bmw timing chain problem
Discussion
iSore said:
N52 etc - the same chain and guides as the N4x but they don't give aggro.
Just checked online:N52 chain is shared with N20, N26, N51, N55, S55 (F series M3, M4, M4GTS), NOT shared with any N4x engine.
N43 chain is shared with N53, N54, N54T
N42 chain is shared with N46
N47 chain is shared with N57, and the very latest, currently built B47 and B57 engines. The infamous one. Revised over the years and now on it's hopefully final 5th revision dated 01/03/2014 - so far so good it seems.
firemac said:
But surely by now they have modified the guides, etc in the replacement engines?
Guides are the same - never changed. Chain has had 3 revisions, the last one came out in 04/2013 but the previous version was used until well into 2015 for some reason.Also chain tensioner was revised 3 times - last revision came out in 08/2016.naturalaspiration said:
Guides are the same - never changed. Chain has had 3 revisions, the last one came out in 04/2013 but the previous version was used until well into 2015 for some reason.Also chain tensioner was revised 3 times - last revision came out in 08/2016.
Thanks for the info. Logically I keep thinking that there must be thousands of these engines hammering around all over the world and many of them must operate OK. I assume that a more sympathetic, annual, for example, servicing regime will prolong the integrity of the engine rather than BMW's condition-based plan.naturalaspiration said:
N43 chain is shared with N53, N54, N54T
..and yet you never hear of timing chain or guide problems on the n53 or n54 engines - wonder why the n43 engine is affected and not those. Oil flow differences, cylinder pulses, different oil pump design? Certainly both engines are pushing a lot more power out *and* the longer cam shafts and double vanos presumably more strain. Not sure (don't think?) the HPFP's are driven by the cam chain.It's got to be due to the inherent engine imbalance of the inline 4 cylinder engine vs inline 6 - primarily poor secondary engine balance (pistons accelerating/slowing down) and 4 firing vs 6 firing per two crankshaft turns - more pronounced acceleration/deceleration hence bigger reciprocating forces on the crankshaft - leading to chain and cogs wear - Also I4 vibrates more resulting in (now stretched) chain slapping harder against the tensioner. Every little helps...
Long read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_balance
Long read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_balance
I've read a few online articles that seem to suggest that the N43 design is marginal in that it relies more heavily than before on its oil to protect the engine mainly from heat as it runs hotter than previous BMW units. Apparently this situation is exascerbated by BMW's insistance on condition-based servicing that stretches the oil's performance envelope to rediculous levels leading to carbon build-up and consequent oil starvation issues.
There are folks who have no doubts about the N43 as long as it receives quality oil and filters at yearly intervals, at least; or earlier for higher mileage. I'd like to think that this could be the way forward with our new engine but it's s bit hard to accept that this is a "golden bullet" to ensure longevity. I don't mistreat my vehicles and probably only do about 5K miles per year now so the new engine could presumably get an easy time of it from here on in - and to be fair, the original owner may have had no mechanical sympathy whatsoever and that may have contributed to the failure.
I understand that IL4 engines are not mechanically as balanced as a straight 6 or a V8 but I can't see how the characteristics of an IL4 would contribute to its failure. After all there are some sweet 4s around, particularly the Japanese ones. Hondas are known for their dynamic smoothness and we are also on our 5th Toyota RAV4 with the VVTi petrol engine and that unit is an absolute peach. Not especially economical but in terms of smoothness, power and reliability, it is about the best engine I have experienced in nearly 50 years of driving. Surely BMW aren't so far adrift of them??
There are folks who have no doubts about the N43 as long as it receives quality oil and filters at yearly intervals, at least; or earlier for higher mileage. I'd like to think that this could be the way forward with our new engine but it's s bit hard to accept that this is a "golden bullet" to ensure longevity. I don't mistreat my vehicles and probably only do about 5K miles per year now so the new engine could presumably get an easy time of it from here on in - and to be fair, the original owner may have had no mechanical sympathy whatsoever and that may have contributed to the failure.
I understand that IL4 engines are not mechanically as balanced as a straight 6 or a V8 but I can't see how the characteristics of an IL4 would contribute to its failure. After all there are some sweet 4s around, particularly the Japanese ones. Hondas are known for their dynamic smoothness and we are also on our 5th Toyota RAV4 with the VVTi petrol engine and that unit is an absolute peach. Not especially economical but in terms of smoothness, power and reliability, it is about the best engine I have experienced in nearly 50 years of driving. Surely BMW aren't so far adrift of them??
BMW is known to be pushing the envelope as far as possible with regards to making everything as efficient (light) as possible. Hence electrical water pumps, magnesium crank cases, valvetronics, high operating temperatures, turbos inside the V8...the efficiency requirements are mostly in direct conflict with longevity requirements. Who wins in today's consumer world and EU's increasingly punitive penalties for exceeding ever sinking emission targets...as to the N43 engine, I would wholeheartedly recommend using LM Ceratec. I have been using it for 5 years now on all my now stellar mileage cars - I have it in the engine, gearbox and diff (non slip). By all means do your own research.
firemac said:
I've read a few online articles that seem to suggest that the N43 design is marginal in that it relies more heavily than before on its oil to protect the engine mainly from heat as it runs hotter than previous BMW units. Apparently this situation is exascerbated by BMW's insistance on condition-based servicing that stretches the oil's performance envelope to rediculous levels leading to carbon build-up and consequent oil starvation issues.
There are folks who have no doubts about the N43 as long as it receives quality oil and filters at yearly intervals, at least; or earlier for higher mileage. I'd like to think that this could be the way forward with our new engine but it's s bit hard to accept that this is a "golden bullet" to ensure longevity. I don't mistreat my vehicles and probably only do about 5K miles per year now so the new engine could presumably get an easy time of it from here on in - and to be fair, the original owner may have had no mechanical sympathy whatsoever and that may have contributed to the failure.
I understand that IL4 engines are not mechanically as balanced as a straight 6 or a V8 but I can't see how the characteristics of an IL4 would contribute to its failure. After all there are some sweet 4s around, particularly the Japanese ones. Hondas are known for their dynamic smoothness and we are also on our 5th Toyota RAV4 with the VVTi petrol engine and that unit is an absolute peach. Not especially economical but in terms of smoothness, power and reliability, it is about the best engine I have experienced in nearly 50 years of driving. Surely BMW aren't so far adrift of them??
No, they're just crap. They fail at 25-30'000 miles with FSH. The chain guides were revised over the N46 and just aren't very good. Some do 100'000 or more but there is always the spectre of other expensive faults such as injectors or the NoX sensor. They're to be avoided. There are folks who have no doubts about the N43 as long as it receives quality oil and filters at yearly intervals, at least; or earlier for higher mileage. I'd like to think that this could be the way forward with our new engine but it's s bit hard to accept that this is a "golden bullet" to ensure longevity. I don't mistreat my vehicles and probably only do about 5K miles per year now so the new engine could presumably get an easy time of it from here on in - and to be fair, the original owner may have had no mechanical sympathy whatsoever and that may have contributed to the failure.
I understand that IL4 engines are not mechanically as balanced as a straight 6 or a V8 but I can't see how the characteristics of an IL4 would contribute to its failure. After all there are some sweet 4s around, particularly the Japanese ones. Hondas are known for their dynamic smoothness and we are also on our 5th Toyota RAV4 with the VVTi petrol engine and that unit is an absolute peach. Not especially economical but in terms of smoothness, power and reliability, it is about the best engine I have experienced in nearly 50 years of driving. Surely BMW aren't so far adrift of them??
naturalaspiration said:
Just checked online:
N52 chain is shared with N20, N26, N51, N55, S55 (F series M3, M4, M4GTS), NOT shared with any N4x engine.
.
Same chain but four links longer due to the taller block height. Same tensioner and rail design, same crank sprocket.N52 chain is shared with N20, N26, N51, N55, S55 (F series M3, M4, M4GTS), NOT shared with any N4x engine.
.
Don't rely too much on RealOEM and part numbers.
Thanks, Folks, for all of your comments and having taken the time to post them. Unfortunately I still can't decide whether to keep the car or get rid of it. As I said before, it's a lovely drive and now with the new engine I guess that it's as good as it's ever going to be given its mileage and general condition.
I suppose this calls for a serious thinking session over a dram or two...... Then I will probably follow my heart rather than my head! Hmmmmm🤔
I suppose this calls for a serious thinking session over a dram or two...... Then I will probably follow my heart rather than my head! Hmmmmm🤔
firemac said:
Thanks, Folks, for all of your comments and having taken the time to post them. Unfortunately I still can't decide whether to keep the car or get rid of it. As I said before, it's a lovely drive and now with the new engine I guess that it's as good as it's ever going to be given its mileage and general condition.
I suppose this calls for a serious thinking session over a dram or two...... Then I will probably follow my heart rather than my head! Hmmmmm??
I would get another two years out off it tbh. It's not really worth that much now (3/4 grand?) so I'd just use it.I suppose this calls for a serious thinking session over a dram or two...... Then I will probably follow my heart rather than my head! Hmmmmm??
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