating of apparent remote cloning (accompanied by the usual hysteria) but again these don't bear scrutiny, though they're great clickbait.
What I did find are the 2015 and 2016 annual police reports on UK car thefts, and the data behind the car models and numbers. Turns out that the #1 stolen car in the UK for 2015 and a few years preceding was the BMW X5, heading a Top Ten that were predominantly SUVs (Range Rover, Audi Q7, Discovery, Mitsubishi ..), plus the BMW 5 Series and Ford Fiesta. The 2016 #1 slot was the Audi S3. The #1 slot is stolen at twice the rate of the rest of the Top Ten. The majority of stolen cars are not recovered. Counter-intuitively, your car is more likely to be stolen when parked on the drive, versus randomly on the street.
BMWs have a bad reputation among police because if you add the X5 numbers to the 5 Series then this is a big proportion (11%-12%) of all UK stolen cars. This is a but misleading if you have a different model. For my M135i friend, it turned out that it is less likely to be stolen than a Ford Fiesta and of generally below-average probability of theft.
Police analysis was that for luxury and performance cars, thefts were by professional gangs who steal 'to order' and spend some time beforehand in identifying targets and on surveillance. The preferred mechanism is to get hold of keys and either 1. use them immediately (break-in, then drive away) or preferably 2. later at leisure. It does get vague at this point, because the authorities and insurers seem to deliberately avoid being specific about just how they achieve (2), leaving it to us to infer that cloning is involved (either physical or electronic).
I still think that there's a lot of theft explained by breaches of home security. I went next door recently to drop off a parcel that had been left with us. One of their kids answered the door. "Dad's in the garden - I'll get him". I was left on the doorstep for at least 20 seconds and there in full view were both sets of car keys - they hang them up on the stairs cupboard door, which was ajar. I could easily have filched one set to be copied at leisure, then returned or have a partner in crime return ('to read the meter' etc.) and drop the keys into the back hole of under the stairs to be found again. Then I have all the time in the world to take the car as and when I have everything lined up. If you watched the Nordic Noir series 'Follow the Money' they get the keys to a 6 Series by following a guy to a bar, pickpocketing him, copying the keys and then returning them to his table with a "I think you dropped these on the floor ..?"
For Keyless, I would concede that there's some evidence that it's possible to clone remotely from 1-2 metres away as you unlock/lock the car. This would indeed be the least risk approach for thieves if it's viable. So I'm always careful about anyone being near me in these circumstances. e.g. if there was a guy reading a laptop in the spot next to me when I parked, then I would look for another slot. But then, this is just an extension of being more careful in public places - if I saw two guys sat in a car not doing anything in a public car park I'd avoid them anyway.
Edited by msej449 on Thursday 20th July 17:35
msej449 said:
As well as the usual panoply of hi-tech suggestions, bear in mind that pros would much rather get hold of your keys (without your being aware), clone them, and then return at a later date. Police report a big rise in "But I still have the keys!" thefts.
Have you had builders in recently? Has someone come to 'read the meter'? Have you had any cold callers for double glazing, loft insulation etc? Basically, has anyone you don't know been on the doorstep by themselves for any length of time or strangers in the house? Have you lost track of a set of keys for a day or two and ended up using the second set, then magically found them again? Have you been out locally and someone's handed back your keys with a "Here, mate - you dropped these ..."? These are all suggestive of the predominant premium car theft strategy of identifying a target; keeping them under surveillance; then pouncing to pickpocket or steal the keys; quickly clone them; then get them back to you. A couple of days later your car is gone.
I don't subscribe to the theory - unproven - that you can clone keys from many metres away through solid walls, but did you leave your keys where they're visible from the outside, through a window? There is some evidence that cloning from 1-2 metres is possible.
Sympathies, and I appreciate that all this is probably scant consolation, but it may suggest some simple precautions that you can take in future.
Why would a thief steal the keys, clone them, return them etc rather than just nick the car at the first opportunity after getting hold of them?Have you had builders in recently? Has someone come to 'read the meter'? Have you had any cold callers for double glazing, loft insulation etc? Basically, has anyone you don't know been on the doorstep by themselves for any length of time or strangers in the house? Have you lost track of a set of keys for a day or two and ended up using the second set, then magically found them again? Have you been out locally and someone's handed back your keys with a "Here, mate - you dropped these ..."? These are all suggestive of the predominant premium car theft strategy of identifying a target; keeping them under surveillance; then pouncing to pickpocket or steal the keys; quickly clone them; then get them back to you. A couple of days later your car is gone.
I don't subscribe to the theory - unproven - that you can clone keys from many metres away through solid walls, but did you leave your keys where they're visible from the outside, through a window? There is some evidence that cloning from 1-2 metres is possible.
Sympathies, and I appreciate that all this is probably scant consolation, but it may suggest some simple precautions that you can take in future.
Police comment was that pro thieves much prefer to avoid detection / confrontation. Returning the keys and then waiting a few days, then pouncing at 3am means you won't be suspicious, probably asleep, and may well not realise anything's happened for 3-4 hours. Versus you being alert because you can't find your keys. The formula seems to work well ....
Edited by msej449 on Friday 21st July 19:42
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