F22 M Sport wheel and tyre for winter

[Taozzz]

I'm looking to buy a nearly new 220d Coupe M Sport. Now I know because it's M Sport, the tyre sizes are staggered, with front 225/40 R18 (7.5J wheel) and rear 245/35 R18 (8J).

My question is, for winter, let's say I get another set of alloys and winter tyres. Do they need to be staggered as well? or can I get all 4 as 225/40 R18 (7.5J)?

Also, I'm guessing because it's M Sport, I can put 17" wheels on?

[Ninja59]

No, they don't in fact in many circumstances you are better running as square setup as the rear wheels won't need to clear away any Winter weather to generate grip.

Go as narrow as possible, with as smaller wheels as possible to focus the weight of the vehicle over as smaller area as possible. This usually means lots of profile which is useful considering how many potholes there is on our roads

My 640D GC goes from 20" (F 245/35/20, R 275/30/20) to 17" 225/55/17 all round/

Edited by Ninja59 on Friday 14th September 14:35

[msej449]

I have an F23 M235i and the winter setup spec' from BMW is 7.5Jx17 wheels with 225/45-17 'square' which is what I went for. If I recall, the other option was 7Jx17 (can't remember the tyre size). Anyway - take a look and see what your Owners Manual says, it should be in there.

I went for Pirelli Winter Sottozero S3 which has the edge over the Sottozero Serie-II in terms of snow performance (I take it to the Alps for ski trips so with 330 BHP RWD I favour the snow advantage), but the Pirelli Winter Sottozero Serie-II is probably better in warmer conditions in terms of handling. Both are much better than any summers in terms of reduced aquaplaning, even if the temperatures aren't that low, so good for typical wet UK winters.

The S-II and S3 aren't the only winters that get good reports. Have a search on babybmw.net and you'll see various feedback about winters in the tyre section.

Narrower tyres are more resistant to aquaplaning so going 'square' is a good idea for a typical wet British winter, even if we don't see much snow. And when I did my research, I came across a Met Office article saying the average temp winter 2016-17 was 5.5ºC and lower during the rush hour, so that's below the magic 7ºC where winter compounds start to work better.

Just be careful if you have the M Performance brakes. These are larger than the standard and a lot of BMW and 3rd.-party wheels that are OK on non-M 2 Series won't fit over the larger M brakes.

Edited by msej449 on Friday 14th September 21:51

[Mr Tidy]

OP, I'd be surprised if you needed anything bigger than 17s on a 220d whichever trim level you have.

Admittedly all my BMWs have been "E" models, but any E46 could use 16s apart from 330i/d that needed 17s to clear the bigger front brakes. Any E87 could use 16s, apart from the 123d or 130i that needed 17s for the bigger front brakes. Any E85/E86 could use 16s, apart from the facelift 3.0Si that needed 17s to clear the front brakes. Same applies to E9* models - 16s are OK for anything other than 330i/d which need 17s. And that was regardless of whether they were SE or Sport models - brake size was determined by engine size.

But if you want to be sure, open the driver's door and look at the sticker on the B-post which will tell you what sizes were available for that particular car.

As someone said for optimum bad weather performance you want to go for the smallest and narrowest that will fit as they'll "dig in" best. They just may look a bit "lost" in the wheelarches! But that's a better look than getting stuck.

My E46 325ti ran staggered wheels with 225/45 x 17 fronts and 245/40 x 17 in the summer, but 205/55 x 16 on winters.

Edited by Mr Tidy on Sunday 16th September 01:03

[bruce435]

My 435d came with staggered 20" wheels but for winter I just bought a set of normal 18" wheels and Pirelli Sottozero's (got a decent deal from my BMW dealer).

[Kawasicki]

Ninja59 said:

No, they don't in fact in many circumstances you are better running as square setup as the rear wheels won't need to clear away any Winter weather to generate grip.

Go as narrow as possible, with as smaller wheels as possible to focus the weight of the vehicle over as smaller area as possible. This usually means lots of profile which is useful considering how many potholes there is on our roads

My 640D GC goes from 20" (F 245/35/20, R 275/30/20) to 17" 225/55/17 all round/

Edited by Ninja59 on Friday 14th September 14:35

You’ll get more grip with wider tyres.

[Barga]

Kawasicki said:

Ninja59 said:

No, they don't in fact in many circumstances you are better running as square setup as the rear wheels won't need to clear away any Winter weather to generate grip.

Go as narrow as possible, with as smaller wheels as possible to focus the weight of the vehicle over as smaller area as possible. This usually means lots of profile which is useful considering how many potholes there is on our roads

My 640D GC goes from 20" (F 245/35/20, R 275/30/20) to 17" 225/55/17 all round/

Edited by Ninja59 on Friday 14th September 14:35

You’ll get more grip with wider tyres.

In what conditions?

[theboss]

I ran a 16” OEM winter setup on an F20 125d M Sport. I recall if you had the M Perf brakes or M135i you needed 17” minimum. I expect its the same for the F22.

I still have them - give me a shout if interested.

[Taozzz]

Mr Tidy said:

OP, I'd be surprised if you needed anything bigger than 17s on a 220d whichever trim level you have.

Edited by Mr Tidy on Sunday 16th September 01:03

I'll check the sticker in the car, but looking at bmw online configurator, if you want a 220d M Sport (rather than the lowly "Sport", it'll have to be an 18" wheel. Personally, I actually like the 17" 655 wheels on a dark colour car.

Maybe you can get the 17" (on 220d M Sport) when buying new, if you specifically ask for them?

[Ninja59]

Barga said:

In what conditions?

On light fluffy snow yes probably, along with a dry or "damp" surface.

Rest of the time you want narrower to cut down to the surface and generate more grip. Generally in the UK (the beast from the east was unusual in that it brought dry fluffy snow) we see wet damp snow and obviously more damp and wet conditions.

Surprised a Vehicle Dynamics Engineer would not provide more detail on their statement though, as it is fairly obvious there is not a "right" and "wrong", but based on the UK weather it is clear a narrower tyre would provide more safety.

The only other thing that came into it for me was a Winter tyre is significant cheaper than a Summer (£150 v £250 a corner). So I benefit there as well.

Either way having used Winter tyres for a number of years they definitely help irrespective of size.

[Mr Tidy]

Taozzz said:

I'll check the sticker in the car, but looking at bmw online configurator, if you want a 220d M Sport (rather than the lowly "Sport", it'll have to be an 18" wheel.

I would check the sticker first - you might even get away with 16s on the lowly "220d". It's not a 225d after all!

[Kawasicki]

Ninja59 said:

Barga said:

In what conditions?

On light fluffy snow yes probably, along with a dry or "damp" surface.

Rest of the time you want narrower to cut down to the surface and generate more grip. Generally in the UK (the beast from the east was unusual in that it brought dry fluffy snow) we see wet damp snow and obviously more damp and wet conditions.

Surprised a Vehicle Dynamics Engineer would not provide more detail on their statement though, as it is fairly obvious there is not a "right" and "wrong", but based on the UK weather it is clear a narrower tyre would provide more safety.

The only other thing that came into it for me was a Winter tyre is significant cheaper than a Summer (£150 v £250 a corner). So I benefit there as well.

Either way having used Winter tyres for a number of years they definitely help irrespective of size.

There are few definite statements when it comes to tyre performance. That narrow winter tyres are better is not necessarily true. It comes down to what you want from your tyres/car. If you want more grip on dry and wet and compacted snow covered roads then a wider tyre is generally better. If the road has a deeper water film a narrow tyre has obvious advantages. If you want tyres that just keep you mobile on snow/slush covered roads then winter tyres are obviously better than summer tyres.

[neil1jnr]

Kawasicki said:

Ninja59 said:

Barga said:

In what conditions?

On light fluffy snow yes probably, along with a dry or "damp" surface.

Rest of the time you want narrower to cut down to the surface and generate more grip. Generally in the UK (the beast from the east was unusual in that it brought dry fluffy snow) we see wet damp snow and obviously more damp and wet conditions.

Surprised a Vehicle Dynamics Engineer would not provide more detail on their statement though, as it is fairly obvious there is not a "right" and "wrong", but based on the UK weather it is clear a narrower tyre would provide more safety.

The only other thing that came into it for me was a Winter tyre is significant cheaper than a Summer (£150 v £250 a corner). So I benefit there as well.

Either way having used Winter tyres for a number of years they definitely help irrespective of size.

There are few definite statements when it comes to tyre performance. That narrow winter tyres are better is not necessarily true. It comes down to what you want from your tyres/car. If you want more grip on dry and wet and compacted snow covered roads then a wider tyre is generally better. If the road has a deeper water film a narrow tyre has obvious advantages. If you want tyres that just keep you mobile on snow/slush covered roads then winter tyres are obviously better than summer tyres.

Interesting, I am looking for rear winter tyres 275/30 or 35/19 for my 535d (the seller gave me a set for the fronts). I had consider getting a separate set of smaller and narrower alloys and tyres as everybody has told me it's better, but I couldn't really see why unless it's deep snow. I think I'll stick to getting putting winters on my current alloys if there isn't any huge benefit going smaller and narrower (and that I already have winters for the fron sitting in my garage).

[anonymous-user]

neil1jnr said:

Kawasicki said:

Ninja59 said:

Barga said:

In what conditions?

On light fluffy snow yes probably, along with a dry or "damp" surface.

Rest of the time you want narrower to cut down to the surface and generate more grip. Generally in the UK (the beast from the east was unusual in that it brought dry fluffy snow) we see wet damp snow and obviously more damp and wet conditions.

Surprised a Vehicle Dynamics Engineer would not provide more detail on their statement though, as it is fairly obvious there is not a "right" and "wrong", but based on the UK weather it is clear a narrower tyre would provide more safety.

The only other thing that came into it for me was a Winter tyre is significant cheaper than a Summer (£150 v £250 a corner). So I benefit there as well.

Either way having used Winter tyres for a number of years they definitely help irrespective of size.

There are few definite statements when it comes to tyre performance. That narrow winter tyres are better is not necessarily true. It comes down to what you want from your tyres/car. If you want more grip on dry and wet and compacted snow covered roads then a wider tyre is generally better. If the road has a deeper water film a narrow tyre has obvious advantages. If you want tyres that just keep you mobile on snow/slush covered roads then winter tyres are obviously better than summer tyres.

Interesting, I am looking for rear winter tyres 275/30 or 35/19 for my 535d (the seller gave me a set for the fronts). I had consider getting a separate set of smaller and narrower alloys and tyres as everybody has told me it's better, but I couldn't really see why unless it's deep snow. I think I'll stick to getting putting winters on my current alloys if there isn't any huge benefit going smaller and narrower (and that I already have winters for the fron sitting in my garage).

I’ve always felt that the higher profile tyres you’ll have on smaller rims work better because of the increased flexibility.

That said, I’ve run a VW CC on 18” winters, changing the tyres on the original rims twice a year, a 530d on 17” winters (18” summers) and an XF on 17” winters (19” summers) and they’ve all been fine.

The important thing is a proper winter tyre.

[Kawasicki]

neil1jnr said:

Kawasicki said:

Ninja59 said:

Barga said:

In what conditions?

On light fluffy snow yes probably, along with a dry or "damp" surface.

Rest of the time you want narrower to cut down to the surface and generate more grip. Generally in the UK (the beast from the east was unusual in that it brought dry fluffy snow) we see wet damp snow and obviously more damp and wet conditions.

Surprised a Vehicle Dynamics Engineer would not provide more detail on their statement though, as it is fairly obvious there is not a "right" and "wrong", but based on the UK weather it is clear a narrower tyre would provide more safety.

The only other thing that came into it for me was a Winter tyre is significant cheaper than a Summer (£150 v £250 a corner). So I benefit there as well.

Either way having used Winter tyres for a number of years they definitely help irrespective of size.

There are few definite statements when it comes to tyre performance. That narrow winter tyres are better is not necessarily true. It comes down to what you want from your tyres/car. If you want more grip on dry and wet and compacted snow covered roads then a wider tyre is generally better. If the road has a deeper water film a narrow tyre has obvious advantages. If you want tyres that just keep you mobile on snow/slush covered roads then winter tyres are obviously better than summer tyres.

Interesting, I am looking for rear winter tyres 275/30 or 35/19 for my 535d (the seller gave me a set for the fronts). I had consider getting a separate set of smaller and narrower alloys and tyres as everybody has told me it's better, but I couldn't really see why unless it's deep snow. I think I'll stick to getting putting winters on my current alloys if there isn't any huge benefit going smaller and narrower (and that I already have winters for the fron sitting in my garage).

Back in the day I tested winter tyres where the object of the test was to determine the influence of tyre width. One of the tests was a timed hill climb on snow. The wider tyres were faster. Other colleagues tested braking distance, wet and dry. The wider tyres stopped faster. They were also faster though a lane change. They were worse in aquaplaning though.

Wide winters are fine, just watch out for standing water, and I can imagine they might not be that good as narrow tyres on slush too, but I am guessing there.