E46 330 Ci vs 325 Ti?

E46 330 Ci vs 325 Ti?

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Discussion

Chris71

Original Poster:

21,535 posts

241 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
Apart from the obvious, how does the E46 325 Ti compare to the full-fat 330 Ci? I'm looking for an E46 currently and I've hit a slight snag. My garage is only millimetrically longer than a 330 Ci. There's no on-street parking here, and while I could just about squeeze two on the drive it will be a bit of a pain every time my wife needs to get her car out...

I might just have to get very good at parking, but curious as to how the two stack up. I'm not too fussed about outright performance, but I was wondering how the handling and the long-distance comfort compares?

Cheapstraitsix

269 posts

138 months

Monday 18th September 2017
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I have both an M3 and a 325ti, also recently sold a 330i touring.

I would say the pace is about the same, compact possibly feels more eager.

Ride comfort and cruising ability were identical as far as I'm concerned, they both share the same wheelbase etc.
Again the compact felt a bit more on its toes down the twistys, slightly lighter with the quicker steering rack all helps.

Although mines set up for track, I use it for an hour commute regularly with no problems.

Edited by Cheapstraitsix on Monday 18th September 21:00

Mr Tidy

22,065 posts

126 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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I've limited experience of E46 Coupes, but the 325ti Compact I have had for nearly 3 years is just great!

I just wish BMW had made a 330i Compact (but it may have embarrassed "full-fat" 330Cis that were way more expensive)!

The Compact was obviously meant as a hooligan model - all 325ti models had "Sport" seats and suspension whereas some 330Cis were SEs with "deckchair" seats, etc. laugh

Gratuitous photo of my 325ti Sport!



Chris71

Original Poster:

21,535 posts

241 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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Well, this complicates things a little!

I've read elsewhere that the 330CI has better brakes than the 325CI - any idea if the same applies to the Compact?

I'm after fun daily transport, so this is not intended to be any sort of future classic. However... Part of me thinks 'look at the way E36 328s have gone up in the last few years, a good 330CI is likely to do the same eventually'. On the other hand, there's quite a hefty price difference. There don't seem to be many Compacts about, but it looks like a post-facelift six-speed 325 Ti can be had for about the same as an early five-speed 330 CI.

On a related note, what are your thoughts on five-speed versus six-speed (for either of them)? Is the six-speed a no-brainer if you can find a good one or are there advantages to the earlier 'box? I do a lot of motorway miles, so the six-speed appeals, which is a shame, as most of the potentially good manuals I can see are five-speed.

Maracus

4,227 posts

167 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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I had a 2002 318Ti as lease car. The 3xx coupes that other work colleagues had, the rear space was better and the boot was bigger.

I know looks are in the eye of the beholder, but the coupe is a far nicer looking car IMO.

Chris71

Original Poster:

21,535 posts

241 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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Maracus said:
I know looks are in the eye of the beholder, but the coupe is a far nicer looking car IMO.
I'm inclined to agree, but I still like the looks of the Compact. And it would fit in the garage a bit more easily! I think it probably comes down to which one I find first. If there's a 325 Ti with the bushes done, good history etc. for sale locally I'd definitely consider that over a coupe.

Maracus

4,227 posts

167 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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Chris71 said:
Maracus said:
I know looks are in the eye of the beholder, but the coupe is a far nicer looking car IMO.
I'm inclined to agree, but I still like the looks of the Compact. And it would fit in the garage a bit more easily! I think it probably comes down to which one I find first. If there's a 325 Ti with the bushes done, good history etc. for sale locally I'd definitely consider that over a coupe.
To be fair, the Compact would look better than a Coupe with a dented rear hehe

helix402

7,832 posts

181 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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330ci/i/d has larger brakes than other E46s (bar M3).

SebringMan

1,773 posts

185 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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helix402 said:
330ci/i/d has larger brakes than other E46s (bar M3).
The 330i brakes are the same size I think bar not being floating discs. Unless you look at CSL discs.

A few motor factors like ECP even sell 330i pads for an M3.

helix402

7,832 posts

181 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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Learn something new every day!

iSore

4,011 posts

143 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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I sold these as used cars for BMW - the 325i is not as fast as a 330i - 40 bhp and a wedge of torque afforded by 500 cc extra. In third gear the 3.0 car really does lift its skirts and go!

Standard 325i brakes are just fine for road use but 330i ones are better for high speed stops.

Nothing wrong with the 325i per se, but the 330i doesn't use a drop more fuel and they go a lot better.

iSore

4,011 posts

143 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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SebringMan said:
The 330i brakes are the same size I think bar not being floating discs. Unless you look at CSL discs.
330i's have bigger discs front and rear and bigger pads and callipers.

325x25 versus 300x22.

Edited by iSore on Tuesday 19th September 17:53

dhutch

14,198 posts

196 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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Had the same dilemma myself, found a nice 325Ti in red with the sports bumpers which I feel negated the otherwise dubious headlight aesthetic. But then I found a Imola 330ci in clubsport spec and bought that instead.

Less fun on a wet roundabout than my e36 compact but a whole lot nicer on the motorway and twice the engine.

Daniel

s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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Chris71 said:
Apart from the obvious, how does the E46 325 Ti compare to the full-fat 330 Ci? I'm looking for an E46 currently and I've hit a slight snag. My garage is only millimetrically longer than a 330 Ci. There's no on-street parking here, and while I could just about squeeze two on the drive it will be a bit of a pain every time my wife needs to get her car out...

I might just have to get very good at parking, but curious as to how the two stack up. I'm not too fussed about outright performance, but I was wondering how the handling and the long-distance comfort compares?
325ti is 226mm shorter than a 330i Coupe - that's 9 inches
Compact has 25mm smaller front discs than a 330 ( as stated by helix above ) meaning any OEM 16" alloys will fit compact but I think only a few 16" alloys will fit a 330 ( and then only with wheel weights outside ) - AT Contour reps are one 16" Alloy that fits a 330
You can fit 330 disc/ calipers to a 325ti though

Both have same wheelbase and rear passenger leg space - Compact has 310 litres boot space, Coupe has 410 litres space.

Autocar tested them both - whether you believe the test figures they recorded is up to you - up to 90mph there was 0.2 seconds difference in time ( favouring the 330 Coupé ) - 13.7 seconds vs 13.9 for the Compact
The Compact is 9mph down on top speed as it has a "shorter" rear diff ratio ( 325 Coupé and saloon manual do not have the shorter ratio of the Compact so feel a bit less spritely ). It needs an extra gear change into 4th to hit the ton whereas the 330 will just make it in 3rd.
Also needs an extra change into 3rd to hit 60 whereas 330 only needs one change (6.9 vs 6.7 - other mags have recorded different/faster times for both )

Effectively there is virtually nothing in it till you reach 3 figure speeds and above.

325ti Compact was 1db noisier at 70mph cruise and on full acceleration than 330 Coupé ( 325ti has no vacuum operated exhaust flap as standard - it was engineered to give a 'sportier note' ) - neither will sound as musical as that 156 V6 you were thinking of wink
Std 325ti Compact has slightly thicker front ARB than 330 and in conjunction with the lighter weight over the 330 Coupé the suspension ( as standard ) is effectively stiffer/harsher - you probably won't notice it on a motorway and unless you were comparing totally refreshed suspension on both cars, probably not on a B-road either. FWIW quite a few journos thought the Compact was the best handler in the range - Harris, Sutcliffe and Meaden. Whether it's psychological or not, mine definitely felt livelier/wieldier than my 330 saloon. Other peoples MMV ...... as they say.

I've not had a 330 Coupé but have owned a 330 saloon - for all practical purposes both will cruise at the motorway limit here and abroad very easily. I've done trips down to South of France/Italy in both with family and luggage. Coupé would have 30% more luggage room without folding rear seats than Compact

I bought a Compact as they were a real bargain 4years ago compared to 330 Saloons/Coupes - often lower mileage and much cheaper because of the looks.
These days you're buying on condition though so just buy the car you want - I'm more interested in how a car feels to drive than how it looks ( I bought a 309gti over a 205 1.9 years back as it was much cheaper! ) but DRG is important to many.


Edited by s m on Wednesday 20th September 00:58

mwggriffiths

62 posts

150 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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Chris71 said:
Well, this complicates things a little!

I've read elsewhere that the 330CI has better brakes than the 325CI - any idea if the same applies to the Compact?

I'm after fun daily transport, so this is not intended to be any sort of future classic. However... Part of me thinks 'look at the way E36 328s have gone up in the last few years, a good 330CI is likely to do the same eventually'. On the other hand, there's quite a hefty price difference. There don't seem to be many Compacts about, but it looks like a post-facelift six-speed 325 Ti can be had for about the same as an early five-speed 330 CI.

On a related note, what are your thoughts on five-speed versus six-speed (for either of them)? Is the six-speed a no-brainer if you can find a good one or are there advantages to the earlier 'box? I do a lot of motorway miles, so the six-speed appeals, which is a shame, as most of the potentially good manuals I can see are five-speed.
My friend has been looking at 330i Tourings recently, so I've been out with him looking at potential candidates and directly comparing the 330i to my 325Ti:

As stated above the 3.0 is ~40bhp up on the 2.5, but more importantly is 65Nm up in torque! It really does feel it, the 2.5 feels heavy (mine weighed 1440kg ~100kg less than a 330i Touring) and lacking in torque, whereas the was 3.0 much more able to pull from low RPMs in high gears.

The brakes on the 3.0s are bigger yes, the 2.5s are under spec'd for track use but more than good enough for the road. Its possible to fit 3.0 brakes front and rear if feel the need to upgrade (the rear isn't as simple as the front mind...).

The Ti has a "purple tag" "quick rack" (50mm/rev) which makes the world of difference to the way the car drives - So much so I fit those racks to all my BMWs (E30 and E36s)!

Gearing is different between the Compacts and the Coupes/Saloons/Tourings:
Firstly the gearbox: Ratios 1-5 are identical on the 5 and 6 speed boxes, 6th being extra over-driven, the 6 speed was only available on the post facelift 325Ti and the post facelift 330i's. As a result its worth seeking out if you do a lot of A road / Motorway cruising, although the post '03 Coupes are worth substantially more than the 5 speed cars as a result (price differential on the Compact isn't as extreme).
Secondly the final drive (diff ratio): 330i's use a 2.93:1, Compacts a 3.15:1 - this is the same regardless of whether there's a 5 or 6 speed gearbox in front of it, so the Compact sits at higher RPM at 70mph than the equivalent 325i/330i. The shorter ratio on the 325Ti should make it slightly quicker off the line, but that's more than offset by the extra power and torque of the 3.0. The 5 speed Compact like mine is ridiculous, its geared like a 1.2 supermini!

I've seen less Compacts suffering with the dreaded wheel arch rust too, which might make finding a mint one easier?

I think my ideal spec is a facelift 6 speed 325Ti, but fitted with a 3.0.... Which might explain all the rough 330i saloons in my ebay watch list at the moment!

Chris71

Original Poster:

21,535 posts

241 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
s m said:
Chris71 said:
Apart from the obvious, how does the E46 325 Ti compare to the full-fat 330 Ci? I'm looking for an E46 currently and I've hit a slight snag. My garage is only millimetrically longer than a 330 Ci. There's no on-street parking here, and while I could just about squeeze two on the drive it will be a bit of a pain every time my wife needs to get her car out...

I might just have to get very good at parking, but curious as to how the two stack up. I'm not too fussed about outright performance, but I was wondering how the handling and the long-distance comfort compares?
325ti is 226mm shorter than a 330i Coupe - that's 9 inches
Compact has 25mm smaller front discs than a 330 ( as stated by helix above ) meaning any OEM 16" alloys will fit compact but I think only a few 16" alloys will fit a 330 ( and then only with wheel weights outside ) - AT Contour reps are one 16" Alloy that fits a 330
You can fit 330 disc/ calipers to a 325ti though

Both have same wheelbase and rear passenger leg space - Compact has 310 litres boot space, Coupe has 410 litres space.

Autocar tested them both - whether you believe the test figures they recorded is up to you - up to 90mph there was 0.2 seconds difference in time ( favouring the 330 Coupé ) - 13.7 seconds vs 13.9 for the Compact
The Compact is 9mph down on top speed as it has a "shorter" rear diff ratio ( 325 Coupé and saloon manual do not have the shorter ratio of the Compact so feel a bit less spritely ). It needs an extra gear change into 4th to hit the ton whereas the 330 will just make it in 3rd.
Also needs an extra change into 3rd to hit 60 whereas 330 only needs one change (6.9 vs 6.7 - other mags have recorded different/faster times for both )

Effectively there is virtually nothing in it till you reach 3 figure speeds and above.

325ti Compact was 1db noisier at 70mph cruise and on full acceleration than 330 Coupé ( 325ti has no vacuum operated exhaust flap as standard - it was engineered to give a 'sportier note' ) - neither will sound as musical as that 156 V6 you were thinking of wink
Std 325ti Compact has slightly thicker front ARB than 330 and in conjunction with the lighter weight over the 330 Coupé the suspension ( as standard ) is effectively stiffer/harsher - you probably won't notice it on a motorway and unless you were comparing totally refreshed suspension on both cars, probably not on a B-road either. FWIW quite a few journos thought the Compact was the best handler in the range - Harris, Sutcliffe and Meaden. Whether it's psychological or not, mine definitely felt livelier/wieldier than my 330 saloon. Other peoples MMV ...... as they say.

I've not had a 330 Coupé but have owned a 330 saloon - for all practical purposes both will cruise at the motorway limit here and abroad very easily. I've done trips down to South of France/Italy in both with family and luggage. Coupé would have 30% more luggage room without folding rear seats than Compact

I bought a Compact as they were a real bargain 4years ago compared to 330 Saloons/Coupes - often lower mileage and much cheaper because of the looks.
These days you're buying on condition though so just buy the car you want - I'm more interested in how a car feels to drive than how it looks ( I bought a 309gti over a 205 1.9 years back as it was much cheaper! ) but DRG is important to many.
Thanks. Lots of good stuff there.

If I go coupe it'll definitely be a 330 (because why wouldn't you...) That said, I'm getting the impression the Compact is quite a different proposition to the 325 in Coupe form - perhaps more fun on the B-roads at the expense of a little wafting ability, and crucially small enough to go in the garage without removing the shelves I've got at the back!

Sport bumper 325 Ti's seem to be even rarer than good 330 CIs. I know where there's going to be a good coupe in a few weeks' time, so I guess we'll se what pops up first. I could really do with a car sooner, but I've not found anything that grabs me so far. In the meantime, I'm tooling around in my OH's Corolla.

s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
mwggriffiths said:
My friend has been looking at 330i Tourings recently, so I've been out with him looking at potential candidates and directly comparing the 330i to my 325Ti:

As stated above the 3.0 is ~40bhp up on the 2.5, but more importantly is 65Nm up in torque! It really does feel it, the 2.5 feels heavy (mine weighed 1440kg ~100kg less than a 330i Touring) and lacking in torque, whereas the was 3.0 much more able to pull from low RPMs in high gears.

The brakes on the 3.0s are bigger yes, the 2.5s are under spec'd for track use but more than good enough for the road. Its possible to fit 3.0 brakes front and rear if feel the need to upgrade (the rear isn't as simple as the front mind...).

The Ti has a "purple tag" "quick rack" (50mm/rev) which makes the world of difference to the way the car drives - So much so I fit those racks to all my BMWs (E30 and E36s)!

Gearing is different between the Compacts and the Coupes/Saloons/Tourings:
Firstly the gearbox: Ratios 1-5 are identical on the 5 and 6 speed boxes, 6th being extra over-driven, the 6 speed was only available on the post facelift 325Ti and the post facelift 330i's. As a result its worth seeking out if you do a lot of A road / Motorway cruising, although the post '03 Coupes are worth substantially more than the 5 speed cars as a result (price differential on the Compact isn't as extreme).
Secondly the final drive (diff ratio): 330i's use a 2.93:1, Compacts a 3.15:1 - this is the same regardless of whether there's a 5 or 6 speed gearbox in front of it, so the Compact sits at higher RPM at 70mph than the equivalent 325i/330i. The shorter ratio on the 325Ti should make it slightly quicker off the line, but that's more than offset by the extra power and torque of the 3.0. The 5 speed Compact like mine is ridiculous, its geared like a 1.2 supermini!
The 330s should also have the quicker rack after late 2001 - the Compact intro'd the steering revisions onto the non-M E46 range

325ti rear diff ration was even 'shorter' than that - 3.23:1

In-gear maxima from the Autocar tests were as follows

325ti 35, 59, 89, 122, 144
330i 36, 66, 100, 133, 151

Hence why the ti was a smidge faster to 50 ( 0.3 seconds ) but a smidge slower to 60 (0.2 seconds ) - had to change gear just before the benchmark 60mph

dhutch

14,198 posts

196 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
Yeah it must be convenient for the 330 0-60 run that it can do 60 in second.

Daniel

Mr Tidy

22,065 posts

126 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
Some interesting numbers on the performance figures!

I bought my Compact mainly for the practicality of the hatch, but keep wondering about a 330Ci - now I've read through this thread I think I'll just keep it!

OP, there are some Sport models out there (mine is one as in the photo above) but if you want certain options it can take a long wait!

Mine is a pre-facelift in Imola Red which I love.

After I let my nephew drive it I had to find him one! Found him a facelift in metallic black with cream leather and the sunroof, but it was an SE.

When he became a dad last year we had to find him a Touring, and I was really torn between keeping mine or having his!

In the end Sport trim and Imola Red won the day, but his 6-speed was definitely better on the motorway.

Then again it doesn't seem to affect economy much, and it does mean when you want to accelerate reasonably quickly on a motorway you don't feel like you need to change down.

If possible you probably need to get a drive in one - if you ever find yourself over in the Berks/Surrey/Hants border area you'd be welcome to try mine. thumbup


s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
Mr Tidy said:
Some interesting numbers on the performance figures!

I bought my Compact mainly for the practicality of the hatch, but keep wondering about a 330Ci - now I've read through this thread I think I'll just keep it!
You could always fit a "shorter" diff to a 330i and achieve the same effect if you really want the bigger engine.

I.e the 3.38 diff out of an auto 330i instead of the 2.93 in a manual. That would change the low down response and pep at the expense of some top speed and fuel economy.

I never did that on my old 330i but it was something I did in my E36 328i - went from standard 2.93 open diff to a 3.15 LSD.....and then was lucky to get a rare 3.07 LSD ( autobox car )
The 3.07 was a great compromise - still good cruising and mpg

That was over the space of 7 years when E36 bits were quite cheap and everyone wanted a newer E46 330i