Has anyone ever grown to like an auto?

[bodhi]

cerb4.5lee said:

bodhi said:

Just to add another perspective, I've had a 330d Manual (E46) and the engine suited the box perfectly. If the x30d had a narrow powerband like the x20d I would entirely agree, but because the 330d didn't run out of puff until 4500 rpm, I wasn't changing gear any more than I was in the 328i before it or 125i that replaced it.

I have read this before and I'd actually like to try a manual with the 30d engine to see what it is like. I think the kerbweight didn't help in my manual 520d(1700kg), and it just felt gutless almost all of the time with the manual gearbox.

Whereas the 30d engine has so much more torque and I'd imagine it to be a bit of fun riding the torque and using the manual gearbox as you mention.

I think it was a combination of the extra torque, plus the extra useable torque band that made a manual 330d entertaining - it really was a case of just picking a gear and sticking with it. I tried the same in my bro-in-law's E46 320d and it wasn't the same at all - far more frantic if you wanted to make progress.

Interestingly I'm finding I can do the same in the 125i - not as much torque as even the 320d, but it doesn't weigh much for a BMW, and it has a whole extra bit at the top of the rev range to play with. 40 to 95 in 3rd is always fun to demonstrate

[cerb4.5lee]

bodhi said:

But the most fun was had getting back in the elderly 1 Series - that combo of N/A Straight 6 and manual box is just too much fun.

I can relate to that!

I drove my 370Z just over 200 miles yesterday(the furthest I've been in it since I've had it), and the combination of a N/A engine and a manual gearbox was very enjoyable for sure!

Although the modified exhaust was miles too loud/droney/boomy though, and at times it was just too much! I couldn't use it everyday that is for sure.

[Mr Tidy]

cerb4.5lee said:

bodhi said:

But the most fun was had getting back in the elderly 1 Series - that combo of N/A Straight 6 and manual box is just too much fun.

I can relate to that!

I drove my 370Z just over 200 miles yesterday(the furthest I've been in it since I've had it), and the combination of a N/A engine and a manual gearbox was very enjoyable for sure!

Although the modified exhaust was miles too loud/droney/boomy though, and at times it was just too much! I couldn't use it everyday that is for sure.

N/A straight 6 petrol and a manual box is pretty special - I did 200+ miles in a day a week or so ago in my Z4 Coupe and loved it. Custom Cat-back exhaust helped no end.

But today I did a local trip in my E90 330i with the same N52 engine and a manual box, and while it was so much more refined it was still very enjoyable!

[cerb4.5lee]

Mr Tidy said:

N/A straight 6 petrol and a manual box is pretty special - I did 200+ miles in a day a week or so ago in my Z4 Coupe and loved it. Custom Cat-back exhaust helped no end.

But today I did a local trip in my E90 330i with the same N52 engine and a manual box, and while it was so much more refined it was still very enjoyable!

The N52 is an awesome engine for sure ...but a dying breed sadly. It is easily one of the most smooth engines that I've ever experienced.

We are in a time where autos/turbos/emissions/mpgs rule though. I do understand why though...but that doesn't stop me from enjoying and appreciating the old way of doing things though for sure.

[RobM77]

They certainly are fantastic. I’ve owned four BMWs with evolutions of that engine and all have been wonderful. Surprisingly economical too.

[sortedcossie]

like a few on here I have the 6 speed ZF auto in a 2008 330d touring. We do a 2,000 mile round trip each August to near La Rochelle in west coast of France, fully loaded up it's effortless and eats the miles. In the UK I spend a lot of time between the West Midlands and Manchester, anyone who does that route up the M6 will know what a ball ache that is at the moment, auto the way forward in such stop start slow traffic.

[RobM77]

sortedcossie said:

like a few on here I have the 6 speed ZF auto in a 2008 330d touring. We do a 2,000 mile round trip each August to near La Rochelle in west coast of France, fully loaded up it's effortless and eats the miles. In the UK I spend a lot of time between the West Midlands and Manchester, anyone who does that route up the M6 will know what a ball ache that is at the moment, auto the way forward in such stop start slow traffic.

What are your thoughts for someone who hardly ever uses 1st or 2nd gear on their commute?

[bodhi]

RobM77 said:

sortedcossie said:

like a few on here I have the 6 speed ZF auto in a 2008 330d touring. We do a 2,000 mile round trip each August to near La Rochelle in west coast of France, fully loaded up it's effortless and eats the miles. In the UK I spend a lot of time between the West Midlands and Manchester, anyone who does that route up the M6 will know what a ball ache that is at the moment, auto the way forward in such stop start slow traffic.

What are your thoughts for someone who hardly ever uses 1st or 2nd gear on their commute?

I know this wasn't directed at me, however I spend most days on the same bit of motorway (only up to Stafford) in a manual, and it's absolutely fine. I do tend to leave Stafford after 9, so I miss the worst of the carnage in the morning - get it on the way home though. Even with my current half a clutch pedal (the grip part has fallen off and is currently in the ashtray awaiting me to find some super glue to put it back on again), it's not something that is likely to make me buy an auto.

Sadly that won't be a choice, more a lack of options - unless I can convince SWMBO we don't need 4 doors. Or I buy an M3

[RobM77]

Quick thread update for anyone interested: Two weeks ago I test drove a 2014 F10 530d M Sport with the ZF HP8 auto box and I picked it up on Saturday Yes, I did surprise myself by liking it. The clincher for me was the paddle shift, which I hadn't tried before; as others on this thread have said, you can see a nice sequence of bends coming up, tap the '-', enjoy the bends with greater control at higher revs, and then back off afterwards and it flips back into 'D'. Or, if it's a long stretch, you can run in full manual mode. I think with bad software the box could be truly awful and frustrating (like a traditional auto), but as programmed it seems to work with me, rather than against me. It reminds me of the double clutch 'box in the E92 M3 actually, rather than traditional autos I've tried in the past. I do actually find that the throttle response in D at typical revs in 'comfort' mode is enough to balance the car in most corners, although obviously snicking down a gear or two improves things further. The only negatives are obviously the weight of the auto box, and hesitancy pulling away from rest. Thankfully though I almost never come to a rest on my commute and I very rarely drive in traffic.

I think if I'd bought another 3 series I'd have again gone for the much lighter manual 'box, the lighter '20d engine and the Birds suspension, no question. I'd then have another great handling car biased for twisty B roads. My commute is quite long though, we do a lot of social motorway miles at weekends, and I'm near the limit for towing safely with a 3, so I thought I'd take a punt on a 5 series. Once you've got that much larger and heavier car, I think the '30d engine is perhaps better suited and the weight penalty less of an issue; likewise with the near 90kg auto box.

I've actually been pleasantly surprised by the handling. Yes, it's clearly not a patch on my old 3 on Birds suspension, which was probably the best handling 3 series I've ever driven, or at least equal to my other two favourites, the E46 M3 and 328i Sport. However, with the 530d M Sport BMW have done a stunning job at making such a heavy car handle well and still feel relaxing to drive. I'm impressed by the setup.

It was a bit of a gamble, I admit, but I'm liking it so far. The refinement is the nicest thing, although annoyingly despite being near silent below about 50mph, it is noisier on motorways due to the big wheels and tyres. I'm wondering whether that could be improved by ditching RFTs, but last time I did that I ended up with a blancmange and couldn't wait to get back to the RFTs...

[BFleming]

My 525d has paddles too, and I use them! But with the diesel you don't get the exhaust note, so I find myself looking at the instruments to see where the RPM's are, and also what gear it's in, then decide if I want to change. But for that instant kickdown in a non-violent / controlled way, the paddles are great.
The only exception to the noise element was my recent return from Spain; the car was reasonably well loaded with the seats down - and the exhaust noise was very noticeable, especially when using the paddles in Sport mode - immense fun in the Basque mountains.

[RobM77]

BFleming said:

My 525d has paddles too, and I use them! But with the diesel you don't get the exhaust note, so I find myself looking at the instruments to see where the RPM's are, and also what gear it's in, then decide if I want to change. But for that instant kickdown in a non-violent / controlled way, the paddles are great.
The only exception to the noise element was my recent return from Spain; the car was reasonably well loaded with the seats down - and the exhaust noise was very noticeable, especially when using the paddles in Sport mode - immense fun in the Basque mountains.

Yes, I'm new luxury cars, so not having that audible or sensory feedback from the engine is a new thing for me. Mind you, one flick of the '-' paddle usually gets you at the right revs.

[bigdom]

RobM77 said:

The refinement is the nicest thing, although annoyingly despite being near silent below about 50mph, it is noisier on motorways due to the big wheels and tyres.

Other suppliers are available, although this would solve the issue. https://www.deadening.co.uk/

[Court_S]

The ZF8 and 30d engine is a very good combo - left to its own devices, the gearbox does a grand job of keeping the engine in the power band. A longer pull of the paddles will give you multiple gear changes.

[Jasey_]

Court_S said:

The ZF8 and 30d engine is a very good combo - left to its own devices, the gearbox does a grand job of keeping the engine in the power band. A longer pull of the paddles will give you multiple gear changes.

hard enough keeping track of what gear you're in without it jumping more than one with each pull

[RobM77]

Jasey_ said:

Court_S said:

The ZF8 and 30d engine is a very good combo - left to its own devices, the gearbox does a grand job of keeping the engine in the power band. A longer pull of the paddles will give you multiple gear changes.

hard enough keeping track of what gear you're in without it jumping more than one with each pull

I have to admit, it's not something I'd make much use of, but it's a party trick the ZF8 seems to boast about in all the info I've read. I've also just read in the manual that pulling both together, or the right one for longer, puts the car back in D manually, rather than waiting for the computer to do it.

[bmwmike]

cerb4.5lee said:

Mr Tidy said:

N/A straight 6 petrol and a manual box is pretty special - I did 200+ miles in a day a week or so ago in my Z4 Coupe and loved it. Custom Cat-back exhaust helped no end.

But today I did a local trip in my E90 330i with the same N52 engine and a manual box, and while it was so much more refined it was still very enjoyable!

The N52 is an awesome engine for sure ...but a dying breed sadly. It is easily one of the most smooth engines that I've ever experienced.

We are in a time where autos/turbos/emissions/mpgs rule though. I do understand why though...but that doesn't stop me from enjoying and appreciating the old way of doing things though for sure.

Zf8 auto with an n53 here and it's a lovely combination. I wouldn't go back to a manual over the zf8. Wide power band and fast gear changes, superb combo. For all the talk here about diesel suiting the auto that's only because of the narrow power band and reduced effort letting the box swap cogs to keep it on torque. May as well have a CVT. I'll take long legs and high revs any day.

[Wills2]

I had a G20 320d manual for 6 days earlier in the month, I really didn't like that combination in fact it was awful, breathless engine and long throw rubbery gearbox.

[Poppiecock]

RobM77 said:

However, with the 530d M Sport BMW have done a stunning job at making such a heavy car handle well and still feel relaxing to drive. I'm impressed by the setup.

I personally don’t like the MSport suspension and think the ride / handling compromise of the Luxury setup (SE suspension with 18” wheels on runflats) is better.

[BFleming]

Poppiecock said:

RobM77 said:

However, with the 530d M Sport BMW have done a stunning job at making such a heavy car handle well and still feel relaxing to drive. I'm impressed by the setup.

I personally don’t like the MSport suspension and think the ride / handling compromise of the Luxury setup (SE suspension with 18” wheels on runflats) is better.

Mine started as an SE, on 17in runflats, although it has the optional EDC. I found the ride hard (not harsh though). It's now on Eibach springs up front, lowered rear to suit (it's a laptop job on the F11) and it rides really well on non-standard 18in BBS CK wheels & non-runflats. So much better than how it came originally.

[RobM77]

Poppiecock said:

RobM77 said:

However, with the 530d M Sport BMW have done a stunning job at making such a heavy car handle well and still feel relaxing to drive. I'm impressed by the setup.

I personally don’t like the MSport suspension and think the ride / handling compromise of the Luxury setup (SE suspension with 18” wheels on runflats) is better.

It's a matter of taste I guess and it's nice for us to have the choice. I've only had the briefest of drives in an SE spec F10, many years ago. However, I've had a whole day with an SE spec F30 3 series recently and was utterly horrified; it was a soggy mess. I wasn't very keen on the SE spec 1 series either, so based on that I looked for an M Sport 5 series. I should add that I'm a very keen driver and am very focused on ride and handling, with the emphasis on handling. My last car was a 3 on Birds springs, dampers and ARBs.