Help...F11...weird handling after new rear tyres
Discussion
If I’m reading this correctly, you’ve now got well worn tyres on the rear and new on the front and you find the handling much better and safer?
Yet this is against all official recommendations to always have the better tyres on the rear.
I know why that general recommendation is made, and don’t necessarily agree with it, but this case shows it can not only be unnecessary, it can apparently be dangerous.
Yet this is against all official recommendations to always have the better tyres on the rear.
I know why that general recommendation is made, and don’t necessarily agree with it, but this case shows it can not only be unnecessary, it can apparently be dangerous.
4rephill said:
It's pretty amazing that people seem to think the tyre manufacturers simply design a single carcass for a tyre, and then just mould different tread patterns into the top surface, and charge different prices for them!
Just because a tyre is from the same manufacturer, and is the same size as one of their other models, doesn't mean that it's internal construction and "rubber" compound is the same.
I have been laughed at and ridiculed over the years on the BMW forums for shouting this fact out. Just because a tyre is from the same manufacturer, and is the same size as one of their other models, doesn't mean that it's internal construction and "rubber" compound is the same.
Even when people are swapping control arms, dampers, springs, bushes etc. they still won't listen to me when I say "You have different tyres on the front to the rear."
They keep throwing money at it and simply won't accept how much different it makes.
People surely buy a BMW because of the way it drives? So why then go and try and save £150-200 buying mismatched tyres, at best it will not be as good on the limit......you know? When you really need them to be. But more often than not it feels like you have blow dampers or like you are driving on a damp road all the time.
The Traction Control Light should never really come on on a BMW, with decent tyres all round you have to really provoke the car to get it to flash, taking burying the throttle pulling out of a wet junction. If you traction comes on easier than that then you need to take a seriously look at your tyres.
gizlaroc said:
I have been laughed at and ridiculed over the years on the BMW forums for shouting this fact out.
Even when people are swapping control arms, dampers, springs, bushes etc. they still won't listen to me when I say "You have different tyres on the front to the rear."
They keep throwing money at it and simply won't accept how much different it makes.
People surely buy a BMW because of the way it drives? So why then go and try and save £150-200 buying mismatched tyres, at best it will not be as good on the limit......you know? When you really need them to be. But more often than not it feels like you have blow dampers or like you are driving on a damp road all the time.
The Traction Control Light should never really come on on a BMW, with decent tyres all round you have to really provoke the car to get it to flash, taking burying the throttle pulling out of a wet junction. If you traction comes on easier than that then you need to take a seriously look at your tyres.
Well you need to keep shouting this out and point people at this thread if needed. I could not believe how totally awful and borderline dangerous it was with 4 legal tyres from the same manufacturer fitted. Even the worn tyres are still perfectly good with plenty tread left. And just to highlight, yes I am a PHer and an enthusiast driver, but I'm not some obsessive expert or Hammond-esque "driving god". I've done a couple of beginner track days in my life, but I'm not going to pretend to know the issue was camber-this or toe-in-that. But I could not believe how unstable the car felt, and for the TC light to be flashing on a motorway slip road bend in the dry at a steady 2000rpm is not good at all. I do suspect that if I'd been towing something it could have gone horribly wrong quite quickly.Even when people are swapping control arms, dampers, springs, bushes etc. they still won't listen to me when I say "You have different tyres on the front to the rear."
They keep throwing money at it and simply won't accept how much different it makes.
People surely buy a BMW because of the way it drives? So why then go and try and save £150-200 buying mismatched tyres, at best it will not be as good on the limit......you know? When you really need them to be. But more often than not it feels like you have blow dampers or like you are driving on a damp road all the time.
The Traction Control Light should never really come on on a BMW, with decent tyres all round you have to really provoke the car to get it to flash, taking burying the throttle pulling out of a wet junction. If you traction comes on easier than that then you need to take a seriously look at your tyres.
Now that I have got used to the car in it's current config I am going to say that yes, it does feel nowhere near as sharp as it did originally. The F11 is a big, long heavy beast, but always amazed me with it's handling...now it just feels a bit dull so I will get the rear tyres swapped for F1s too.
I agree with the point made above...if the new grippy tyres were on the back, I'd have expected a feeling a feeling of mild understeer, and when the new ones went on the front I would have expected mild oversteer...not the opposite. And again, when I say "mild", please bear in mind that I am going nowhere near the limits...so I'm expecting more of a feeling/loading...not actually losing grip.
Anyway...lesson learned...still utterly amazed just how bad it was and thanks again to the experts here!!
When I got my M3 CSL I drove it back to Norfolk and was amazed at how twitchy it was, I first thought that it was how it was meant to be, needed to get used to it.
However, after a few days I had the back end kick out while over taking on the A11, not normal!
I took it to BMW Norwich, they agreed it felt wrong.
They swapped control arms, shocks and spring, all the bushes etc. and still felt awful, this was a car with 13k miles on it.
A couple of days later they called to say they had someone over from Colchester or somewhere covering in the workshop that week, he raced M3s, so asked me to pop down so he could drive it.
We took it out, down the slip road and up to the roundabout 1 mile down the road, he went left and then took the first right hand bend and said "mixed tyres on it!"
I was adement that they were Pilot Sports all round. We got out and looked and it was actually Pilot sports on the front and PS2s on the rear.
We went back and put PS2s on the front too and Bingo!
The car was rock solid.
Obviously that is a powerful car, but it made it so obvious, and now I recognise that feeling straight away. Had it on Fiona's 320d for a few days when they ordered the wrong size rears and had to drive round with mixed tyres front and rear again, no where near as dramatic, but you could tell it was the same twitchyness.
I was then a convert to having the same tyres front and rear, certainly on BMWs anyway.
However, after a few days I had the back end kick out while over taking on the A11, not normal!
I took it to BMW Norwich, they agreed it felt wrong.
They swapped control arms, shocks and spring, all the bushes etc. and still felt awful, this was a car with 13k miles on it.
A couple of days later they called to say they had someone over from Colchester or somewhere covering in the workshop that week, he raced M3s, so asked me to pop down so he could drive it.
We took it out, down the slip road and up to the roundabout 1 mile down the road, he went left and then took the first right hand bend and said "mixed tyres on it!"
I was adement that they were Pilot Sports all round. We got out and looked and it was actually Pilot sports on the front and PS2s on the rear.
We went back and put PS2s on the front too and Bingo!
The car was rock solid.
Obviously that is a powerful car, but it made it so obvious, and now I recognise that feeling straight away. Had it on Fiona's 320d for a few days when they ordered the wrong size rears and had to drive round with mixed tyres front and rear again, no where near as dramatic, but you could tell it was the same twitchyness.
I was then a convert to having the same tyres front and rear, certainly on BMWs anyway.
I thought I knew about tramlining with my Z4 on 18" RFTs until we bought a E46 330ci, also on 18s. Tramlining taken to a new level.
Luckily one of the tech's at the dealer had had several E46s himself and suggested matching all four. 95% better.
My M235i's DTC would never cut in while on MPPSS'. Put on F1 Asy's and it behaved like every other BMW I've had. Go figure.
Luckily one of the tech's at the dealer had had several E46s himself and suggested matching all four. 95% better.
My M235i's DTC would never cut in while on MPPSS'. Put on F1 Asy's and it behaved like every other BMW I've had. Go figure.
Hi all,
I've got an F11 with a set of 20" 464M wheels. These are genuine BMW but usually found on a 6 series. The tyres are 245/35/ZR20 on front and 275/30/R20 on the back, all matching make and treads. I'm having the same problems many describe on here, ie. lots of little adjustments needed to keep it in a line when going straight and almost dangerous tramlining at times. Also I've noticed the wheel doesn't return to centre without being directed back there proactively. I've tried increasing and reducing tyre pressures which made little to no difference. BMW have said they wouldn't recommend the wheels on the car and point to the options standard for an F11. Other than that they've declined to discuss it. Also I notice from the factory options that almost all the F11 wheels are described as "light" alloys. Are the wheels I have too heavy maybe? or has anyone got any suggestions as to how I can make this car normal?! -This is my 8th 5 series and its just hard work to drive!
Thanks in advance for any suggestions....
I've got an F11 with a set of 20" 464M wheels. These are genuine BMW but usually found on a 6 series. The tyres are 245/35/ZR20 on front and 275/30/R20 on the back, all matching make and treads. I'm having the same problems many describe on here, ie. lots of little adjustments needed to keep it in a line when going straight and almost dangerous tramlining at times. Also I've noticed the wheel doesn't return to centre without being directed back there proactively. I've tried increasing and reducing tyre pressures which made little to no difference. BMW have said they wouldn't recommend the wheels on the car and point to the options standard for an F11. Other than that they've declined to discuss it. Also I notice from the factory options that almost all the F11 wheels are described as "light" alloys. Are the wheels I have too heavy maybe? or has anyone got any suggestions as to how I can make this car normal?! -This is my 8th 5 series and its just hard work to drive!
Thanks in advance for any suggestions....
Julyan-7fk8i said:
Hi all,
I've got an F11 with a set of 20" 464M wheels. These are genuine BMW but usually found on a 6 series. The tyres are 245/35/ZR20 on front and 275/30/R20 on the back, all matching make and treads. I'm having the same problems many describe on here, ie. lots of little adjustments needed to keep it in a line when going straight and almost dangerous tramlining at times. Also I've noticed the wheel doesn't return to centre without being directed back there proactively. I've tried increasing and reducing tyre pressures which made little to no difference. BMW have said they wouldn't recommend the wheels on the car and point to the options standard for an F11. Other than that they've declined to discuss it. Also I notice from the factory options that almost all the F11 wheels are described as "light" alloys. Are the wheels I have too heavy maybe? or has anyone got any suggestions as to how I can make this car normal?! -This is my 8th 5 series and its just hard work to drive!
Thanks in advance for any suggestions....
Maybe your front tyres don’t generate enough trail (pneumatic trail), what pressures are you using.I've got an F11 with a set of 20" 464M wheels. These are genuine BMW but usually found on a 6 series. The tyres are 245/35/ZR20 on front and 275/30/R20 on the back, all matching make and treads. I'm having the same problems many describe on here, ie. lots of little adjustments needed to keep it in a line when going straight and almost dangerous tramlining at times. Also I've noticed the wheel doesn't return to centre without being directed back there proactively. I've tried increasing and reducing tyre pressures which made little to no difference. BMW have said they wouldn't recommend the wheels on the car and point to the options standard for an F11. Other than that they've declined to discuss it. Also I notice from the factory options that almost all the F11 wheels are described as "light" alloys. Are the wheels I have too heavy maybe? or has anyone got any suggestions as to how I can make this car normal?! -This is my 8th 5 series and its just hard work to drive!
Thanks in advance for any suggestions....
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