E46 as an investment

E46 as an investment

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aka_kerrly

Original Poster:

12,416 posts

209 months

Sunday 13th May 2018
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Don't panic, this is very much an ironic thread as I get a bit sick of all this "investment potential" rubbish.

Whilst browsing some 330CI & Clubsports recently I couldn't help but stumble across this feature on time warp E46 on BMW Car Magazine which references some examples from Hexagon under the heading "values sky rocketing"

https://bmwcarmagazine.com/time-warp-bmw-e46s-valu...

Odd then that this particular 330CI Clubsport which in October 2016 was being advertising at £23,995 is still on sale at the same dealer for £16,995 - one excellent investment opportunity

Just where do you draw the line as a dealer having a car sat around for years when it seems you perhaps got too greedy early on and there seems to be very little evidence that and non M3 has been sold for anywhere close to that kind of money.?

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 13th May 2018
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aka_kerrly said:
Don't panic, this is very much an ironic thread as I get a bit sick of all this "investment potential" rubbish.

Whilst browsing some 330CI & Clubsports recently I couldn't help but stumble across this feature on time warp E46 on BMW Car Magazine which references some examples from Hexagon under the heading "values sky rocketing"

https://bmwcarmagazine.com/time-warp-bmw-e46s-valu...

Odd then that this particular 330CI Clubsport which in October 2016 was being advertising at £23,995 is still on sale at the same dealer for £16,995 - one excellent investment opportunity

Just where do you draw the line as a dealer having a car sat around for years when it seems you perhaps got too greedy early on and there seems to be very little evidence that and non M3 has been sold for anywhere close to that kind of money.?
Haha. I guess by skyrocketing they mean not falling quite so fast as they might........

Mr Tidy

22,065 posts

126 months

Monday 14th May 2018
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Yes, very ironic!

I can't imagine any non M E46 Coupe being worth more than about £5K! laugh

The only E46 that might be a potential investment has to be an M3, but I get fed up with this sort of stuff so I really hope it isn't!

helix402

7,832 posts

181 months

Monday 14th May 2018
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JakeT

5,406 posts

119 months

Monday 14th May 2018
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It'll happen, but not for a while yet. Prices are starting to firm up as numbers thin. Don't buy one as an investment though, get out there and drive them!

bludger

112 posts

77 months

Monday 14th May 2018
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My current car is an E46 330ci (54plate) and I'm thinking of changing. However, I confess that sometimes I think I'm mad to do so; the car has 104K miles, still goes very well and accelerates fine and it's been next to no trouble (I think the only repair as such I've had done is an oil separator). I only do about 4K miles a year.

daniel-5zjw7

598 posts

100 months

Monday 14th May 2018
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I've got an e46 and they are great cars but imo have the same zero investment opportunity as many similiar cars of this age, M3 included.

If cars were staying the same I'd probably think differently, but things are changing quickly and in all likelyhood we'll be forced out of early 2000's cars within the next 10 years combined with as I see it a decline in car enthusiasts I can't see who will be interested in cars like e46s in the future, and can't imagine them ever getting to a point where they're worth even 50% of what they were new in general.

If I was looking for a cheapish car as an investment I'd see more value in something like a mk1 Honda Insight!

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Monday 14th May 2018
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JakeT said:
It'll happen, but not for a while yet. Prices are starting to firm up as numbers thin. Don't buy one as an investment though, get out there and drive them!
There are still LOADS of non-M3 E46s out there, and I don't buy that prices for anything other than really late/Individual/Sport/low-mile models are going to go anywhere for a long time.
If you're looking for a decent all-rounder, spend £3k on a 330ci Sport and enjoy it. If you're looking to invest in something that will make you some money, look at a different model entirely.

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Monday 14th May 2018
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[redacted]

Funk

26,254 posts

208 months

Monday 14th May 2018
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It's the usual dealer-driven bullst to try and push up prices and flog them.

When I bought my E46 330Ci auto I paid £5,150 for it from a dealer - it was low mileage (72k) and in excellent condition. They gave me all the guff about 'becoming a sought-after classic' (really.....with an auto box...?) but it did cross my mind to see what they'd offer when I came to flog it and remind them of the 'appreciating classic' they'd sold me! I bought it because I liked it and it ticked all my boxes, not because of some possible 'future classic' bks.

I ended up selling it privately for £3,750 in the end having put 10k on it and replaced far more of the under-bonnet bits than I'd have liked... My E36 328i in contrast was nearly faultless (other than expected service items) in the 4 years I owned it and if I were to find myself with the choice of E36 328i or E46 330Ci again it'd be the E36 for me.

Edited by Funk on Monday 14th May 22:34

SebringMan

1,773 posts

185 months

Monday 14th May 2018
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Even the M3s won't go up for a while.

They made 10,000 UK models from memory, and despite what people say, most came with a manual 'box. When I last checked after extensive research there are around 7,500 still around; I'll have to dig up the figures.

A few have been scrapped now, mainly because people bought them thinking they were cheap to run and that ECP parts would save them, others are because of things like bottom ends or boot floors spoiling the fun; a breaker on M3Cutters has just broken two M3s for spares due to bottom end failure.

That said, their values have firmed up possibly down to E36 M3 values becoming firm as their numbers dwindle.

For me, having owned and driven a few the E46 is a nicer car. But there are still way too many around for the prices to go up.

Mr Whippy

28,944 posts

240 months

Monday 14th May 2018
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It’ll happen but there are too many around for you to pay too much.

Most won’t be garage queens so are ultimately near worthless as they’ll ALL need big chunks of cash throwing at them for them to be able to enter the fabled ‘good un’ pool of valuable cars.

Ie, decent full body resprays, drivetrain refreshes etc.



It’s happened forever, but the best cars that are eventually worth much are so well looked after they’ll likely have cost a good chunk of their high value to be worth what they are.


I’d just avoid any car model where this is common because you’ll be paying through the nose for nothing.


And yes the E46 are pretty nice, but I went looking for even an M one (CS) and found it over rated for the money being asked now, and almost the entire stock is average to poor for all M3.

Right now I’d say an E46 shed is worth buying then sink £10,000 into it and make it like new... better than buying a £10,000 example and needing to spend £££ on all the common stuff.

iSore

4,011 posts

143 months

Thursday 17th May 2018
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Most of them are tatty stboxes with the usual litany of E46 issues from fked window switches and creaky window regulators to oil leaks, rust, shagged radiators, more rust, cracked boot floors, wked bushes, even more rust ad infinitum. When the drift and modding crew have finished destroying them about 11 years from now, there might be a handful of really good ones with low mileage (well under 100'000) and it would have to be a good spec - so no sub 3.0 toss or saloons, no silver grey or beige interiors or nasty greens/golds or SE's but 330Ci Sport Coupes and maybe Convertibles in a nice colour (black, silver, Imola red, Topaz blue) with black leather. Top of the range desirable-when-new, basically. Clubsports will fetch a significant premium with facelift Estoril blue manuals being the cream. Such a car is worth buying now if you can find one that doesn't immediately need a shedload of £££ throwing at it. A friend has a 40k from new 330Ci Sport Convertible in silver with (yuk) grey leather and it's absolutely box fresh. That's already a £5000+ car now.

I'd rather have a recent low mileage 428i than any of the old stuff tbh but the old car market is odd.

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Friday 18th May 2018
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iSore said:
Most of them are tatty stboxes with the usual litany of E46 issues from fked window switches and creaky window regulators to oil leaks, rust, shagged radiators, more rust, cracked boot floors, wked bushes, even more rust ad infinitum. When the drift and modding crew have finished destroying them about 11 years from now, there might be a handful of really good ones with low mileage (well under 100'000) and it would have to be a good spec - so no sub 3.0 toss or saloons, no silver grey or beige interiors or nasty greens/golds or SE's but 330Ci Sport Coupes and maybe Convertibles in a nice colour (black, silver, Imola red, Topaz blue) with black leather. Top of the range desirable-when-new, basically. Clubsports will fetch a significant premium with facelift Estoril blue manuals being the cream. Such a car is worth buying now if you can find one that doesn't immediately need a shedload of £££ throwing at it. A friend has a 40k from new 330Ci Sport Convertible in silver with (yuk) grey leather and it's absolutely box fresh. That's already a £5000+ car now.

I'd rather have a recent low mileage 428i than any of the old stuff tbh but the old car market is odd.
Agree with most of it, although I take major exception to the bolded bit. The market doesn't think the Clubsport is particularly special judging by current values, and I don't expect this to change one bit.

The thing, somewhat frustratingly, that will kill these cars off is rust. My rear arches have seen better days, but mine was an absolute bargain and no real garage queen. All of the other issues you've described (cooling system, oil leaks, window regulators) are generic things that happen to any car of age, and in no way a specific killer of E46s.
Mine is well-maintained mechanically (albeit more reactive than proactive), but it's a Central London car that lives on the street (shout out to the twot who clipped my wingmirror), so worrying about bodywork is self-defeating.

Mr Whippy

28,944 posts

240 months

Sunday 20th May 2018
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Bodywork care starts early.

I’ve just bought a 10yr old 50k mile car and priority number 1 is getting the underneath and arch areas cleaned and protected before winter sets in.

So many people ignore it, but it’s those bits that need doing from 10yrs onwards (if not from new) that’ll be the ones that are eventually the decent value ones later.


On a monocoque car there is no way to avoid the rust just ruining everything... fixable but at big cost.
Again that’s why old cars in great nick are worth £££... not because they’re old and desirable, but because they’re old and in great nick, which cost money...!

cologne2792

2,126 posts

125 months

Sunday 20th May 2018
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Without wishing to derail the thread I've been looking at E46 330cd and it seems at the moment you can't give them away.
A half decent, just over 100k mile convertible, popped up locally for £2,000. The weather's finally just right but It's currently on it's 4th ad.
Some nice rust free coupes for well under £3k with good history and obviously well looked after still for sale after 3 months or so.

Conversely the ci values do seem on the rise.

Anti diesel feeling or people not wanting to get involved with a 10-12 year old BMW ?

iSore

4,011 posts

143 months

Sunday 20th May 2018
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Mr Whippy said:
Bodywork care starts early.

I’ve just bought a 10yr old 50k mile car and priority number 1 is getting the underneath and arch areas cleaned and protected before winter sets in.

So many people ignore it, but it’s those bits that need doing from 10yrs onwards (if not from new) that’ll be the ones that are eventually the decent value ones later.


On a monocoque car there is no way to avoid the rust just ruining everything... fixable but at big cost.
Again that’s why old cars in great nick are worth £££... not because they’re old and desirable, but because they’re old and in great nick, which cost money...!
Front arch liners out, and clean out the arch lips. There will be surface rust in there but a wire brush, some emery followed by a good dose of Dinitrol will help it.

E46 values are low because they are in the £500 council estate banger phase and will be for a long time to come. They just aren't seen as desirable and only a small minority are really nice cars. E36's are still in the same boat - to most, they are both just an old BMW with all the downmarket connotations that implies.

sparks_E46

12,738 posts

212 months

Monday 21st May 2018
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Mr Whippy said:
Bodywork care starts early.

I’ve just bought a 10yr old 50k mile car and priority number 1 is getting the underneath and arch areas cleaned and protected before winter sets in.

So many people ignore it, but it’s those bits that need doing from 10yrs onwards (if not from new) that’ll be the ones that are eventually the decent value ones later.


On a monocoque car there is no way to avoid the rust just ruining everything... fixable but at big cost.
Again that’s why old cars in great nick are worth £££... not because they’re old and desirable, but because they’re old and in great nick, which cost money...!
What’s a big cost though? Circa £500 to sort out a rear arch (cut out and weld) isn’t a “big cost” in my opinion and something I’ll be paying shortly to sort out one of the the rear arches of my ~£2k E46 330ci. Definitely not cheap, and I guess expensive compared to the value of the car and about a third of my monthly take home, but we’re not talking untold thousands here. The front arches can just be replaced quite cheaply too. I had a similar repair carried out to my 530i Sport drivers rear arch and 4 years later it was perfect still. I guess I could get it “cheaply done” but quality is remembered long after cost has been forgotten!

I am under no illusion though in 2/3 years when I will likely sell the 330ci it will likely be worth no more than a grand but whilst I have it I want to look after it properly.

aka_kerrly

Original Poster:

12,416 posts

209 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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iSore said:
it would have to be a good spec - so no sub 3.0 toss or saloons, no silver grey or beige interiors or nasty greens/golds or SE's but 330Ci Sport Coupes and maybe Convertibles in a nice colour (black, silver, Imola red, Topaz blue) with black leather. Top of the range desirable-when-new, basically. Clubsports will fetch a significant premium with facelift Estoril blue manuals being the cream. Such a car is worth buying now if you can find one that doesn't immediately need a shedload of £££ throwing at it. A friend has a 40k from new 330Ci Sport Convertible in silver with (yuk) grey leather and it's absolutely box fresh. That's already a £5000+ car now.
.
This is pretty much my view to. My ideal E46 (non M) would be a manual 330sport coupe, in Imola red, estoril blue, velvet blue or with the alcantara sport interior, although I was close to buying a black 330ci that had a blackcurrant leather interior which actually looked really good... shame the rest of the car was a let down. Sadly my ideal specification probably equates to about 5% of E46s sold hence I've searched but yet to find the right one.

My uncle has a X reg (2000) 330ci SE auto cabriolet in topaz blue with beige leather that he has owned from new and although not 100% to my taste it is a superb specification (loads of options) & has aged very well. It's in great condition yet to many worth barely a few grandfrown