Has anyone ever grown to like an auto?

[bmwmike]

Heel and toe - used to do that occasionally in my petrol E46 and it's very satisfying. No need in an auto haha.

F10 msport suspension I find ok most of the time on firmer tyre pressures but body roll in fast long curves is ridiculous. Be interested to know if fatter ARB are the answer (rears are puny) and if anyone's done that.

[RobM77]

bmwmike said:

Heel and toe - used to do that occasionally in my petrol E46 and it's very satisfying. No need in an auto haha.

I just find it annoying on here how people think you're some sort of driving snob if you do it all the time. For me it's totally normal. My Dad (and Grandfather when he was alive) rev matches every gearchange too, and he's never raced or even done track days, it's just what you do when you drive a manual. I learnt to heel and toe when I learnt to drive along with everything else and never thought anything of it until I started reading PH!

bmwmike said:

F10 msport suspension I find ok most of the time on firmer tyre pressures but body roll in fast long curves is ridiculous. Be interested to know if fatter ARB are the answer (rears are puny) and if anyone's done that.

I did it on my E90 with a full Birds kit and yes, the ARBs worked wonders. Like a Lotus, it rode well down bumpy roads, but cornered totally flat. Birds don't do suspension kits for the 5 series, just the 1, 2, 3 and 4.

[Pica-Pica]

Just come back from shopping, and caught the tourists arriving for the bank holiday weekend. That is when the manual selection on ZF8 comes into its own. Full control over accelerating and engine braking in stop start traffic - without the left leg pumping up and down (standard manual box) or right leg constantly braking (standard auto box). Knock the lever left into sport and then lever up and down or use paddles. Once the traffic begins to open up the right fingers on the + paddle move you up, until you wish to hand over to D.

[RichardJS]

Poppiecock said:

ED models used to run on their own specific suspension and tyre combination - I think they had the MSport ride height but 16" wheels and balloon tyres.

F10 SE spec. runs on 17" wheels with non RFT balloons, whilst the Luxury gets 18" RFTs. SE can feel a bit soft and wallowy - but with the bigger wheels and lower profile RFTs, it stiffens things a fair bit, without getting the hardness you get with an MSport. By far my favourite combination for a daily driver.
(And I found the Lux. seats more comfortable than the MSport seats).

F10s and F11s are very sensitive to tyres - one set of fronts made it almost un-driveable in lane 1 of motorways due to the tram lining. This calmed over time as the tyres wore. But nobody ever seems to be able to fix the inside edge wear. You have to keep a close eye on tread depth - a colleague was almost down to the canvas when I pointed this out to him.

I think the M Sport adaptive with 18" wheels on my F10 is OK, if a little harsh over bumps and a bit vague at speed. But I found the standard M Sport with 19" wheels on the F10 loan car I had for several weeks when mine was in for EGR cooler was far too harsh - quite unpleasant even on a motorway - and felt like it was going to bounce the car off the road on undulations on country lanes (on roads I knew well and were no problem at all for my own car).

[RichardJS]

Wills2 said:

I had a G20 320d manual for 6 days earlier in the month, I really didn't like that combination in fact it was awful, breathless engine and long throw rubbery gearbox.

That's a shame - I thought a new manual 320d might be my next car. I've not driven one yet.

[RobM77]

RichardJS said:

Poppiecock said:

ED models used to run on their own specific suspension and tyre combination - I think they had the MSport ride height but 16" wheels and balloon tyres.

F10 SE spec. runs on 17" wheels with non RFT balloons, whilst the Luxury gets 18" RFTs. SE can feel a bit soft and wallowy - but with the bigger wheels and lower profile RFTs, it stiffens things a fair bit, without getting the hardness you get with an MSport. By far my favourite combination for a daily driver.
(And I found the Lux. seats more comfortable than the MSport seats).

F10s and F11s are very sensitive to tyres - one set of fronts made it almost un-driveable in lane 1 of motorways due to the tram lining. This calmed over time as the tyres wore. But nobody ever seems to be able to fix the inside edge wear. You have to keep a close eye on tread depth - a colleague was almost down to the canvas when I pointed this out to him.

I think the M Sport adaptive with 18" wheels on my F10 is OK, if a little harsh over bumps and a bit vague at speed. But I found the standard M Sport with 19" wheels on the F10 loan car I had for several weeks when mine was in for EGR cooler was far too harsh - quite unpleasant even on a motorway - and felt like it was going to bounce the car off the road on undulations on country lanes (on roads I knew well and were no problem at all for my own car).

Thanks for the tip on tyre wear PC - I'll make sure I reach right in and check the inside edges.

I find the ride on the 19s ok, just a bit jiggly in secondary ride; which reminds me of my Z4 Coupé. Just a big wheeled BMW thing I guess; personally I always preferred them on smaller wheels (me last car was an E90 ED on the 16s), but when you buy secondhand you can't pick and choose! I wanted the HK stereo, and that came with 19s in an 'M Sport plus' package...

Any recommendations on tyres? I don't care about grip or traction, I just want something quiet on the motorway that won't soften the ride too much on the lanes near where I live and work. The motorway noise is leaning me towards ditching runflats, but past experience is making me worry it'll become too soft if I do that.

[xjay1337]

I don't understand you Rob.

You rattle on about "mid corner throttle adjustability" and all of that rubbish but you "don't care about grip" when it comes to tyres? Hmm.

[RichardJS]

xjay1337 said:

I don't understand you Rob.

You rattle on about "mid corner throttle adjustability" and all of that rubbish but you "don't care about grip" when it comes to tyres? Hmm.

I understand exactly what he means!

[Poppiecock]

RobM77 said:

Any recommendations on tyres? I don't care about grip or traction, I just want something quiet on the motorway that won't soften the ride too much on the lanes near where I live and work. The motorway noise is leaning me towards ditching runflats, but past experience is making me worry it'll become too soft if I do that.

Sorry, I'm not great with tyres - just chuck it at National and take whatever is in stock.

I recall Bridgestones are less likely to tramline than Goodyears, but couldn't tell you which specific tyre model to look for.

[RobM77]

xjay1337 said:

I don't understand you Rob.

You rattle on about "mid corner throttle adjustability" and all of that rubbish but you "don't care about grip" when it comes to tyres? Hmm.

I’m genuinely confused by this. What is the relationship between liking driving and liking higher cornering speeds? Surely there is none?

I like a balanced car, I like a car that can be balanced, I like a car that communicates its balance, and I like a car that has the controls to effectively control its balance. None of that is related to how much grip I have. It doesn’t matter to me if I’m doing 70mph or 50mph around a corner; I find that completely irrelevant to the enjoyment of driving. If anything, I prefer lower grip because I have more to do and enjoy within the confines of the law.

[RobM77]

xjay1337 said:

I don't understand you Rob.

You rattle on about "mid corner throttle adjustability" and all of that rubbish but you "don't care about grip" when it comes to tyres? Hmm.

One other thing: Almost my entire enjoyment of driving is handling through corners. Why is that ‘rubbish’? Is it because that’s not what you enjoy? How is that related to what I enjoy? Are we not allowed to be different?

[xjay1337]

You sound like you want optimum driving pleasure and safety. Hence you go go on about "mid corner adjustability" or "balance" or something else on every post

That comes from having the best tyres. The best tyres give the best feedback, stability, predictability and safety.

By saying you don't care about grip , that implies you don't care about how a tyre interacts with the road so you would fit a deliberately poor tyre?

Maybe I'm miles wide of the ball park but that's what it comes across like

[RobM77]

Oh right, well that’s just a bunch of stuff you’ve made up. I can’t help you with that

[bmwmike]

RobM77 said:

Oh right, well that’s just a bunch of stuff you’ve made up. I can’t help you with that

Isn't xjay the same guy who reckons there is no difference between FWD and RWD... nuff said haha

[xjay1337]

Yeah, that's what I said! Not :-)

[RobM77]

xjay1337 said:

Yeah, that's what I said! Not :-)

Has someone inferred a big list of stuff from something you’ve said?

[JamesRR]

RobM77 said:

Thanks for the tip on tyre wear PC - I'll make sure I reach right in and check the inside edges.

I find the ride on the 19s ok, just a bit jiggly in secondary ride; which reminds me of my Z4 Coupé. Just a big wheeled BMW thing I guess; personally I always preferred them on smaller wheels (me last car was an E90 ED on the 16s), but when you buy secondhand you can't pick and choose! I wanted the HK stereo, and that came with 19s in an 'M Sport plus' package...

Any recommendations on tyres? I don't care about grip or traction, I just want something quiet on the motorway that won't soften the ride too much on the lanes near where I live and work. The motorway noise is leaning me towards ditching runflats, but past experience is making me worry it'll become too soft if I do that.

I recently replaced the factory Conti runflats on my 320d M Sport with Maxxis VS01 non runflats. This is an F30 on 18” wheels. Marked improvement in ride quality and NVH characteristics. Plenty of grip too, no doubt PS4S or Cup 2 Michelin’s etc are grippier but I think they are overkill for normal road cars really.

[RobM77]

JamesRR said:

RobM77 said:

Thanks for the tip on tyre wear PC - I'll make sure I reach right in and check the inside edges.

I find the ride on the 19s ok, just a bit jiggly in secondary ride; which reminds me of my Z4 Coupé. Just a big wheeled BMW thing I guess; personally I always preferred them on smaller wheels (me last car was an E90 ED on the 16s), but when you buy secondhand you can't pick and choose! I wanted the HK stereo, and that came with 19s in an 'M Sport plus' package...

Any recommendations on tyres? I don't care about grip or traction, I just want something quiet on the motorway that won't soften the ride too much on the lanes near where I live and work. The motorway noise is leaning me towards ditching runflats, but past experience is making me worry it'll become too soft if I do that.

I recently replaced the factory Conti runflats on my 320d M Sport with Maxxis VS01 non runflats. This is an F30 on 18” wheels. Marked improvement in ride quality and NVH characteristics. Plenty of grip too, no doubt PS4S or Cup 2 Michelin’s etc are grippier but I think they are overkill for normal road cars really.

Thank you. I think it may well be worth trying non RFTs (provided my wife’s aware we met her stranded if we get a flat!).

I agree; I think most modern cars have more than enough grip. On track it doesn’t matter cause you drive flat out regardless, but on the road you’re far more limited by speed limits, other cars, etc. As such, I actually much prefer the feel of a car that has lower grip to one with more grip. As such, if I’m buying 275 tears or 245 fronts for my 5 series, even the crappiest tyres are going to be fine for grip. On the flip side, sportier tyres do generally respond better, but the net effect is I’m not really bothered about grip in a road car, because I know they’ll be more than enough.

[bmwmike]

RobM77 said:

xjay1337 said:

Yeah, that's what I said! Not :-)

Has someone inferred a big list of stuff from something you’ve said?

Not exactly inferred. I'd quote directly if I could be bothered going back but it was something like "a feeling is not a sensation" and "nobody can tell the difference between a fwd and RWD because I drive both day in day out and I can't tell the difference so there cant be any difference". Etc

[xjay1337]

A feeling is not a sensation? Dont think I said that. So it would be wise to quote me there.

Also , again, what I said was that in a normal drive, IE To work, the shops, the cinema, you will not notice the nuances between fwd and rwd.
Maybe if you drove an Austin Maxi and then a Ferrari 458.

Or an Mgb and then a Civic Type R.

But between modern cars with modern suspension systems there are not any differences, certainly that I nor any of my other car buddies, Mrs or relatives can tell.

Of course if you start testing out the limits of grip or enjoy seeing your esp light flickering away, then you can tell pretty rapidly. But you do not do that on a NORMAL DRIVE.

That's my opinion. Based on having to often jump straight between cars. I feel that some people over-inflate their ability to differentiate because it's Pistonheads and we are all secretly Chris Harris. That's also my opinion.

Maybe Rob can tell because he perhaps has slightly less grippy tyres so the differences are excentuated ??? :P

now we can all be friends.