F31 335d remap - do I need to do this?
Discussion
I'm in the fortunate position of having an F31 335d with plenty of options that I'm very happy with. I have ben recently tempted to start looking at the remapping options (boredom rather than feeling power os lacking), and for about £1k I can get the power increased from 316bhp to approx 390bhp, and also have revised insurance cover to accommodate this.
The cost isn't an issue, but am wondering if there any others that have spent the money, and can confirm whether they have felt this was a worthwhile upgrade? The car is already pretty quick, does it need to be any quicker (this is PH, so am expecting any responses to say 'YESSSSS!'), and is it worth he cost?
The cost isn't an issue, but am wondering if there any others that have spent the money, and can confirm whether they have felt this was a worthwhile upgrade? The car is already pretty quick, does it need to be any quicker (this is PH, so am expecting any responses to say 'YESSSSS!'), and is it worth he cost?
MHB said:
I'm in the fortunate position of having an F31 335d with plenty of options that I'm very happy with. I have ben recently tempted to start looking at the remapping options (boredom rather than feeling power os lacking), and for about £1k I can get the power increased from 316bhp to approx 390bhp, and also have revised insurance cover to accommodate this.
The cost isn't an issue, but am wondering if there any others that have spent the money, and can confirm whether they have felt this was a worthwhile upgrade? The car is already pretty quick, does it need to be any quicker (this is PH, so am expecting any responses to say 'YESSSSS!'), and is it worth he cost?
I have the same car and, as mine came out of warranty last month, I've also been contemplating a remap. There are plenty of people out there who offer them but just be aware the official torque limit of the gearbox is 700Nm; a lot of remaps take the peak figure beyond that so perhaps something to consider, especially if you're thinking of keeping the car long-term?The cost isn't an issue, but am wondering if there any others that have spent the money, and can confirm whether they have felt this was a worthwhile upgrade? The car is already pretty quick, does it need to be any quicker (this is PH, so am expecting any responses to say 'YESSSSS!'), and is it worth he cost?
I haven't had a remap done on mine and to be honest I'm not sure I will. The occasions where I feel the car isn't fast enough on the public road are few and far between and in truth I think I'd better spending my money on a set of ACS springs to help sort the suspension before trying to make the car any quicker! However, in reality I'll probably keep my F31 standard and get rid of it in favour of a suitable petrol once I've decided what my requirements are and what I want.
Whether the cost of a remap is worth it is something only you can decide; you can probably have one done with someone reputable (Evolve, E-maps) for around £500 which won't break the bank and will certainly make the car faster. Does it need to be? You can never have too much but, as I say, I find mine quick enough for normal road use the vast majority of the time!
Waste of money IMHO.
The car you have is fast enough for public roads including overtaking. Remap in my view can cause early component failure, won’t make the family car handle like a sports car and it will be more difficult to sell (idea of being abused, etc)
I have a 340i and have no intention of remapping to get 400bhp. What I will do is, if I feel the need coming changing car I will go for something designed to have more power say an M3 or better still a 911, in my case anyway.
It’s ypur money and certainly it’s an inexpensive option but I would’ve thinking of improving handling as well as remapping in your case. But then it becomes more expensive hence just buy a faster car next time... my 10pc
The car you have is fast enough for public roads including overtaking. Remap in my view can cause early component failure, won’t make the family car handle like a sports car and it will be more difficult to sell (idea of being abused, etc)
I have a 340i and have no intention of remapping to get 400bhp. What I will do is, if I feel the need coming changing car I will go for something designed to have more power say an M3 or better still a 911, in my case anyway.
It’s ypur money and certainly it’s an inexpensive option but I would’ve thinking of improving handling as well as remapping in your case. But then it becomes more expensive hence just buy a faster car next time... my 10pc
I didn't remap my 335i for the reasons given by the other responders.
Stock power was sufficient for the chassis (even with decent tires) when it came to fun on the b-roads. In fact I'd go further, it was too powerful a car to lack better chassis/suspension and LSD to max those situations.
For sheer extra grunt, in a 'straight line,' I was still tempted and it did think of Evolve. But it was flipping fast anyway as a daily driver and did what I needed it to in the real world.
Yours stock, is faster still
I sold it and got a M3
Stock power was sufficient for the chassis (even with decent tires) when it came to fun on the b-roads. In fact I'd go further, it was too powerful a car to lack better chassis/suspension and LSD to max those situations.
For sheer extra grunt, in a 'straight line,' I was still tempted and it did think of Evolve. But it was flipping fast anyway as a daily driver and did what I needed it to in the real world.
Yours stock, is faster still
I sold it and got a M3
I had a 330d remapped by DMS. The remap and their service was awesome .... did I keep it on the car - no ! It made it too quick to enjoy on roads. The car was a hoot with it but I actually preferred the feel of the standard power which I could exploit a lot more than the remapped version.
I have an M240i now and that can be JB4'd to say 400bhp and I will not be doing it. It is quick enough for the roads. I would love a 335d if I did lots of miles and if I had one I would not remap. DMS are great but the mapped version of my 330d (245bhp to 305bhp) meant the big hit of torque low down spun up the wheels and was generally just too much to exploit much. I know you have 4wd but you will find the effortless speed and acceleration of your car is compromised.
I have an M240i now and that can be JB4'd to say 400bhp and I will not be doing it. It is quick enough for the roads. I would love a 335d if I did lots of miles and if I had one I would not remap. DMS are great but the mapped version of my 330d (245bhp to 305bhp) meant the big hit of torque low down spun up the wheels and was generally just too much to exploit much. I know you have 4wd but you will find the effortless speed and acceleration of your car is compromised.
My 2p.
Most tuners are muppets, even the apparently reputable ones.
Many buy in knowledge, or maps, or just don't grasp the holistic methodology the oems or any engine tuner should employ.
Letting them near something as complex as a modern 6 pot diesel integrated with an 8 spd auto and awd system is a recipe for a car that might do undesirable things at inopportune times.
Tricks such as decalibrating could be rife, and leave all manner of control tables out of whack.
Even if they're opening up standard limiters, manufacturers don't populate all their tables with viable and workable values out to these revealed ranges!
The most important thing a customer should know about a tune, is what isn't done right. What the compromises were.
That's the thing almost all tuners don't want to tell you which is very wrong.
Extending on from that issue of tuners being muppets, most over-quote figures and also tune for peaks, not driveability or what feels nice.
They might say otherwise, but remember they're muppets.
So in this case 313bhp > 390bhp sounds great, but in practice perhaps it's 375bhp.
From that 25bhp might come from enriching the burn, some from soi tweaks, and then the rest from upping boost.
Upping boost increases dynamic from initial torque to peak torque.
Even if a richer burn and tweaked soi improve turbo turbine energy and improve lag, the jump fromoff to full boost is larger.
That jump is detected bundled up in your perception of lag.
This jump also can feel great, and make it feel faster, but in time and depending on your sensibilities (if you appreciate an s54b32 you'll not like it) it'll be seen for what it is, s
t.
Further, tuners just add torque everywhere.
So that means no consideration is made for the delivery of power over the rev range, the apparent consistency of wot response at various rpms etc.
Ok it's not needed here in absolute terms, but the qualities that mean you can rev match on downshifts are still a virtue in a good auto diesel.
It may be that you could tune for 10% more torque at 2-3k, keep 1-2k standard but improve response only, and really crank up the top end making it 'feel' revvier and faster.
This results in superior performance, more linear 'petrol' feel, and reduced component impact.
It might not have 'insta' fast feeling, but that's not a virtue any way imo.
So leave it standard.
Most tuners are muppets, even the apparently reputable ones.
Many buy in knowledge, or maps, or just don't grasp the holistic methodology the oems or any engine tuner should employ.
Letting them near something as complex as a modern 6 pot diesel integrated with an 8 spd auto and awd system is a recipe for a car that might do undesirable things at inopportune times.
Tricks such as decalibrating could be rife, and leave all manner of control tables out of whack.
Even if they're opening up standard limiters, manufacturers don't populate all their tables with viable and workable values out to these revealed ranges!
The most important thing a customer should know about a tune, is what isn't done right. What the compromises were.
That's the thing almost all tuners don't want to tell you which is very wrong.
Extending on from that issue of tuners being muppets, most over-quote figures and also tune for peaks, not driveability or what feels nice.
They might say otherwise, but remember they're muppets.
So in this case 313bhp > 390bhp sounds great, but in practice perhaps it's 375bhp.
From that 25bhp might come from enriching the burn, some from soi tweaks, and then the rest from upping boost.
Upping boost increases dynamic from initial torque to peak torque.
Even if a richer burn and tweaked soi improve turbo turbine energy and improve lag, the jump fromoff to full boost is larger.
That jump is detected bundled up in your perception of lag.
This jump also can feel great, and make it feel faster, but in time and depending on your sensibilities (if you appreciate an s54b32 you'll not like it) it'll be seen for what it is, s
t.Further, tuners just add torque everywhere.
So that means no consideration is made for the delivery of power over the rev range, the apparent consistency of wot response at various rpms etc.
Ok it's not needed here in absolute terms, but the qualities that mean you can rev match on downshifts are still a virtue in a good auto diesel.
It may be that you could tune for 10% more torque at 2-3k, keep 1-2k standard but improve response only, and really crank up the top end making it 'feel' revvier and faster.
This results in superior performance, more linear 'petrol' feel, and reduced component impact.
It might not have 'insta' fast feeling, but that's not a virtue any way imo.
So leave it standard.
I’d love to do it in mine for the same 390bhp - however firstly a proper DMS or Hartech or Birds remap is not cheap and whatever anyone says about it being harmless if you use the power it adds more stress than the components were designed for - reducing life by some measure either drastically or hardly at all (or you could be unlucky that an existing fault undetectable suddenly fails).
Never really thought I needed more power.
The 390bhp upgrade does give you 0-60 in around 3.5s but will definitely cause premature drivetrain failure if used on a regular basis.
ACS piggyback style powet upgrade doesn't invalidate your warranty, and while expensive is easily removable on sale.
Personally I'm definitely going for egr valve delete ( I've lots of probs in the past) and maybe an economy tune
The 390bhp upgrade does give you 0-60 in around 3.5s but will definitely cause premature drivetrain failure if used on a regular basis.
ACS piggyback style powet upgrade doesn't invalidate your warranty, and while expensive is easily removable on sale.
Personally I'm definitely going for egr valve delete ( I've lots of probs in the past) and maybe an economy tune
DMS are ste.
Remapping is worth it IMO.
As for component failure, zf boxes are strong.
My friend is running 900nm through an old 6 speed tiptronic zf box without issue.
You gain response everywhere. The feel of performance is huge.
My friend has an f31 335dx and he said it "felt like a rocketship" when mapped.
My own car is at 187k and twice factory HP (170hp/275lb ft and now 340hp/465lb ft).
Mechanically nothing major has failed that you wouldn't expect.
I've owned 3 cars all have been high mileage and all have been fine.
Proper tuners can tailor the package to what you want. So if you want an OEM type feel up to say 2500rpm that can be done.
My personal tuner writes all his software himself and is truly custom. He is not a large brand, he is completely independant.
If you want his contact details he is based in Windsor
te.Remapping is worth it IMO.
As for component failure, zf boxes are strong.
My friend is running 900nm through an old 6 speed tiptronic zf box without issue.
You gain response everywhere. The feel of performance is huge.
My friend has an f31 335dx and he said it "felt like a rocketship" when mapped.
My own car is at 187k and twice factory HP (170hp/275lb ft and now 340hp/465lb ft).
Mechanically nothing major has failed that you wouldn't expect.
I've owned 3 cars all have been high mileage and all have been fine.
Proper tuners can tailor the package to what you want. So if you want an OEM type feel up to say 2500rpm that can be done.
My personal tuner writes all his software himself and is truly custom. He is not a large brand, he is completely independant.
If you want his contact details he is based in Windsor
https://www.avontuning.co.uk/ in bristol has been recommended to me - if in the SW England
http://www.more-bhp.com/ - if in the north of England
http://www.more-bhp.com/ - if in the north of England
If anyone does more than a few ecu and engine combos, they're buying info/maps in.
Also ask if they're decompiling ecu binaries to understand how they work.
Curious too how much testing they do.
Ie, a demo car you can try? Their own demo car with tens of thousands of miles on it?
Oem do this, but tuners are so ace they don't need to, and do a better job than oem. Hmmm.
No doubt the tunes get results, but I'd want good results for the right reasons.
I'd find a tuner who is both willing to, and can tell you, start to finish, exactly what and why they change ever LUT and value in the ECU.
If they can't, they're charging you £££ for not much.
Also ask if they're decompiling ecu binaries to understand how they work.
Curious too how much testing they do.
Ie, a demo car you can try? Their own demo car with tens of thousands of miles on it?
Oem do this, but tuners are so ace they don't need to, and do a better job than oem. Hmmm.
No doubt the tunes get results, but I'd want good results for the right reasons.
I'd find a tuner who is both willing to, and can tell you, start to finish, exactly what and why they change ever LUT and value in the ECU.
If they can't, they're charging you £££ for not much.
tjlees said:
Never really thought I needed more power.
The 390bhp upgrade does give you 0-60 in around 3.5s but will definitely cause premature drivetrain failure if used on a regular basis.
ACS piggyback style powet upgrade doesn't invalidate your warranty, and while expensive is easily removable on sale.
Personally I'm definitely going for egr valve delete ( I've lots of probs in the past) and maybe an economy tune
Since when does 390bhp in a heavy car get you 3.5 seconds to 62mph - never. The 390bhp upgrade does give you 0-60 in around 3.5s but will definitely cause premature drivetrain failure if used on a regular basis.
ACS piggyback style powet upgrade doesn't invalidate your warranty, and while expensive is easily removable on sale.
Personally I'm definitely going for egr valve delete ( I've lots of probs in the past) and maybe an economy tune
xjay1337 said:
DMS are ste.
Remapping is worth it IMO.
As for component failure, zf boxes are strong.
My friend is running 900nm through an old 6 speed tiptronic zf box without issue.
You gain response everywhere. The feel of performance is huge.
My friend has an f31 335dx and he said it "felt like a rocketship" when mapped.
My own car is at 187k and twice factory HP (170hp/275lb ft and now 340hp/465lb ft).
Mechanically nothing major has failed that you wouldn't expect.
I've owned 3 cars all have been high mileage and all have been fine.
Proper tuners can tailor the package to what you want. So if you want an OEM type feel up to say 2500rpm that can be done.
My personal tuner writes all his software himself and is truly custom. He is not a large brand, he is completely independant.
If you want his contact details he is based in Windsor
I’ve not ever heard DMS are ste.Remapping is worth it IMO.
As for component failure, zf boxes are strong.
My friend is running 900nm through an old 6 speed tiptronic zf box without issue.
You gain response everywhere. The feel of performance is huge.
My friend has an f31 335dx and he said it "felt like a rocketship" when mapped.
My own car is at 187k and twice factory HP (170hp/275lb ft and now 340hp/465lb ft).
Mechanically nothing major has failed that you wouldn't expect.
I've owned 3 cars all have been high mileage and all have been fine.
Proper tuners can tailor the package to what you want. So if you want an OEM type feel up to say 2500rpm that can be done.
My personal tuner writes all his software himself and is truly custom. He is not a large brand, he is completely independant.
If you want his contact details he is based in Windsor
te beforeThey offer full OEM warranty for component failure if you remap within OEM warranty “bob round the corner doesn’t”. They remap top end Sports and super Cars bob your mate wouldn’t get a look in.
They have a great reputation
What evidence do you have to say DMS are “s
t”? Or is it simply that they are at the high end of the market and you personally think a £300 remap is the same ?Interesting range of views, and am genuinely surprised by the number of people saying it wouldn't be a wise choice and would detract from the smoothness of the standard car.
I agree that the car is quick enough as standard, but an extra 75bhp could enhance the enjoyment - and for a modest outlay, this seems good value for money. I understand the comments about purchasing a car designed for more power, rather than remapping - but this would equate to an M3 which they don't do in estate form, or an AMG C63 which is a totally different animal. The 335d is a sub 5 seconds 0-60 car with the option of 50mpg on a motorway run, and can't see the AMG C63 getting anywhere near this. I believed the remap to 390bhp would improve the acceleration to around 4 seconds with the 4wd, which is mighty quick and still give the opportunity of decent mpg with a light right foot.
It was DMS that I was considering for the remap, on the basis of that I believed was a good reputation - but there are a couple of comments that call this into question. Definitely food for thought.
Many thanks for all the responses.
I agree that the car is quick enough as standard, but an extra 75bhp could enhance the enjoyment - and for a modest outlay, this seems good value for money. I understand the comments about purchasing a car designed for more power, rather than remapping - but this would equate to an M3 which they don't do in estate form, or an AMG C63 which is a totally different animal. The 335d is a sub 5 seconds 0-60 car with the option of 50mpg on a motorway run, and can't see the AMG C63 getting anywhere near this. I believed the remap to 390bhp would improve the acceleration to around 4 seconds with the 4wd, which is mighty quick and still give the opportunity of decent mpg with a light right foot.
It was DMS that I was considering for the remap, on the basis of that I believed was a good reputation - but there are a couple of comments that call this into question. Definitely food for thought.
Many thanks for all the responses.
Welshbeef said:
Since when does 390bhp in a heavy car get you 3.5 seconds to 62mph - never.
See http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...
Ecotune did the tune.
The last thing a F31 335d needs is more power there is already too much for the chassis and brakes, the car is great in a straight line but it all falls apart when you get to a corner, the car dives under braking as you turn in (the brakes are also soft and spongy), the car heaves and rolls refusing to settle through the corner (god forbid that there is a mid corner bump as it will really upset the car)
Arriving a few mph faster at the bend will just make the experience worse.
The 335d is nice because you get the good looks with 300bhp, auto and awd, but also get nice softer suspension.
But why you'd want to make it really fast when that speed comes with no improvement in involvement or chassis capability is beyond me.
IF it were underpowered or over-chassied then fine, but it's clearly not. It's kinda perfect bar tweaks.
The most I might do is tweak it so over 3000rpm the power tapers in to maybe 360bhp, good for overtaking mainly, but no more torque loading.
If you go for it it's got extra, but why the obsession with low end torque with 8spd auto?
If I end up getting a 3yr old one I'll be having a tinker anyhow, but the goal will be making it drive more like an NA petrol, not just making it really fast and uninspiring.
But why you'd want to make it really fast when that speed comes with no improvement in involvement or chassis capability is beyond me.
IF it were underpowered or over-chassied then fine, but it's clearly not. It's kinda perfect bar tweaks.
The most I might do is tweak it so over 3000rpm the power tapers in to maybe 360bhp, good for overtaking mainly, but no more torque loading.
If you go for it it's got extra, but why the obsession with low end torque with 8spd auto?
If I end up getting a 3yr old one I'll be having a tinker anyhow, but the goal will be making it drive more like an NA petrol, not just making it really fast and uninspiring.
tjlees said:
Welshbeef said:
Since when does 390bhp in a heavy car get you 3.5 seconds to 62mph - never.
See http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...
Ecotune did the tune.
Mighty impressive
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff