Talk to me about E46 coupes
Discussion
I had the chance to drive an E46 330 Ci Sport this morning. And now I'm wondering if that might be the answer to my current car buying dilemma! I wondered if I could pick your brains for second?
ETA One other question. Aside from the extra doors, how different is the saloon?
- Do all E46 Coupes have the same suspension setup? I wasn't sure if Sport was a trim spec or if it was like the M-Sport suspension on later BMWs.
- Which engine should you go for? Fuel economy isn't a particular issue for me, so I'm tempted by the 330 Ci.
- There's a 330 Ci Clubsport advertised near me. Is that as exciting as it sounds or is it a glorified trim spec? Any other special editions to look out for?
- Having said that, what are they like in terms of running costs? What's reliability like in general and would you consider a high miler?
- Do they all have ISOFIX? It wouldn't be a regular family car, but the ability to use it for occasional toddler transport would be a bonus.
- What are the main things to watch out for? I seem to remember bushes are a common issue on E46s? Is rust a major worry? I'm not too fussed about running repairs, but I want to avoid anything potentially terminal!
ETA One other question. Aside from the extra doors, how different is the saloon?
Edited by Chris71 on Sunday 3rd September 17:43
95% of E46's are sheds. They are needy in old age and the problems soon mount up. The Clubfoot was a marketing thing - possibly UK only - with wheels, that stupid spoiler and less sound deadening plus harder suspension to make a car less pleasant than the standard car.
A mate of mine - a BMW dealer tech - has a stunning silver 330Ci Sport for sale, facelift 5 speed manual model with black leather. Absolutely lovely and £2500. It's a 2002 car but he converted it to a facelift a few years back with new genuine wings, bonnet and boot plus paintwork, LED rear lights and so on.
A mate of mine - a BMW dealer tech - has a stunning silver 330Ci Sport for sale, facelift 5 speed manual model with black leather. Absolutely lovely and £2500. It's a 2002 car but he converted it to a facelift a few years back with new genuine wings, bonnet and boot plus paintwork, LED rear lights and so on.
As above, 95% if not more are sheds.
E46 330ci was probably a good car for the first 6 months to a year, but unfortunately they are poorly engineered in many areas coupled with the fact that the majority have had a poor maintenance history.
So many issues with these cars and some shocking build quality flaws the deeper you get. It will most likely drink oil or leak it due to poor gasketing and an awful CCV design. Heads are weak with a poor cooling system to accompany the risk.
So factor in a whole new CCV system and a cooling system overhaul if you're lucky. Then at that age you will replacing numerous suspension and driveline balljoints, bushes, droplinks, arb bushes and you will find EVERY fastener is corroded - again poor quality components.
Not to mention the bodywork rust issues.
Sure they make semidecent power and are nice to drive when working i.e brand new or effectively brand new from new components, but it's a guaranteed project car which will demand lots of time & parts!
From an E46 330d owner with a yellow pages size folder of receipts....
E46 330ci was probably a good car for the first 6 months to a year, but unfortunately they are poorly engineered in many areas coupled with the fact that the majority have had a poor maintenance history.
So many issues with these cars and some shocking build quality flaws the deeper you get. It will most likely drink oil or leak it due to poor gasketing and an awful CCV design. Heads are weak with a poor cooling system to accompany the risk.
So factor in a whole new CCV system and a cooling system overhaul if you're lucky. Then at that age you will replacing numerous suspension and driveline balljoints, bushes, droplinks, arb bushes and you will find EVERY fastener is corroded - again poor quality components.
Not to mention the bodywork rust issues.
Sure they make semidecent power and are nice to drive when working i.e brand new or effectively brand new from new components, but it's a guaranteed project car which will demand lots of time & parts!
From an E46 330d owner with a yellow pages size folder of receipts....
Edited by Sim89 on Sunday 3rd September 18:46
Chris71 said:
I had the chance to drive an E46 330 Ci Sport this morning. And now I'm wondering if that might be the answer to my current car buying dilemma! I wondered if I could pick your brains for second?
ETA One other question. Aside from the extra doors, how different is the saloon?
On the basis , 95% are sheds, as the others say, I wouldn't rule out a 325 (providing it's a manual gearbox) as I ran a couple as daily drivers and found them good fun and the 330 whilst faster is still at the same level of performance, the M3 being the real step up /next level - Do all E46 Coupes have the same suspension setup? I wasn't sure if Sport was a trim spec or if it was like the M-Sport suspension on later BMWs.
- Which engine should you go for? Fuel economy isn't a particular issue for me, so I'm tempted by the 330 Ci.
- There's a 330 Ci Clubsport advertised near me. Is that as exciting as it sounds or is it a glorified trim spec? Any other special editions to look out for?
- Having said that, what are they like in terms of running costs? What's reliability like in general and would you consider a high miler?
- Do they all have ISOFIX? It wouldn't be a regular family car, but the ability to use it for occasional toddler transport would be a bonus.
- What are the main things to watch out for? I seem to remember bushes are a common issue on E46s? Is rust a major worry? I'm not too fussed about running repairs, but I want to avoid anything potentially terminal!
ETA One other question. Aside from the extra doors, how different is the saloon?
Edited by Chris71 on Sunday 3rd September 17:43
My first had a little rust, my second had none at all but that was a mint example (protected bodywork) loved and cherished by an old chap. Most do seem to have some rust issues.
Oil leak was the killer on my first post 100k miles and as it required a head gasket off job to fix I traded it.
It did have the CCV breather replaced, but that was not too expensive, other than that, it was only cosumables like bushes, a sticky brake caliper, discs, pads etc.
No maintenance for me on my second one, but only had it 8 months. No major issues in it's past, I had every receipt.
Around 19 p per mile but driven hard and short distances on my second to give an up to date fuel cost. 330 would I assume be the same, at least a manual so no downside in bigger capacity engine
Sport is sport suspension and bodykit so consider it a M Sport. SE would have had different suspension, but given the age of cars owners may have made upgrades / changes, you may have to.
I'd go Sport (Ci) to get sport seats, more importantly.
My buyer had kids and could fit a kiddy seat. so I think that's sorted.
Not aware that Clubsport really added anything performance wise, so don't see it as worth a premium over a 330
They can run to high miles and it's not going to be easy getting a low miler so if it's one of the 5% don't be put off.
I much preferred front bumper and wheels on pre facelift.
You can check what suspension was specced from factory by putting in the VIN into a VIN Check website for BMW's, that should solve any misunderstandings. They are great cars, but if your budget is £5k+ then there is the E92 and thats much more modern and more refined etc. It depends on your budget. They are great cars however.
Maybe I was unlucky but I wished my E36 323i was an auto. Sure I won in the bragging rights camp about mine being a manual but that was the only thing I felt I had ; the car was gone in 4 months ; it came to me with a brand new OE clutch as well. I hated the manual in that. Maybe the CDV would taken away a few issues but coming from an RST with a Helix 4 paddle clutch it was not that nice TBH and a hinderance. My mate's 328i is "OK".
As said age is an issue which leads to neglect.
With these it is all about history IMHO and evidence of regular servicing.
I'd be tempted with the £2.5k example in the thread.
Oh, and I'd budget about £1k to get the boot floor reinforced along with new subframe bushes. That will transform most E46s out there.
Rust is an issue mainly on the wings and rear arches although front wings are too pricey if what helix402 was right. Keeping the rear arches clean helps too.
As said age is an issue which leads to neglect.
With these it is all about history IMHO and evidence of regular servicing.
I'd be tempted with the £2.5k example in the thread.
Oh, and I'd budget about £1k to get the boot floor reinforced along with new subframe bushes. That will transform most E46s out there.
Rust is an issue mainly on the wings and rear arches although front wings are too pricey if what helix402 was right
. Keeping the rear arches clean helps too.They keep tempting me OP - I've got a manual 325ti Sport Compact at the moment, but a 330Ci is tempting. As is a 330i Touring, for different reasons!
AFAIK in the E46 era Sport models got stiffer suspension and much better seats than SE models - but given their age if they haven't had a refresh they are all going to be tired so you could probably save a bit going for an SE and fitting Sport or aftermarket parts.
There is very little difference in running costs between the 320, 325 and 330 so I'd concentrate on 330s - but if a 325 popped up at a good price I wouldn't rule it out! Mine is quick enough to not feel boring.
The ClubSport didn't add any power, so I'd save some money and look for a Sport!
My 325ti is on 99.5K and still drives really well - mileage isn't an issue. But they all need a cooling system refresh from time to time (mine had one at about 85K). Radiators bow, expansion tanks split and thermostats fail, but it was 11 years old so that's hardly unreliable IMO.
I'm pretty sure they all have ISOFIX (but don't know for sure as I've never needed that feature) but if you open the passenger door and see a key-slot in the end of the dashboard you can turn off the passenger airbag so you can put child seats in the front - but this was an option.
CCV system can be a problem (it'll use loads of oil if it is on its way out) but mine seems OK so far. And you will need bushes, joints, etc. but how many 10+ year old cars don't need those?
Wings can get rusty - not such a problem on the front as they are bolted and I believe you can even buy replacements pre-painted, but fixing that on rears isn't so simple.
And they can have issues with rusty rear brake pipes, which are expensive to replace as the fuel tank needs to be dropped to replace them - but you can always have flexible pipes routed around it with fixing brackets to support them.
If you find a 330Ci facelift (some time in 2003) you get the bonus of a 6-speed gearbox, but the 325 didn't get this.
Someone mentioned E92 Coupe as getting down towards similar prices. The first ones had the N52 engine that my Z4 Coupe has - and it is fantastic! Pulls right up to the 7,000 rpm limiter and sounds great! But it has no dip-stick (you use a button on the dash, assuming the sensor is working) and an electric water pump which can just stop working! If it fails you get from normal to red light in a mile or so. Which wouldn't be so bad if an OEM replacement didn't cost £500 - ECP quoted £340! So if you look at one of those check it's history - if it has had a new water pump already that is a bonus! And the later ones with the N53 engine have other issues with injectors and High Pressure Fuel Pumps.
I hope that doesn't come across in a negative way because I think a good one is a great car - an E46 Coupe has to be one of best looking BMWs in the last decade.
I'll have another E46, just need to decide whether to get a Coupe or a Touring!
AFAIK in the E46 era Sport models got stiffer suspension and much better seats than SE models - but given their age if they haven't had a refresh they are all going to be tired so you could probably save a bit going for an SE and fitting Sport or aftermarket parts.
There is very little difference in running costs between the 320, 325 and 330 so I'd concentrate on 330s - but if a 325 popped up at a good price I wouldn't rule it out! Mine is quick enough to not feel boring.
The ClubSport didn't add any power, so I'd save some money and look for a Sport!
My 325ti is on 99.5K and still drives really well - mileage isn't an issue. But they all need a cooling system refresh from time to time (mine had one at about 85K). Radiators bow, expansion tanks split and thermostats fail, but it was 11 years old so that's hardly unreliable IMO.
I'm pretty sure they all have ISOFIX (but don't know for sure as I've never needed that feature) but if you open the passenger door and see a key-slot in the end of the dashboard you can turn off the passenger airbag so you can put child seats in the front - but this was an option.
CCV system can be a problem (it'll use loads of oil if it is on its way out) but mine seems OK so far. And you will need bushes, joints, etc. but how many 10+ year old cars don't need those?
Wings can get rusty - not such a problem on the front as they are bolted and I believe you can even buy replacements pre-painted, but fixing that on rears isn't so simple.
And they can have issues with rusty rear brake pipes, which are expensive to replace as the fuel tank needs to be dropped to replace them - but you can always have flexible pipes routed around it with fixing brackets to support them.
If you find a 330Ci facelift (some time in 2003) you get the bonus of a 6-speed gearbox, but the 325 didn't get this.
Someone mentioned E92 Coupe as getting down towards similar prices. The first ones had the N52 engine that my Z4 Coupe has - and it is fantastic! Pulls right up to the 7,000 rpm limiter and sounds great! But it has no dip-stick (you use a button on the dash, assuming the sensor is working) and an electric water pump which can just stop working! If it fails you get from normal to red light in a mile or so. Which wouldn't be so bad if an OEM replacement didn't cost £500 - ECP quoted £340! So if you look at one of those check it's history - if it has had a new water pump already that is a bonus! And the later ones with the N53 engine have other issues with injectors and High Pressure Fuel Pumps.
I hope that doesn't come across in a negative way because I think a good one is a great car - an E46 Coupe has to be one of best looking BMWs in the last decade.
I'll have another E46, just need to decide whether to get a Coupe or a Touring!
Thanks gents.
Got a link?
Out of interest, what would people recommend as an alternative? I've yet to do the sums, but I don't think I have E92 money (that said, a mate of mine does have an E92 335i for sale
)
I presume the E36 will be at least as problematic to run as an E46 these days?
How many gearbox options are there? I've seen some regular E46s listed as semi-automatic, is that different to the regular auto? Normally I'd go for a manual every time, but I have to do quite a lot of long motorway journies at peak times, so an auto might have its plus points in traffic.
Pls feel free to PM if anyone else has or knows of one in good mechanical/structural condition.
iSore said:
A mate of mine - a BMW dealer tech - has a stunning silver 330Ci Sport for sale, facelift 5 speed manual model with black leather. Absolutely lovely and £2500. It's a 2002 car but he converted it to a facelift a few years back with new genuine wings, bonnet and boot plus paintwork, LED rear lights and so on.
Got a link?
Out of interest, what would people recommend as an alternative? I've yet to do the sums, but I don't think I have E92 money (that said, a mate of mine does have an E92 335i for sale
)I presume the E36 will be at least as problematic to run as an E46 these days?
How many gearbox options are there? I've seen some regular E46s listed as semi-automatic, is that different to the regular auto? Normally I'd go for a manual every time, but I have to do quite a lot of long motorway journies at peak times, so an auto might have its plus points in traffic.
Pls feel free to PM if anyone else has or knows of one in good mechanical/structural condition.
Edited by Chris71 on Monday 4th September 11:50
Just to add a slightly more positive note, I've had my 330ci for 18 months now. And I'm still enjoying it. It's had a new CCV, new bushes and has a bit of rust starting on the rear arches. But it's quick, comfortable, looks good (although it's the wrong colour). Yes, there are a lot of neglected cars out there but find a well looked after example and they are money well spent.
Also, if the E46 isn't worth the hassle, what is the alternative? Surely any 12-15 year old car is going to need some attention.
Also, if the E46 isn't worth the hassle, what is the alternative? Surely any 12-15 year old car is going to need some attention.
Edited by Cledus Snow on Monday 4th September 16:26
Cledus Snow said:
Also, if the E46 isn't worth the hassle, what is the alternative? Surely any 12-15 year old car is going to need some attention.
Indeed. The one I drove yesterday was a speculative visit to a local car dealership on the way back from seeing an Alfa 156 V6 that I had my heart set on. The E46 was outwardly in a much rougher state yet it drove infinitely better. I'd still be tempted by the Alfa if I could find a good one, but I'd say 330s outnumber them about 10:1, so even if there are a few dogs out there my chances of finding a good one are far higher. Plus, as a long-suffering TVR owner, I have a fairly philosophical take on maintenance requirements. 
Edited by Chris71 on Monday 4th September 17:22
Cledus Snow said:
Just to add a slightly more positive note, I've had my 330ci for 18 months now. And I'm still enjoying it. It's had a new CCV, new bushes and has a bit of rust starting on the rear arches. But it's quick, comfortable, looks good (although it's the wrong colour). Yes, there are a lot of neglected cars out there but find a well looked after example and they are money well spent.
Also, if the E46 isn't worth the hassle, what is the alternative? Surely any 12-15 year old car is going to need some attention.
I'll add my experience with an E46 330Ci, 'well looked after' is the key, I think.Also, if the E46 isn't worth the hassle, what is the alternative? Surely any 12-15 year old car is going to need some attention.
Edited by Cledus Snow on Monday 4th September 16:26
Mine: bought new Dec '01, now on 134K, always serviced by BMW or, more recently, by quality local indie.
Issues:
CCV definitely, didn't use a drop of oil up to around 80K miles, steadily increased after that and now uses ~ 1litre/1000 miles - acceptable as I don't do a high mileage. Pretty sure it's the CCV that's gunged up, can live with it so far.
Rear brake pipe minor corrosion, has been an advisory on and off for a few years, will probably need to be done eventually.
Niggling problem over the years with the seat belts warning light, known problem, BMW consistently failed to sort it, indie eventually fixed it.
Otherwise, just 'normal' items eg new thermostat, rad and water pump (overhaul around 100K is usual), pads, one front wheel bearing, bushes etc.
Still on original clutch, starter, alternator, injection system, shocks, exhaust (really!), and no corrosion on bodywork (really!)
Best car I've owned by a mile, still drives beautifully, there are still some decent ones around if you look
Could I get your thoughts on a couple I've spotted? Feel free to PM if you'd prefer.
This one is 'only' a 325, but it seems to have had most of the right bits replaced and (at the risk of sounding like a bit of a girl...) I like the fact it's a less sombre colour combination than a lot of them:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...
This one seems a touch pricey, and it's a saloon rather than a coupe, but full suspension refresh by the sound of it:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
This one is 'only' a 325, but it seems to have had most of the right bits replaced and (at the risk of sounding like a bit of a girl...) I like the fact it's a less sombre colour combination than a lot of them:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...
This one seems a touch pricey, and it's a saloon rather than a coupe, but full suspension refresh by the sound of it:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Chris71 said:
Got a link?
Out of interest, what would people recommend as an alternative? I've yet to do the sums, but I don't think I have E92 money (that said, a mate of mine does have an E92 335i for sale
)I presume the E36 will be at least as problematic to run as an E46 these days?
How many gearbox options are there? I've seen some regular E46s listed as semi-automatic, is that different to the regular auto? Normally I'd go for a manual every time, but I have to do quite a lot of long motorway journies at peak times, so an auto might have its plus points in traffic.
Pls feel free to PM if anyone else has or knows of one in good mechanical/structural condition.
Edited by Chris71 on Monday 4th September 11:50
Downsides to them are the image, no-one believing that despite an Evo article once saying for £20k at the time most other German cars were not better when compared with an RS4. They are also now beginning to get expensive for good examples ; a friend of mine wants a low mileage one and I cannot believe the prices they are being snapped up at.
The auto IMHO is OK. The manual is a better driver's option undoubtedly but IMO the change quality leaves little to be desired ; it won't be MX-5 quality, put it that way. The semi-auto is an SSG, a derivative of the SMG gearbox. Opinions on these vary alot ; some say they are dreadful yet others (including PPC magazine) thought they were great. But they do require specialist knowledge to fix. Then again, it seems most older cars do anyway now!
But be warned. Some cars described as having semi-autos are actually true automatics, like this one:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Chris71 said:
Indeed. The one I drove yesterday was a speculative visit to a local car dealership on the way back from seeing an Alfa 156 V6 that I had my heart set on. The E46 was outwardly in a much rougher state yet it drove infinitely better. I'd still be tempted by the Alfa if I could find a good one, but I'd say 330s outnumber them about 10:1, so even if there are a few dogs out there my chances of finding a good one are far higher. Plus, as a long-suffering TVR owner, I have a fairly philosophical take on maintenance requirements.
Yup, there are many rough dogs of both ARs and BMWs ; they are that age these days. Keep the faith however.Edited by Chris71 on Monday 4th September 17:22
With an E46 I struggled like mental to find a good one too. I do wonder if mine was 'good' at times but it has earned its keep:
https://theleylandlegends.wordpress.com/2017/03/11...
https://theleylandlegends.wordpress.com/2017/03/15...
Chris71 said:
Could I get your thoughts on a couple I've spotted? Feel free to PM if you'd prefer.
This one is 'only' a 325, but it seems to have had most of the right bits replaced and (at the risk of sounding like a bit of a girl...) I like the fact it's a less sombre colour combination than a lot of them:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...
This one seems a touch pricey, and it's a saloon rather than a coupe, but full suspension refresh by the sound of it:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Both are automatics, not for me but .............This one is 'only' a 325, but it seems to have had most of the right bits replaced and (at the risk of sounding like a bit of a girl...) I like the fact it's a less sombre colour combination than a lot of them:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...
This one seems a touch pricey, and it's a saloon rather than a coupe, but full suspension refresh by the sound of it:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
The 325 looks a snip, pocket money and allows for some money to be spent if needed. Worth a few quid to get it checked over.
The 330, errr, top whack money, and 5 owners, think I'd pass on that!
Just my 2p.
Is 5 owners really too much? That's an owner every 3 years...
I rarely keep my cars that long and quite a few here don't!
You'd love a car off my mate. All of his are low owner and mileage. All have been neglected bar one. He normally PXs his cars for this reason...
Both look good to me however. I am surprised what people are asking for 330i noes however. It seems articles in a magazine can make a difference...
I rarely keep my cars that long and quite a few here don't!
You'd love a car off my mate. All of his are low owner and mileage. All have been neglected bar one. He normally PXs his cars for this reason...
Both look good to me however. I am surprised what people are asking for 330i noes however. It seems articles in a magazine can make a difference...
SebringMan said:
But be warned. Some cars described as having semi-autos are actually true automatics, like this one:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Ah, now that is interesting! I quite liked the look of that one, but discounted it based on what I'd heard about the SSG elsewhere (by sheer coincidence a mate came to visit this afternoon ... I forgot he started in the motor trade and currently owns an E46 saloon!)https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
So what do we reckon to that one?
Like I say, I used to be vehemently anti-auto, but after the hundredth time creeping through the traffic on the way up to Stonehenge on the A303 I'm coming round to the idea of someone shuffling the torque for me.
Chris71 said:
Got a link?
But you're highly unlikely to find a nicer one. For example it had four new dampers last year - genuine parts from Sytners along with top mounts and bump stops. Over £800 alone in parts. That's what separates the good cars from the rubbish.
If you're genuinely interested you can P.M me.
From my memory of the owner's manual , the 325 auto took a notable drop in performance over the manual. A 0-60 of about 8.3 instead of 7.2 perhaps.
I beoieve this was for both facelift and pre facelift ; the latter models overall being slightly faster.
This drop was not so notable in the figures for 330 auto , but there was a drop thus closing gap with a 325 manual.
When I owned my first I used to read the relevant forums , I think one has gone but bmwforums.info survives and I'm sure the consensus of owners saw the 330 auto as also taking a hit on fuel consumption too.
I beoieve this was for both facelift and pre facelift ; the latter models overall being slightly faster.
This drop was not so notable in the figures for 330 auto , but there was a drop thus closing gap with a 325 manual.
When I owned my first I used to read the relevant forums , I think one has gone but bmwforums.info survives and I'm sure the consensus of owners saw the 330 auto as also taking a hit on fuel consumption too.
iSore said:
Chris71 said:
Got a link?
But you're highly unlikely to find a nicer one. For example it had four new dampers last year - genuine parts from Sytners along with top mounts and bump stops. Over £800 alone in parts. That's what separates the good cars from the rubbish.
If you're genuinely interested you can P.M me.
On a different note, had a bit of a Google and the overwhelming consensus seems to be that there's no point getting a 325 if you can afford a 330. Shame, that blue one looked rather nice.
Edited by Chris71 on Tuesday 5th September 10:27
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