BMW - Just when you think it couldn't get any worse!
Discussion
OldGermanHeaps said:
the s
tty thing isn't that you need to pay for options you already paid for in the purchase price of the car
This. For example with adaptive high beam/high beam assistant - the moving reflectors and sensors that are required are already on the car and you've paid for that to be there whether you want it or not. I wouldn't tick that option on my spec sheet under normal circumstances in days gone by thus saving me on the overall cost of the car. tty thing isn't that you need to pay for options you already paid for in the purchase price of the carbristolracer said:
Ties in nicely with the leasing business model.
If you lease a car currently you pay a higher price for options.
No, you pay the same price but it is only amortised on a shorter period. The solution is to not buy options on a lease, as you can lease any spec level. Simple, isn't it? If you lease a car currently you pay a higher price for options.
MarkJS said:
This. For example with adaptive high beam/high beam assistant - the moving reflectors and sensors that are required are already on the car and you've paid for that to be there whether you want it or not. I wouldn't tick that option on my spec sheet under normal circumstances in days gone by thus saving me on the overall cost of the car.
If BMW increase the cost of their base models to take into account all the extras being fitted, then surely this is an opportunity for other manufacturers to undercut BMW by sticking to the current business model of only fitting extras on request?The reality is that the hardware costs pennies and having a production process where cars have to have different equipment fitted based on options is time consuming and inefficient.
OldGermanHeaps said:
the stty thing isn't that you need to pay for options you already paid for in the purchase price of the car, the stty thing is that its a subscription, you need to pay over and over again. If you have paid for the hardware, and you pay to unlock it it should stay unlocked.
But it's not a subscription is it? You're purchasing the high beam assist feature just like you can purchase all manner of retro fitted accessories from a dealer. tty thing isn't that you need to pay for options you already paid for in the purchase price of the car, the stty thing is that its a subscription, you need to pay over and over again. If you have paid for the hardware, and you pay to unlock it it should stay unlocked.You didn't pay for the option if you didn't actually pay for it at the time of purchasing the car, what is so hard to understand?
It does seem a bit nuts to have all the systems already on the car but waiting to be activated if the customer pays up.
Can I have the car that doesn't have any of these 'extras' built in from the factory. Surely that'll be a bargain.
Reminds me of a video camera I bought about 20 years ago. Various presses on the remote got you into the 'engineering' menu and hey presto! I was able to switch on the features that the more expensive model had.
I paid £700 for the camera and now had the benefits of the £1000 camera.
Can I have the car that doesn't have any of these 'extras' built in from the factory. Surely that'll be a bargain.
Reminds me of a video camera I bought about 20 years ago. Various presses on the remote got you into the 'engineering' menu and hey presto! I was able to switch on the features that the more expensive model had.
I paid £700 for the camera and now had the benefits of the £1000 camera.
Wills2 said:
But it's not a subscription is it? You're purchasing the high beam assist feature just like you can purchase all manner of retro fitted accessories from a dealer.
You didn't pay for the option if you didn't actually pay for it at the time of purchasing the car, what is so hard to understand?
The cost of the hardware has to be absorbed somewhere. You didn't pay for the option if you didn't actually pay for it at the time of purchasing the car, what is so hard to understand?
Although these additional options are not functioning the additional parts have already been fitted.
croyde said:
It does seem a bit nuts to have all the systems already on the car but waiting to be activated if the customer pays up.
Can I have the car that doesn't have any of these 'extras' built in from the factory. Surely that'll be a bargain.
Reminds me of a video camera I bought about 20 years ago. Various presses on the remote got you into the 'engineering' menu and hey presto! I was able to switch on the features that the more expensive model had.
I paid £700 for the camera and now had the benefits of the £1000 camera.
Its cheaper to build a model with everything as standard than option up everything, but then you lose the ability to cater a cheaper model. Can I have the car that doesn't have any of these 'extras' built in from the factory. Surely that'll be a bargain.
Reminds me of a video camera I bought about 20 years ago. Various presses on the remote got you into the 'engineering' menu and hey presto! I was able to switch on the features that the more expensive model had.
I paid £700 for the camera and now had the benefits of the £1000 camera.
Ie the car might cost 20k with no options and 40k with all the options ticked but BMW might be able to make every option for 30k because of the economies of scale, but then all the tight b
ds that want to spend 20k would by a ford instead. So they thus charge then enable only the people who want the options.It Seems mad but it kind of makes sense.
Teddy Lop said:
Its cheaper to build a model with everything as standard than option up everything, but then you lose the ability to cater a cheaper model.
Ie the car might cost 20k with no options and 40k with all the options ticked but BMW might be able to make every option for 30k because of the economies of scale, but then all the tight bds that want to spend 20k would by a ford instead. So they thus charge then enable only the people who want the options.
It Seems mad but it kind of makes sense.
Some confusion between price and cost there.Ie the car might cost 20k with no options and 40k with all the options ticked but BMW might be able to make every option for 30k because of the economies of scale, but then all the tight b
ds that want to spend 20k would by a ford instead. So they thus charge then enable only the people who want the options.It Seems mad but it kind of makes sense.
I once had a low-spec mondeo, bought second hand at about 7 years old.
Some online research showed me how to enable the 1-touch windows, motion autolock & window operation via the remote. It involved ignition key positions & clicking a few switches, nothing more.
I'm sure a relatively simple way around it will be found, possibly similar to the way aftermarket remaps are performed.
Some online research showed me how to enable the 1-touch windows, motion autolock & window operation via the remote. It involved ignition key positions & clicking a few switches, nothing more.
I'm sure a relatively simple way around it will be found, possibly similar to the way aftermarket remaps are performed.
mcpoot said:
For the love of Christ give it a rest Eric!
Seriously you need help.
Can't suck up the truth? It's hardly news that BMW are fleecing customers, the owner's of course in a constant state of denial. Seriously you need help.
I'm ok with a low rent 1 series not having much 'spec' but would expect 3 series and certainly 5 series above to be pretty fully equipped and I know that's not the case. My Honda Accord, Lexus and Subaru were far better equipped than a comparable BMW for the year, and it doesn't look like they are getting any more generous.
Edited by ericmcn on Thursday 15th August 12:37
A long time ago, I read an article that said it would be cheaper for them to make every car have every option, than have the the complicated production line associated with fitting things that were selected.
They didn't because of the moral issue of (for example) having ABS fitted, but not activated. In the event of an accident, there could have been a situation where the driver would have lived if the installed system was paid for, but didn't pay for it, so died. The bad press would have been terrible.
Isn't this just what Tesla are doing anyway?
The only differences between the cars coming off the line are exterior and interior colour, and then the configuration. Must massively simplify the production line.
They didn't because of the moral issue of (for example) having ABS fitted, but not activated. In the event of an accident, there could have been a situation where the driver would have lived if the installed system was paid for, but didn't pay for it, so died. The bad press would have been terrible.
Isn't this just what Tesla are doing anyway?
The only differences between the cars coming off the line are exterior and interior colour, and then the configuration. Must massively simplify the production line.
ericmcn said:
Can't suck up the truth? It's hardly news that BMW are fleecing customers, the owner's of course in a constant state of denial.
I'm ok with a low rent 1 series not having much 'spec' but would expect 3 series and certainly 5 series above to be pretty fully equipped and I know that's not the case. My Honda Accord, Lexus and Subaru were far better equipped than a comparable BMW for the year, and it doesn't look like they are getting any more generous.
At least my BMW was equipped with a throttle that can be held at a constant level, without constantly wanting to deposit my car into the boot of a Honda Jazz. I'm ok with a low rent 1 series not having much 'spec' but would expect 3 series and certainly 5 series above to be pretty fully equipped and I know that's not the case. My Honda Accord, Lexus and Subaru were far better equipped than a comparable BMW for the year, and it doesn't look like they are getting any more generous.
Edited by ericmcn on Thursday 15th August 12:37
Teddy Lop said:
croyde said:
It does seem a bit nuts to have all the systems already on the car but waiting to be activated if the customer pays up.
Can I have the car that doesn't have any of these 'extras' built in from the factory. Surely that'll be a bargain.
Reminds me of a video camera I bought about 20 years ago. Various presses on the remote got you into the 'engineering' menu and hey presto! I was able to switch on the features that the more expensive model had.
I paid £700 for the camera and now had the benefits of the £1000 camera.
Its cheaper to build a model with everything as standard than option up everything, but then you lose the ability to cater a cheaper model. Can I have the car that doesn't have any of these 'extras' built in from the factory. Surely that'll be a bargain.
Reminds me of a video camera I bought about 20 years ago. Various presses on the remote got you into the 'engineering' menu and hey presto! I was able to switch on the features that the more expensive model had.
I paid £700 for the camera and now had the benefits of the £1000 camera.
Ie the car might cost 20k with no options and 40k with all the options ticked but BMW might be able to make every option for 30k because of the economies of scale, but then all the tight b
ds that want to spend 20k would by a ford instead. So they thus charge then enable only the people who want the options.It Seems mad but it kind of makes sense.
The various options particularly are easy to include or omit. Paint colour is one of the more significant variations but even that’s not too bad.
REALIST123 said:
Teddy Lop said:
croyde said:
It does seem a bit nuts to have all the systems already on the car but waiting to be activated if the customer pays up.
Can I have the car that doesn't have any of these 'extras' built in from the factory. Surely that'll be a bargain.
Reminds me of a video camera I bought about 20 years ago. Various presses on the remote got you into the 'engineering' menu and hey presto! I was able to switch on the features that the more expensive model had.
I paid £700 for the camera and now had the benefits of the £1000 camera.
Its cheaper to build a model with everything as standard than option up everything, but then you lose the ability to cater a cheaper model. Can I have the car that doesn't have any of these 'extras' built in from the factory. Surely that'll be a bargain.
Reminds me of a video camera I bought about 20 years ago. Various presses on the remote got you into the 'engineering' menu and hey presto! I was able to switch on the features that the more expensive model had.
I paid £700 for the camera and now had the benefits of the £1000 camera.
Ie the car might cost 20k with no options and 40k with all the options ticked but BMW might be able to make every option for 30k because of the economies of scale, but then all the tight b
ds that want to spend 20k would by a ford instead. So they thus charge then enable only the people who want the options.It Seems mad but it kind of makes sense.
The various options particularly are easy to include or omit. Paint colour is one of the more significant variations but even that’s not too bad.
e.g. signoff on something (seemingly) straightforward like a new brake pad friction compound could easily end up costing seven figures. Obviously there are efficiencies to be had by only testing "worst cases" and things like that, but generally speaking it's bloody expensive for car manufacturers to do all the internal (homologation/legal requirements are relatively cheap) development tests for even a simple part that ends up costing a few quid to buy in a parts department 5 years later.
nickfrog said:
You are confusing model/size with trim level.
Confusion is your forte eric, I'll give you that.
The Subaru is fully loaded as standard - no 2008 BMW 3 series will have all that without upgrading, the Lexus was SEL so top spec but even in SE trim would have more 'extras' than a BMW 3 series off the production line - even the low rent Accord was better equipped than a BMW 3 series in 2005 back then.Confusion is your forte eric, I'll give you that.
No confusion on my part but the owners in denial should get some help, plus BMW remember are at the bottom of the pile in surveys for the last number of years so it’s a bit $hitty to be asking for all this extra money for cars that are not all that reliable in the first place.
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff