E9x 6 cylinder Diesels info

E9x 6 cylinder Diesels info

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Discussion

helix402

7,832 posts

181 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
The later M57 swirl flaps do fail, but not in a catastrophic manner like the early ones. They leak rather than break, they can be removed without issue and blanking plates fitted.

p1stonhead

25,489 posts

166 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
CIC is so far ahead of CCC in my opinion its not even funny.

I would actually have a Non-IDrive car instead of CCC. Its just so damn old looking/feeling

FWIW my 2009 325d LCI gets 40mpg seemingly no matter what I do.

I believe the 335d usually gets people early to mid 30mpg's.

Edited by p1stonhead on Wednesday 22 November 09:16

cerb4.5lee

30,177 posts

179 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
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rayyan171 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I took a 2006 E90 330d Auto from 3k miles to over 150k miles, and it was totally reliable and I didn't bother changing the gearbox oil and it still ran fine.

Regards the ZF6 Auto I hated that gearbox in my E90 330i and X5 4.8iS(very dim witted), yet it seemed to suit the 330d very well, it's as if BMW spent more time/effort programming that gearbox with the diesel engine.

The E90 330d was a brilliant all round car I thought, and it returned about 43mpg overall, highly recommended from me.
Gearbox was updated around late 20078, better software and possibly some different internals. No difference in gearbox no. though, still the ZF6HP.
I wouldn't say its dim witted in our car at least. The gears hold on a hill, changes early as well. It all does depend on your driving characteristics as well, the cars do learn how you like to drive and over time adapt the gearbox to your driving style. This can also be reset and can solve some of the dimwittedness of these gearboxes. In S mode, they are responsive indeed, kickdown is great on the motorway and really has a shove, even in an X5, so must be rapid indeed in the 335d. On the windy roads, it holds the lower gears and provides power when coming out of the corner, maintaining it in the higher revs. These are twin turbo diesels and do perform much better at higher revs, similar to a petrol - this is exactly what BMW wanted out of the 35d engine.

I'm still a bit skeptical on the reliability of the N57, it can have reliability issues similar to the N47 2.0 litre diesel, so personally I avoided it. But, its not nearly as common for timing chain failure on the N57 to happen, compared to the N47. The previous gen M57 is generally bulletproof. Later cars had the better swirl flaps that don't need blanking, but some like to do it anyway.

Fuel economy should be good. We get 25mpg out of the X5, but that is expected! A 635d however gets a true 47-50mpg combined, when doing mainly motorway miles, so the 335d should see 50mpg no problem.

Edited by rayyan171 on Wednesday 22 November 02:21
I didn't mind the ZF6 as much in the 330d and I thought it was a nice combination, I wasn't that keen on the ZF6 mated to petrol engines though.

I was impressed that the 640d I had did 40mpg regardless when you consider it's weight, I'd imagine a 335d not only feels rapid but is very frugal too.

I didn't realise the later gearboxes were updated thanks, and I bet that irons out some of the niggles from the earlier gearboxes.

PTF

4,252 posts

223 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
p1stonhead said:
CIC is so far ahead of CCC in my opinion its not even funny.

I would actually have a Non-IDrive car instead of CCC. Its just so damn old looking/feeling

FWIW my 2009 325d LCI gets 40mpg seemingly no matter what I do.

I believe the 335d usually gets people early to mid 30mpg's.

Edited by p1stonhead on Wednesday 22 November 09:16
Definitely. CCC is a negative. CIC is a positive.

When looking for my 130i i specifically ruled out any that came with nav.

SlowStig

Original Poster:

839 posts

170 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
PTF said:
p1stonhead said:
CIC is so far ahead of CCC in my opinion its not even funny.

I would actually have a Non-IDrive car instead of CCC. Its just so damn old looking/feeling

FWIW my 2009 325d LCI gets 40mpg seemingly no matter what I do.

I believe the 335d usually gets people early to mid 30mpg's.

Edited by p1stonhead on Wednesday 22 November 09:16
Definitely. CCC is a negative. CIC is a positive.

When looking for my 130i i specifically ruled out any that came with nav.
I haven't heard a single good thing about the CCC system other than it being functional. I did think that any car I found, I would budget for upgrading to the CiC system or if the car doesn't have any iDrive at all, fully installing it into the car.

MPG of the 335d is interesting though, I was hoping they could do 40mpg+ without too much grannying or sitting at 60mph on motorways etc?

Smuler

2,286 posts

138 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
I'll say something positive, about CCC : - it's better than the nav on my E46 M3 wink
But poor compared to CIC, had that 2009 335i.
However, even CIC does not automatically have 7 digit post-code search , needs firmware to have relevant update and a new enough Map software.

p1stonhead

25,489 posts

166 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
Smuler said:
I'll say something positive, about CCC : - it's better than the nav on my E46 M3 wink
But poor compared to CIC, had that 2009 335i.
However, even CIC does not automatically have 7 digit post-code search , needs firmware to have relevant update and a new enough Map software.
For reference up to date maps are £140 from BMW they put them in mine when I bought the car. Comes on USB takes about an hour to update.

Smuler

2,286 posts

138 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
p1stonhead said:
For reference up to date maps are £140 from BMW they put them in mine when I bought the car. Comes on USB takes about an hour to update.
My 2014 map, on the 335i was about 50£ with code might have just been the age but I needed DVDs and it took a nice trip through the Cotswolds to complete smile
Probably cheaper than 50£ had I just downloaded, but that did not work.

rayyan171

1,294 posts

92 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
SlowStig said:
I haven't heard a single good thing about the CCC system other than it being functional. I did think that any car I found, I would budget for upgrading to the CiC system or if the car doesn't have any iDrive at all, fully installing it into the car.

MPG of the 335d is interesting though, I was hoping they could do 40mpg+ without too much grannying or sitting at 60mph on motorways etc?
Honestly, CCC iDrive does everything CIC iDrive does, all a little bit slower. There is no real issue with having either, as I again re-iterate, I would much rather have full sport seats, M-sport package, all the good options if it came with CCC rather than get a CIC car with barely any options, or in the case of the 3 series, the possibility of cloth seats! As I did find that there were cars with Professional Navigation CIC on the 335d but then getting cloth seats, no heated seats etc.

Balance of options is key, as the CCC is still an iDrive system, and does the job good enough. It's more whether you want creature comforts, or that you're not bothered.

Mr Tidy

22,065 posts

126 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
SlowStig said:
I haven't discounted a manual, but my old one had a heavy clutch and was difficult to get between 1st and 2nd gears smoothly which was somewhat irritating!
I only just picked up on this, as I am seriously thinking of an E9* 330d - with the M57 engine which seems the better option!

But what you describe OP suggests your car had the Clutch Delay Valve still in place! I had it removed from my E46 325ti yesterday and it's like a different car - such a simple mod for minimal cost but the car is transformed! I just wish I had done it sooner. frown

PTF

4,252 posts

223 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
Mr Tidy said:
SlowStig said:
I haven't discounted a manual, but my old one had a heavy clutch and was difficult to get between 1st and 2nd gears smoothly which was somewhat irritating!
I only just picked up on this, as I am seriously thinking of an E9* 330d - with the M57 engine which seems the better option!

But what you describe OP suggests your car had the Clutch Delay Valve still in place! I had it removed from my E46 325ti yesterday and it's like a different car - such a simple mod for minimal cost but the car is transformed! I just wish I had done it sooner. frown
Finding the clutch on my 130i difficult to get on with. What's involved with removing the CDV?

cerb4.5lee

30,177 posts

179 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
PTF said:
Mr Tidy said:
SlowStig said:
I haven't discounted a manual, but my old one had a heavy clutch and was difficult to get between 1st and 2nd gears smoothly which was somewhat irritating!
I only just picked up on this, as I am seriously thinking of an E9* 330d - with the M57 engine which seems the better option!

But what you describe OP suggests your car had the Clutch Delay Valve still in place! I had it removed from my E46 325ti yesterday and it's like a different car - such a simple mod for minimal cost but the car is transformed! I just wish I had done it sooner. frown
Finding the clutch on my 130i difficult to get on with. What's involved with removing the CDV?
It does make you wonder if BMW deliberately made their manual gearboxes that poor...so that customers paid more for the Auto. I'm a big three pedal fan but Bmw's manual gearboxes frustrate me big time.


p1stonhead

25,489 posts

166 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
cerb4.5lee said:
PTF said:
Mr Tidy said:
SlowStig said:
I haven't discounted a manual, but my old one had a heavy clutch and was difficult to get between 1st and 2nd gears smoothly which was somewhat irritating!
I only just picked up on this, as I am seriously thinking of an E9* 330d - with the M57 engine which seems the better option!

But what you describe OP suggests your car had the Clutch Delay Valve still in place! I had it removed from my E46 325ti yesterday and it's like a different car - such a simple mod for minimal cost but the car is transformed! I just wish I had done it sooner. frown
Finding the clutch on my 130i difficult to get on with. What's involved with removing the CDV?
It does make you wonder if BMW deliberately made their manual gearboxes that poor...so that customers paid more for the Auto. I'm a big three pedal fan but Bmw's manual gearboxes frustrate me big time.
They are bad but have you ever driven a manual c class? It’s just as terrible.

cerb4.5lee

30,177 posts

179 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
p1stonhead said:
cerb4.5lee said:
PTF said:
Mr Tidy said:
SlowStig said:
I haven't discounted a manual, but my old one had a heavy clutch and was difficult to get between 1st and 2nd gears smoothly which was somewhat irritating!
I only just picked up on this, as I am seriously thinking of an E9* 330d - with the M57 engine which seems the better option!

But what you describe OP suggests your car had the Clutch Delay Valve still in place! I had it removed from my E46 325ti yesterday and it's like a different car - such a simple mod for minimal cost but the car is transformed! I just wish I had done it sooner. frown
Finding the clutch on my 130i difficult to get on with. What's involved with removing the CDV?
It does make you wonder if BMW deliberately made their manual gearboxes that poor...so that customers paid more for the Auto. I'm a big three pedal fan but Bmw's manual gearboxes frustrate me big time.
They are bad but have you ever driven a manual c class? It’s just as terrible.
I haven't, and it must just be a German thing then.

p1stonhead

25,489 posts

166 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
cerb4.5lee said:
p1stonhead said:
cerb4.5lee said:
PTF said:
Mr Tidy said:
SlowStig said:
I haven't discounted a manual, but my old one had a heavy clutch and was difficult to get between 1st and 2nd gears smoothly which was somewhat irritating!
I only just picked up on this, as I am seriously thinking of an E9* 330d - with the M57 engine which seems the better option!

But what you describe OP suggests your car had the Clutch Delay Valve still in place! I had it removed from my E46 325ti yesterday and it's like a different car - such a simple mod for minimal cost but the car is transformed! I just wish I had done it sooner. frown
Finding the clutch on my 130i difficult to get on with. What's involved with removing the CDV?
It does make you wonder if BMW deliberately made their manual gearboxes that poor...so that customers paid more for the Auto. I'm a big three pedal fan but Bmw's manual gearboxes frustrate me big time.
They are bad but have you ever driven a manual c class? It’s just as terrible.
I haven't, and it must just be a German thing then.
I think (other than M’s and AMG’s), they probably just don’t sell very many manuals so perhaps can’t be bothered to invest in the normal ones too much?

cerb4.5lee

30,177 posts

179 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
p1stonhead said:
cerb4.5lee said:
p1stonhead said:
cerb4.5lee said:
PTF said:
Mr Tidy said:
SlowStig said:
I haven't discounted a manual, but my old one had a heavy clutch and was difficult to get between 1st and 2nd gears smoothly which was somewhat irritating!
I only just picked up on this, as I am seriously thinking of an E9* 330d - with the M57 engine which seems the better option!

But what you describe OP suggests your car had the Clutch Delay Valve still in place! I had it removed from my E46 325ti yesterday and it's like a different car - such a simple mod for minimal cost but the car is transformed! I just wish I had done it sooner. frown
Finding the clutch on my 130i difficult to get on with. What's involved with removing the CDV?
It does make you wonder if BMW deliberately made their manual gearboxes that poor...so that customers paid more for the Auto. I'm a big three pedal fan but Bmw's manual gearboxes frustrate me big time.
They are bad but have you ever driven a manual c class? It’s just as terrible.
I haven't, and it must just be a German thing then.
I think (other than M’s and AMG’s), they probably just don’t sell very many manuals so perhaps can’t be bothered to invest in the normal ones too much?
That could be the case to be fair, Bmw invested heavily with it's DCT gearbox, and I've had both the Z4M/E92 M3 with manual gearboxes...so I can understand why they needed to!! biglaugh

JakeT

5,406 posts

119 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
The CDV was introduced to help prevent Dual mass flywheels being ruined if the clutch is dropped suddenly. Removing it is a simple job, but requires the car in the air and the ability to bleed the clutch.

SlowStig

Original Poster:

839 posts

170 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
JakeT said:
The CDV was introduced to help prevent Dual mass flywheels being ruined if the clutch is dropped suddenly. Removing it is a simple job, but requires the car in the air and the ability to bleed the clutch.
Would that make the clutch lighter to press and easier to use in traffic...?

Sir_Dave

1,494 posts

209 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
SlowStig said:
Can the thumb paddles be changed to the other type?
They can be, but its easier to just switch a couple of wires on the left hand paddle... Now instead of "pull for up, push for down" on both paddles, i have "pull for up, push for down" on the right, then "pull for down, push for up" on the left - so its just like DSG/DCT etc, but you can still go up/down the box using 1 paddle only.

I bought an LCI e92 330d recently, is the Highline model and came with CIC nav etc. It is better than the CCC i had in my M3, but i think that is most down to the controller, which you can retrofit to the older CCC version. I was initially after a 335d, but was concerned about having 2 turbos to fail instead of 1 hehe This one popped up fairly local so i went & bought it.

Auto definitely suits the derv more than the petrol, the 330i needs revs to move & the box whilst pretty quick, is no ZF 8 speed, judging by the amount of torque the car has, you could probably get away with having a 3 speed box & not notice much of a difference!!

Im very impressed, having come from an 8V Audi RS3, it doesnt seem like much of a downgrade tbh, bar not being able to read the daily news whilst sat in traffic, but ill sort that soon by retrofitting a combox yes

MJ85

1,849 posts

173 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
I bought a low mileage, very high spec M57 330D E91 M-Sport manual, earlier this year.

It has needed an aux tensioner and an alternator.

Other than that, it really feels fantastic and is doing a great job of getting me around the country. The clutch is relatively heavy though, but you know this already.

For me, reliability was key, hence M57 and manual were a winning combo.

Good luck with your search.