Auto Transmission Servicing - A good idea

[gizlaroc]

davettf2 said:

Gavarnie said:

I've got a 17 year old E46 too (325i) - and it's only done 12,000 miles from new. One previous owner, full BMW service history but previously mostly used in central London.

Not sure how long I will keep it so I'm genuinely in two minds about spending £ on flushing/servicing the auto but can see that it may well be worth it from a preventative maintenance point of view.

But - wearing my "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" hat, are there any potential downsides (even if the job's done by a reputable indy) ? Triggers some some mechanical or electronic failure for example.

In a lot of respects a fair point, it is a personal choice weighing up the risk / reward of getting it done. One thing I would say is that there is a risk as there are a lot of small galleries in the valve mechanism. Against this is the fact that the oil in the box ies 15 years + old with the issues of not only age but also possible condensation contamination etc. In addition there are two options - option one involves draining the box, replacing the filter and topping-up, but this will only replace about 65% of the oil as the TC holds the rest. Better than nothing and normally resolves most "sticky" boxes. You could, of course, run the box for a few miles to get the oil mixed up and drain/refill again, which would get you up to about 85% changed, but keep that one as a secondary option.

The alternative is to go down a full flush service but this uses two different oils (flushing and box), lots of it and someone who has the right kit. It is also much more expensive. Probably only need if you have an issue. I did in that the box occasionally would show a transmission fault when first starting off unless warmed up for a couple of minutes.

Finally, if you do go down the route of getting it done, use someone with a sound reputation that knows what they are doing.

If you undo the line from the transmission into the transmission cooler you can empty the fluid out completely.

You will need to pump in new oil into the cooler.

You will need around 12-15 litres to push out all the old crap and get nice clear fluid coming out.

This can be done at home with a 5l garden pump.

Also, you can buy 20l of ZF6 fluid for around £80 delivered.

You will not have to replace the filter at all.

[caduceus]

gizlaroc said:

For me I drain out from sump, then if the sump comes off OK change the filter, then I under the cooler line and have a hose going into a bucket and use a 5l garden pump to pump to push all the old fluid out, usually takes around 15l to come through completely clean.
Do the cooler up, get it to temp, top up as normal to get the levels right.
Reset adaptations.
Job done.

Feels like a brand new gear box.

Total cost was £100 in fluid and a 5L garden sprayer pump and some clear hose, we bought two 10L drums of ZF6 transmission fluid from eBay for £80 delivered.
Dead easy to do on your drive in 40 minutes or so.

You make it sound so easy...
Are there any tutorial vids kicking around on YouTube of this particular job?

[gizlaroc]

caduceus said:

You make it sound so easy...
Are there any tutorial vids kicking around on YouTube of this particular job?

The whole system is on a loop, so it stands to reason that if you undo part of that loop and pump clean fluid in it will push the dirty stuff out.


I just looked around, this gives you an idea, although think he has made it over complicated.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xj-xj6-xj8-xjr-...




Simply undo cooler pipe going into cooler from transmission.
Put that hose into a container with litres marked on it.
Put the hose from your new fluid (be it via an electric pump or compression pump) into the cooler.
For every litre you pump out (will pump out with engine running) add a litre of new fluid.

That really is all there is to it.

[Binned It]

To add my experience to this thread, I decided to get my ZF8 serviced as it was just reaching 70k miles, shifting was fine but I want to keep the car a while so thought it was best as preventative maintenance.

I used a garage on the ZF aftermarket network, paid around £450 including new sump, filter and oils. Afterwards I noticed pretty much straight away that something wasn't right, shifting had become rougher, sometimes the box would be slow to select a gear and on a couple of occasions ended up selecting the same gear it was trying to shift out of.

I took it back and was told everything was fine. Now I've just had it looked at by a local gearbox chap and it turns out they hadn't put enough oil in it. Oil was topped up and now it's perfect, even better than when I first got it.

Point I'm trying to make is yes servicing is a good idea, it's made noticeable improvement, just be careful where you get it done. Just because its a ZF approved garage doesn't mean you're going to get it done right.

[prand]

A bit of a resurrection here. Very interesting reading about transmission servicing, something I'd not really considered before. Although I had bit of a catastrophe with with a Jaguar XJ8 gearbox a few years ago...

I've just bought an Audi A6 Bitdi, with 67k miles at a nice price. Very pleased with it, engine and gearbox performs, from what I can tell, very well.

But service history is a bit mind boggling. It has a pretty detailed dealer service history, but only appears to have had 2 oil services in its life, with the next due in 6k miles.

Strangely, it has had more brake fluid inspections and changes (by all accounts within, requested by the car itself and by service schedules) than engine oil, I can't remember the last time I did this with a car apart from when changing pads & discs (which this car also has had)

I presume what seems to be bonkers oil service intervals are due to previous owner(s) not being too arsed and selected long life (20k ish miles) servicing and last 2 years the car's only driven about 8k miles, service indicator has still 6k miles to go. No mention of gearbox oil change, predictably.

So fingers crossed that this previous 'abuse' doesn't manifest in my ownership, I'm going to change the engine oil ASAP, and it seems that the ZF 8hp box is around the right time to be serviced as well (ZF state 100,000km for the 8 speed). I'm also thinking, and have read, that it wouldn't do any harm to change the diff/quattro system oil too.

From what I read about the subject, I am leaning towards a gearbox specialist to do this work, mainly because they seem to know what they do with these specific components, and I ought to have some direct comeback if things go wrong.

CCM in Cranleigh seem promising, and another, 3D transmissions in Reading are recommended too.

It would be great if anyone on here has experience of these places, or can suggest anyone in Berks/Surrey.

[bigdom]

Unlike BMW, it's on the VAG service schedule, recommended to be changed every 40k. Far more options on who change can it, main dealers & specialists will be well versed in doing it.

[Touring442]

bigdom said:

Unlike BMW, it's on the VAG service schedule, recommended to be changed every 40k. Far more options on who change can it, main dealers & specialists will be well versed in doing it.

I think that's just for Multichronic stuff, not the proper ZF auto.

[prand]

Touring442 said:

I think that's just for Multichronic stuff, not the proper ZF auto.

Thats what I think too. VW and other DSG/dual clutch/multitronic autos seem to need earlier & regular servicing, and on my searches, seem like they do need the regular attention too due to issues, consequently I guess a lot more places are more experienced servicing and troubleshooting for them.

I seem to have chosen well with a BiTdi, it comes with the Steptronic ZF 8 speed, which is built to handle the higher torque of the Bitdi engine (which hits 640NM) , and is comparatively reliable to the multitronic used extensively in other variants in the A6 range (as well as other VW/Audi model).

[S8QUATTRO]

I had mine done at 198k miles, second gearbox sump/filter and fluids. 6hp26 transmission in 2009 635d.

Preventative maintenance, sumps and fluid are £120 inc vat and delivered so was a no brainer. The round sleeve connector thing was about £20 for a ZF one.

[Patrick Bateman]

gizlaroc said:

Also, you can buy 20l of ZF6 fluid for around £80 delivered.

You will not have to replace the filter at all.

Where's that from??

[naturalaspiration]

If not already replaced, also replace the square mechatronic seal as a minimum, or best the whole set - the four sleeves and the connector (pictured in one of the previous posts)- fresh rubber seals are always welcome. Once done, reset gearbox adaptations via INPA. Then drive moderately for some time to let gearbox learn again when it needs to shift etc.

Edited by naturalaspiration on Tuesday 15th February 12:51

[Jakg]

naturalaspiration said:

If not already replaced, also replace the square mechatronic seal as a minimum, or best the whole set - the four sleeves and the connector (pictured in one of the previous posts)- fresh rubber seals are always welcome. Once done, reset gearbox adaptations via INPA. Then drive moderately for some time to let gearbox learn again when it needs to shift etc.

Edited by naturalaspiration on Tuesday 15th February 12:51

It's suggested that adaptations should only be reset after major servicing (e.g. solenoid or clutch replacement), not just after a service, as these are the parts that actually wear.

https://www.facebook.com/xhpflashtool/posts/192376...cft__[0]=AZVYqm_mnB_oYWCvg-xTbXftJdU8OflKUkfMvDdwtyCTDeOFiE5ic6yNk8kdvbB7Q0SFe8FK17Ten0yi2nJLr3oEHscSqA6tk8JM6NX-67yggHL05I1UbMUUTac1DI0ESCoGkJZfGNtTIZWeIyvuN00u&__tn=%2CO%2CP-R

[Jakg]

Jakg said:

naturalaspiration said:

If not already replaced, also replace the square mechatronic seal as a minimum, or best the whole set - the four sleeves and the connector (pictured in one of the previous posts)- fresh rubber seals are always welcome. Once done, reset gearbox adaptations via INPA. Then drive moderately for some time to let gearbox learn again when it needs to shift etc.

It's suggested that adaptations should only be reset after major servicing (e.g. solenoid or clutch replacement), not just after a service, as these are the parts that actually wear.

https://www.facebook.com/xhpflashtool/posts/192376...

[naturalaspiration]

Rubber sleves wear, oil viscosity changes, all this affects adaptations I was told. Can't open the link.

Edited by naturalaspiration on Tuesday 15th February 13:55