ZF 8 issues/my driving style issues?

ZF 8 issues/my driving style issues?

Author
Discussion

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 2nd January 2018
quotequote all
SwissJonese said:
The 8 speeder step auto in my 118i was dreadful. Coming from a C350 Merc which had the most perfect auto I have every used, this BMW unit was truly the worst. Not quite the same as you but mine used to be jerky when cold. Felt like a clutch slipping and would almost kangaroo out of junctions. I spoke to a mechanic about it and he said yes quite common as it is trying to simulate a DSG? I sold the car within a year.
That doesn’t sound right at all. There must have been some other issue.

There must be millions of cars out there with that box; widely used by BMW, Audi, VW, Jaguar, LR, even RR, just to name a few. It’s generally well regarded.


Fox-

13,228 posts

245 months

Tuesday 2nd January 2018
quotequote all
Wills2 said:
ZF8 is a nice gearbox but there are still plenty of ghosts in the machine to annoy, lots of fanboys think it's amazing but it's got too many gears and shuffles about a bit and can find itself in no mans land if you coast up to a roundabout and then try and nip out, slow uphill left hand turns still fooled it as they do every auto box I've ever driven.

I've done about 80,000 miles in ZF8 cars from 184hp to 313hp and the traits were always the same. (I imagine someone will have already blamed your engine)

I love mine - it always seems to be in the right gear. I can't remember the last time it ever did something I didn't want it to or that annoyed me.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 2nd January 2018
quotequote all
Fox- said:
Wills2 said:
ZF8 is a nice gearbox but there are still plenty of ghosts in the machine to annoy, lots of fanboys think it's amazing but it's got too many gears and shuffles about a bit and can find itself in no mans land if you coast up to a roundabout and then try and nip out, slow uphill left hand turns still fooled it as they do every auto box I've ever driven.

I've done about 80,000 miles in ZF8 cars from 184hp to 313hp and the traits were always the same. (I imagine someone will have already blamed your engine)

I love mine - it always seems to be in the right gear. I can't remember the last time it ever did something I didn't want it to or that annoyed me.
Can’t say I’ve ever had issues like Wills2. Perhaps it depends on your expectations.

Comparing the ZF8 to the Merc 7 speed in our SLK, the ZF is streets ahead with the paddles, the Merc is very slow to change and generally won’t respond to a double change. It also drops out back to D much quicker than the ZF.

Just left in D, I can’t say one is any better or worse than the other.

Mr Whippy

28,944 posts

240 months

Wednesday 3rd January 2018
quotequote all
Just did some driving in mine today.

It's great selections in comfort, but the actual shifts are slow.
But it tends not to rag the engine and uses torque instead.
But often you can be adding throttle and just as you feel the turbo coming in the gearbox downshifts and you get a revvier partial throttle acceleration a second later.
It's that kinda behaviour that is just daft. BMW shoddy calibrations.


Sport shifts nice, fast and crisp, but then it rags the tits off the poor thing.
3000rpm today up my 20mph high street at almost zero throttle in what must be 2nd gear ish?
What The Actual Flip!
I couldn't lift the throttle to get it to upshift otherwise it'd slow down.

Again, just cretinous.


I honestly think BMW purposely set things badly so the lesser cars are undermined next to the M cars.

Alpina appear to make their cars ride well and gearboxes work well with all the same base hardware... just no product line topology to worry about.


Lame.

But tolerable in sport+ with paddles. But then cruise/limiter won't work.

So you're back to toggling chassis/chassis/drivetrain in normal sport mode to get convenient settings.


Now if BMW had just added M1/2 or fully customisable modes it wouldn't be a problem.

I don't know how BMW can fk it up so badly given the money and expertise... I can only assume it's because they have to down-grade the quality to make the M model appealing these days.

stevesingo

4,848 posts

221 months

Wednesday 3rd January 2018
quotequote all
Mr Whippy said:
Just did some driving in mine today.

It's great selections in comfort, but the actual shifts are slow.
But it tends not to rag the engine and uses torque instead.
But often you can be adding throttle and just as you feel the turbo coming in the gearbox downshifts and you get a revvier partial throttle acceleration a second later.
It's that kinda behaviour that is just daft. BMW shoddy calibrations.


Sport shifts nice, fast and crisp, but then it rags the tits off the poor thing.
3000rpm today up my 20mph high street at almost zero throttle in what must be 2nd gear ish?
What The Actual Flip!
I couldn't lift the throttle to get it to upshift otherwise it'd slow down.

Again, just cretinous.


I honestly think BMW purposely set things badly so the lesser cars are undermined next to the M cars.

Alpina appear to make their cars ride well and gearboxes work well with all the same base hardware... just no product line topology to worry about.


Lame.

But tolerable in sport+ with paddles. But then cruise/limiter won't work.

So you're back to toggling chassis/chassis/drivetrain in normal sport mode to get convenient settings.


Now if BMW had just added M1/2 or fully customisable modes it wouldn't be a problem.

I don't know how BMW can fk it up so badly given the money and expertise... I can only assume it's because they have to down-grade the quality to make the M model appealing these days.
If you don't like it, get rid of it. Then the world of PH won't have to listen to your whining.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 3rd January 2018
quotequote all
Mr Whippy said:
Just did some driving in mine today.

It's great selections in comfort, but the actual shifts are slow.
But it tends not to rag the engine and uses torque instead.
But often you can be adding throttle and just as you feel the turbo coming in the gearbox downshifts and you get a revvier partial throttle acceleration a second later.
It's that kinda behaviour that is just daft. BMW shoddy calibrations.


Sport shifts nice, fast and crisp, but then it rags the tits off the poor thing.
3000rpm today up my 20mph high street at almost zero throttle in what must be 2nd gear ish?
What The Actual Flip!
I couldn't lift the throttle to get it to upshift otherwise it'd slow down.

Again, just cretinous.


I honestly think BMW purposely set things badly so the lesser cars are undermined next to the M cars.

Alpina appear to make their cars ride well and gearboxes work well with all the same base hardware... just no product line topology to worry about.


Lame.

But tolerable in sport+ with paddles. But then cruise/limiter won't work.

So you're back to toggling chassis/chassis/drivetrain in normal sport mode to get convenient settings.


Now if BMW had just added M1/2 or fully customisable modes it wouldn't be a problem.

I don't know how BMW can fk it up so badly given the money and expertise... I can only assume it's because they have to down-grade the quality to make the M model appealing these days.
I do find your post quite hard to believe. I’ve driven a number of cars with this box and never find anything as bad as you describe.

Presumably you’ve complained to your dealer, if it’s so bad? What do they say?

What car is this, it sounds terrible?

Mike335i

4,985 posts

101 months

Wednesday 3rd January 2018
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Just did some driving in mine today.

It's great selections in comfort, but the actual shifts are slow.
But it tends not to rag the engine and uses torque instead.
But often you can be adding throttle and just as you feel the turbo coming in the gearbox downshifts and you get a revvier partial throttle acceleration a second later.
It's that kinda behaviour that is just daft. BMW shoddy calibrations.


Sport shifts nice, fast and crisp, but then it rags the tits off the poor thing.
3000rpm today up my 20mph high street at almost zero throttle in what must be 2nd gear ish?
What The Actual Flip!
I couldn't lift the throttle to get it to upshift otherwise it'd slow down.

Again, just cretinous.


I honestly think BMW purposely set things badly so the lesser cars are undermined next to the M cars.

Alpina appear to make their cars ride well and gearboxes work well with all the same base hardware... just no product line topology to worry about.


Lame.

But tolerable in sport+ with paddles. But then cruise/limiter won't work.

So you're back to toggling chassis/chassis/drivetrain in normal sport mode to get convenient settings.


Now if BMW had just added M1/2 or fully customisable modes it wouldn't be a problem.

I don't know how BMW can fk it up so badly given the money and expertise... I can only assume it's because they have to down-grade the quality to make the M model appealing these days.
I do find your post quite hard to believe. I’ve driven a number of cars with this box and never find anything as bad as you describe.

Presumably you’ve complained to your dealer, if it’s so bad? What do they say?

What car is this, it sounds terrible?
Not quite as bad as that, but I recognise the uselessness of the sport mode on the box marched to the diesel box in an X1, 520d and 218d. All brand new, all unpleasant unless gently cruising, where they excelled.

thatdude

2,654 posts

126 months

Wednesday 3rd January 2018
quotequote all
Depending on the mileage, it may be worth having the transmission serviced and the electronic adaptations reset. BMW will say their transmissions don't need servicing, however ZF are quite adamant that the transmissions should be serviced around 60,000 miles. It's reasonably expensive, but then the transmission needs specific fluid (always get it from ZF), quite a bit of it and also a filter change (possibly more than one filter?). Filling is an involved procedure as well, as the fluid level must be set at a specific temperature range. Having the adaptations reset to factory default might help things. Gearboxes use a "fuzzy logic" to learn the driving style of the driver and match it accordingly.

Of course, with the manual mode, you can select which gear you require; in my wifes bmw (with a ZF 6 speed 'box), I will hapily shift into D-Sport and let that mode take over, or somply select the gears I want myself when I feel I need more control over what is happening. 95% of the time it's left in D, but for that 5% I enjoy the better control / predictability.

It's worth talking to ZF as well, they are quite helpful.

Ed in parts

11 posts

75 months

Wednesday 3rd January 2018
quotequote all
thatdude said:
Depending on the mileage, it may be worth having the transmission serviced and the electronic adaptations reset. BMW will say their transmissions don't need servicing, however ZF are quite adamant that the transmissions should be serviced around 60,000 miles. It's reasonably expensive, but then the transmission needs specific fluid (always get it from ZF), quite a bit of it and also a filter change (possibly more than one filter?). Filling is an involved procedure as well, as the fluid level must be set at a specific temperature range. Having the adaptations reset to factory default might help things. Gearboxes use a "fuzzy logic" to learn the driving style of the driver and match it accordingly.

Of course, with the manual mode, you can select which gear you require; in my wifes bmw (with a ZF 6 speed 'box), I will hapily shift into D-Sport and let that mode take over, or somply select the gears I want myself when I feel I need more control over what is happening. 95% of the time it's left in D, but for that 5% I enjoy the better control / predictability.

It's worth talking to ZF as well, they are quite helpful.
I'd echo the above. I've always found them fantastic

Fox-

13,228 posts

245 months

Wednesday 3rd January 2018
quotequote all
Mr Whippy said:
Lame.

But tolerable in sport+ with paddles. But then cruise/limiter won't work.
Whereas despite insisting on a Sport Automatic Transmission optioned car I've actually found myself never using the paddles - quite surprisingly. I thought I'd use them all the time but I just don't touch them as there rarely seems to be a need.

cerb4.5lee

30,189 posts

179 months

Wednesday 3rd January 2018
quotequote all
Fox- said:
Mr Whippy said:
Lame.

But tolerable in sport+ with paddles. But then cruise/limiter won't work.
Whereas despite insisting on a Sport Automatic Transmission optioned car I've actually found myself never using the paddles - quite surprisingly. I thought I'd use them all the time but I just don't touch them as there rarely seems to be a need.
I'm the same and the only time I've have used them is when I've caught one of them by accident! The gearbox does such a good job on it's own that I've never felt the need to use them.

XMT

3,779 posts

146 months

Wednesday 3rd January 2018
quotequote all
Maybe the auto is just not for you but I have had 6 different cars with the ZF gearbox, 4 of them being BMW and the current one an audi and have never experienced anything like you have and I am critical at the best of times.

Too many people moan about other aspects of a car which is mated to a critical part of the car which is the engine. The engine is selected mostly to give them cheap motoring and fk anything else then moan about it.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 3rd January 2018
quotequote all
cerb4.5lee said:
Fox- said:
Mr Whippy said:
Lame.

But tolerable in sport+ with paddles. But then cruise/limiter won't work.
Whereas despite insisting on a Sport Automatic Transmission optioned car I've actually found myself never using the paddles - quite surprisingly. I thought I'd use them all the time but I just don't touch them as there rarely seems to be a need.
I'm the same and the only time I've have used them is when I've caught one of them by accident! The gearbox does such a good job on it's own that I've never felt the need to use them.
I used to use the paddles to put a spurt on when in Eco, for overtaking and the like. I can’t imagine why one would stay in Sport + long enough to need cruise or a limiter. Not having that facility in S+ seems an advantage to me.

Mr Whippy

28,944 posts

240 months

Wednesday 3rd January 2018
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
I do find your post quite hard to believe. I’ve driven a number of cars with this box and never find anything as bad as you describe.

Presumably you’ve complained to your dealer, if it’s so bad? What do they say?

What car is this, it sounds terrible?
The box is good in some cars.

I've found it terrific in the Disco 4.

It's also tolerable as a comfort box with comfort shifts in my BMW 335d.

What isn't good is it's shifting points in sport mode.

I'll admit you want an engine on the boil ready to go, but at almost zero throttle input at 3000rpm at 20mph in a 300bhp car? Ummm.


It'd all disappear into irrelevance if BMW gave you a choice on shift points and shift aggressiveness.

Have a menu.

Ecopro
Comfort
Sport
Sport+

Each one can be setup from defaults.

Each one can toggle through a choice of dampers, steering weight, throttle response, gearbox shift points and gearbox shift aggressiveness, and ideally the piped in audio for the engine.

I know enough to know this wouldn't be significantly hard.
In my view they just don't do it because it'd make the cooking models too complete and the M models these days even less appealing.
In a time where a week or two of developer time could be spent to add this feature, the fact it's missing points to it being absent by choice.

And it's ruined the excellent ZF gearbox in this implementation.

You only get the best from it in sport by using paddles, when you know it's more than capable of choosing good ratios in comfort, but then being slow and laggy because BMW lag it on purpose!


Apparently you can program the Alpina gearbox settings and it's much improved.
So undoing BMWs purposeful poor work and replacing it with Alpina's.

Sadly you then lose your warranty.



It might sound overly nit picky but if you're gonna tell everyone how your implement of ZF8 is awesome in BMW because of your software, you're leaving yourself open to nit picky criticism.

SteBrown91

Original Poster:

2,360 posts

128 months

Saturday 6th January 2018
quotequote all
As a bit of an update to this, car went into the dealer yesterday to (apparently) sort the noisy brake shoes (again). I also mentioned the jerkyness on light throttle/changing gear etc.

They found the EGR valve was faulty so have replaced it and are subsequently calibrating it this morning - hopefully ill pick it up today all being well.

I mentioned to them the EGR valve was replaced October time under a "service enhancement" (ie. TSB/non-recall recall) and the tech told me that the part they fitted yesterday is a revised design to the one fitted in October and the revised design has also had a subsequent software update!

Hopefully this will make the car much better and I will get on with it better now.

Now just need to ditch the runflats.....

Cheers Guys

gareth h

3,503 posts

229 months

Saturday 6th January 2018
quotequote all
I'm on my second ZF box (640d and 335d), having sworn I would never have another auto when I sold my 04 330d.
I almost never use the paddles as the box pretty much does what I want, although comfort can be a bit slow if you want to pick the throttle up exiting a corner.
Just wonder if throttle application is the problem for people who don't get on with it, obviously the box responds differently depending on throttle position.

Wills2

22,669 posts

174 months

Saturday 6th January 2018
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
Fox- said:
Wills2 said:
ZF8 is a nice gearbox but there are still plenty of ghosts in the machine to annoy, lots of fanboys think it's amazing but it's got too many gears and shuffles about a bit and can find itself in no mans land if you coast up to a roundabout and then try and nip out, slow uphill left hand turns still fooled it as they do every auto box I've ever driven.

I've done about 80,000 miles in ZF8 cars from 184hp to 313hp and the traits were always the same. (I imagine someone will have already blamed your engine)

I love mine - it always seems to be in the right gear. I can't remember the last time it ever did something I didn't want it to or that annoyed me.
Can’t say I’ve ever had issues like Wills2. Perhaps it depends on your expectations.

Comparing the ZF8 to the Merc 7 speed in our SLK, the ZF is streets ahead with the paddles, the Merc is very slow to change and generally won’t respond to a double change. It also drops out back to D much quicker than the ZF.

Just left in D, I can’t say one is any better or worse than the other.
No expectations just prefer to speak honestly about the cars I've owned and their various limitations, after all nothing is perfect, MDCT has a few niggles as well having done 130,000 miles with MDCT.

If you do enough miles over all kinds of roads and situations/conditions you experience these foibles.










anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 6th January 2018
quotequote all
Wills2 said:
REALIST123 said:
Fox- said:
Wills2 said:
ZF8 is a nice gearbox but there are still plenty of ghosts in the machine to annoy, lots of fanboys think it's amazing but it's got too many gears and shuffles about a bit and can find itself in no mans land if you coast up to a roundabout and then try and nip out, slow uphill left hand turns still fooled it as they do every auto box I've ever driven.

I've done about 80,000 miles in ZF8 cars from 184hp to 313hp and the traits were always the same. (I imagine someone will have already blamed your engine)

I love mine - it always seems to be in the right gear. I can't remember the last time it ever did something I didn't want it to or that annoyed me.
Can’t say I’ve ever had issues like Wills2. Perhaps it depends on your expectations.

Comparing the ZF8 to the Merc 7 speed in our SLK, the ZF is streets ahead with the paddles, the Merc is very slow to change and generally won’t respond to a double change. It also drops out back to D much quicker than the ZF.

Just left in D, I can’t say one is any better or worse than the other.
No expectations just prefer to speak honestly about the cars I've owned and their various limitations, after all nothing is perfect, MDCT has a few niggles as well having done 130,000 miles with MDCT.

If you do enough miles over all kinds of roads and situations/conditions you experience these foibles.


I agree. After close to, if not more than 1m miles over the years with just about every kind of gearbox there is, I would certainly say they all have upsides and down.

But I don’t think the ZF8 deserves the castigation that some give it. It’s better than most.





AlfEinar

1 posts

62 months

Tuesday 15th January 2019
quotequote all
Any progress on the gear trouble? i have an 2018 G30 With the same problems, BMW dealer have no good sollution…...i have loud brakes to..sounds like a train when in reverse….

deutschlandcarfan

1 posts

48 months

Thursday 19th March 2020
quotequote all
Hi All,

I am experiencing similar issues on a 2019 G30 520d M-Sport on standard spec.

Example issues are:
1. Turning left out of my home on to smooth road. Accelerating from 10-20 mph. Always "kicks" as it changes up. Feels like I lifted the clutch too quickly.
2. Lifting off at top of hill with speed warning @ 30mph... . . Feel a sharp downshift , which feels like brakes pressed. Did not have cruise control engaged.
3. Kick down going through slowly through a car park .
4. Turning left out of car park onto road. Same jerk as turning out my home gate.
5. Coming into roundabouts when you lift off but do not stop. -ie you slow down, realise its clear and go back on the power ... all at 20-30 mph

I'm not sure ... But at feels a lot worse when cold.
And .... I think its worse when I've turned left or am about to turn left.

The whole car drives like a learner driver who cannot get the timing right as they lift the clutch.

BMW have replaced an EGR sensor and tell me "the computer cannot see any other issues".

Finally - my wife and and drive exactly the same cars (both Jan 2019 BMWs)... we share both cars and the other car drives perfectly. We've had 5 other BMWs with ZF gearboxes and they all drive like a dream ... hence we swapped from becoming an Audi-BMW house to a 2xBMW house!

Thoughts / suggestions /advice ?

thanks!