335i - Turbos Failing?

[Sohaib-ijiiv]

Hi All,

I have an 07 e93 335i with 67k on the clock and what are the factory fit turbos, its also never been walnut blasted but all other maintenance has been done by the book at BMW.

I get the feeling that something isnt right with the turbos for two reasons, firstly I have heard a very feint chattering type noise between 2-3k when I am driving which makes me think its the famous wastegate issue albeit I cant reproduce the sound when the car is idling.

Secondly I have never ever managed to break traction with DTC completely off, launching it in 1st (its the zf auto) it just lazily comes to life and then takes off as I would expect around 2.5krpm onwards. This was on a private road and even brake boosting it couldnt break traction. I don't think its due to me having amazing tyres either. My friend in a 320i managed to break traction with minimal effort.

Does this sound like the turbos are on their way out?

Thanks!

[trickywoo]

Attend to the wastegate issue first.

Turbos don’t just pack up by themselves. You’ll nearly always see oil leaks or other issues first.

[Andy70]

I have a 2007 335i and i got my turbos rebuilt at 85kish thinking it was just waste gate rattle and as it turned out the seals were gone, I was having a rebuild any way so no problem. The point is, if they have to come out, you may as well get them done fully as its quite a labour intensive job. PMP charged me £990 for a complete rebuild and i was over the moon. they were miles away from me but i just wandered around Nuneaton for a few hours and they were done by 3pm and fitted upgrade parts too for me, oh the £990 included uprated flappers by the way... Bargain!!!

[Luckyone]

Andy70 said:

I have a 2007 335i and i got my turbos rebuilt at 85kish thinking it was just waste gate rattle and as it turned out the seals were gone, I was having a rebuild any way so no problem. The point is, if they have to come out, you may as well get them done fully as its quite a labour intensive job. PMP charged me £990 for a complete rebuild and i was over the moon. they were miles away from me but i just wandered around Nuneaton for a few hours and they were done by 3pm and fitted upgrade parts too for me, oh the £990 included uprated flappers by the way... Bargain!!!

How much different did it feel after you had them done? My 2007 335i is on 90k, the turbos seem ok but it it is a little sluggish at low revs compared to the E39 530i (both being similar autos) it still flys at higher RPM though.

Before I changed the VANOS seals the E39 felt much like the 335i does now, I was wondering if it was the same thing but from a few searches it seem the N54 doesn’t suffer the same VANOS issue as the M54.

[Dizeee]

You'll have the N54 which is twin turbo, and this is a common issue with them. Second hand buyers are advised to ensure the turbos have ben replaced, many were done under warranty owing to issues in the cars early life.

I am not saying your issue is the turbos, but that this is a known issue amongst the N54's.

[Andy70]

Luckyone said:

Andy70 said:

I have a 2007 335i and i got my turbos rebuilt at 85kish thinking it was just waste gate rattle and as it turned out the seals were gone, I was having a rebuild any way so no problem. The point is, if they have to come out, you may as well get them done fully as its quite a labour intensive job. PMP charged me £990 for a complete rebuild and i was over the moon. they were miles away from me but i just wandered around Nuneaton for a few hours and they were done by 3pm and fitted upgrade parts too for me, oh the £990 included uprated flappers by the way... Bargain!!!

How much different did it feel after you had them done? My 2007 335i is on 90k, the turbos seem ok but it it is a little sluggish at low revs compared to the E39 530i (both being similar autos) it still flys at higher RPM though.

Before I changed the VANOS seals the E39 felt much like the 335i does now, I was wondering if it was the same thing but from a few searches it seem the N54 doesn’t suffer the same VANOS issue as the M54.

Hard to say as I have a JB4 thingy set on auto remap setting or something and I also had so inlet pipes fitted at the same time, so I noticed a massive difference, however there was a lot less lag and I'm sure that was down to dodgy seals on the turbos, presumably as the car wasn't spooling up properly. I did put a thread on here about it when I bought the car, I knew the turbos needed attention when I got it but never knew how much. I was complaining about huge turbo lag, comparing it to old Impreza imports I used to own but that was normal for them but it picks up pretty quick now. I have uprated intercooler and charge pipe too I had fitted a while ago and I struggle for traction even in the dry on some roads and I have Michelin Pilot Sports fitted to the back, so short of a limited slip diff that's as much grip as I'm going to get probably. Its a rapid car really. Cant wait to get an uprated exhaust and custom remap now, finish it off a treat :-) and ditch the JB4

[Luckyone]

Tuning options are very tempting! I have a 200sx with boost controllers, better intercooler etc braking traction isn’t a problem in that, quite the opposite! But as you said the turbo lag is comical. In a way it makes the 200sx feel faster than the Cerbera as the boost kicking really pushes you back in the seat. The 335i is much more like the Cerbera with a very linear power delivery, I thought that was the point of it to not feel like a turbo car?

I’m just fitting new suspension to my 335i at the moment, it was so bad before I didn’t really try very hard to see how well it went but I was very impressed with how instant the power was when joining an A road from a roundabout from about 20mph. It just seems a little slow when pulling off from standstill out of a junction compared to the 530i.

I assume the 335i has a small & larger turbo for lower & higher RPMs? But I don’t imagine even a small turbo is going to be working from idle. Really off boost the N54 should have the same performance as the M54 (unless the CR has been massively reduced, but I thought they were quite small turbos). But as I said the 335i from standstill feels like the 530i did before I changed the VANOS seals.
Basically I have to press the accelerator down quite a lot more to get it to pull off than I do in the 530i. They are both drive by wire so it could just be the curves programmed in are different.

Sohaib-ijiiv said:

Hi All,

I have an 07 e93 335i with 67k on the clock and what are the factory fit turbos, its also never been walnut blasted but all other maintenance has been done by the book at BMW.

I get the feeling that something isnt right with the turbos for two reasons, firstly I have heard a very feint chattering type noise between 2-3k when I am driving which makes me think its the famous wastegate issue albeit I cant reproduce the sound when the car is idling.

Secondly I have never ever managed to break traction with DTC completely off, launching it in 1st (its the zf auto) it just lazily comes to life and then takes off as I would expect around 2.5krpm onwards. This was on a private road and even brake boosting it couldnt break traction. I don't think its due to me having amazing tyres either. My friend in a 320i managed to break traction with minimal effort.

Does this sound like the turbos are on their way out?

Thanks!

I’m surprised your friend was able to easily break traction in a 320i, was it a manual? I assume you were trying on the very same bit of private road? As I said our E39 touring 530i goes very well but it doesn’t tend to break traction, not that I have tried that much really. Depends on definitions though the 530i will certainly trouble the tyres but my definition is huge 11s all the way up the road with masses of smoke if your really trying!

That my only issue with properly fast BMWs you have to intentionally disable the traction control to spin the wheels. The BIB have always been very good natured if they spot me braking traction in the 200sx or Cerb they are nearly all all petrol heads them selves & understand it’s easy to accidentally brake traction in those with no traction control.

We had a quite new 640d a while ago, that did easily brake traction gliding gracefully sideways out of junctions (with the TC off!) but you have to make sure it’s really is on a private road.

Back to your point, though I’ll try a bit harder to see if mine can brake traction when its back together. I would assume it should really.

In the meantime can you not plug in some hand held code scanner to see if it shows boost pressure? I think mine should, I’ll try that too when it’s working again.

[Sohaib-ijiiv]

Luckyone said:

I’m surprised your friend was able to easily break traction in a 320i, was it a manual? I assume you were trying on the very same bit of private road? As I said our E39 touring 530i goes very well but it doesn’t tend to break traction, not that I have tried that much really. Depends on definitions though the 530i will certainly trouble the tyres but my definition is huge 11s all the way up the road with masses of smoke if your really trying!

That my only issue with properly fast BMWs you have to intentionally disable the traction control to spin the wheels. The BIB have always been very good natured if they spot me braking traction in the 200sx or Cerb they are nearly all all petrol heads them selves & understand it’s easy to accidentally brake traction in those with no traction control.

We had a quite new 640d a while ago, that did easily brake traction gliding gracefully sideways out of junctions (with the TC off!) but you have to make sure it’s really is on a private road.

Back to your point, though I’ll try a bit harder to see if mine can brake traction when its back together. I would assume it should really.

In the meantime can you not plug in some hand held code scanner to see if it shows boost pressure? I think mine should, I’ll try that too when it’s working again.

Yep, same road and he does have a manual.

It just feels completely flat from standstill till about 3k where it comes to life.

I haven't got any fault codes or anything, however I do have a dcan cable so I could check boost pressure - Is there any particular app you recommend?

[Luckyone]

Sohaib-ijiiv said:

Yep, same road and he does have a manual.

It just feels completely flat from standstill till about 3k where it comes to life.

I haven't got any fault codes or anything, however I do have a dcan cable so I could check boost pressure - Is there any particular app you recommend?

It is a lot easier to get a manual to spin the wheels as you have all the momentum of the flywheel to suddenly release but still I’d have thought a 335i auto still should be able to spin them really. I’m interested to see if mine will now!

I haven’t looked into the workings of the N54 very much yet. I would imagine the DME can see the boost pressure of each turbo, would make like much easier for you if it can. Assuming it has got a smaller turbo for lower RPMs it sounds like its not getting to pressure for some reason (possibly the rattle) If you can see the pressure of each turbo separately it should obvious if one isn’t making good pressure.
The DME may only be able to see a single MAP sensor that would make it harder.
Mine had a vacuum line hanging off when I got it & there were no error codes showing for that. I put new vacuum lines on it & it seemed to get progressively faster. I think it takes time for the adaptives to learn changes if it works like the M54s DME.
I assume you have checked all your vacuum lines & anything else obvious?
Sorry can’t help with what app to use but anything that can read boost really.
I have INPA but its only the cable for the older M54, I have got a hand held reader that shows live data that will work. That can show readouts on a graph, it can be easier than trying to look at readouts when flooring it!

[Sohaib-ijiiv]

Luckyone said:

It is a lot easier to get a manual to spin the wheels as you have all the momentum of the flywheel to suddenly release but still I’d have thought a 335i auto still should be able to spin them really. I’m interested to see if mine will now!

I haven’t looked into the workings of the N54 very much yet. I would imagine the DME can see the boost pressure of each turbo, would make like much easier for you if it can. Assuming it has got a smaller turbo for lower RPMs it sounds like its not getting to pressure for some reason (possibly the rattle) If you can see the pressure of each turbo separately it should obvious if one isn’t making good pressure.
The DME may only be able to see a single MAP sensor that would make it harder.
Mine had a vacuum line hanging off when I got it & there were no error codes showing for that. I put new vacuum lines on it & it seemed to get progressively faster. I think it takes time for the adaptives to learn changes if it works like the M54s DME.
I assume you have checked all your vacuum lines & anything else obvious?
Sorry can’t help with what app to use but anything that can read boost really.
I have INPA but its only the cable for the older M54, I have got a hand held reader that shows live data that will work. That can show readouts on a graph, it can be easier than trying to look at readouts when flooring it!

Well I dropped the car off to BMW on Saturday and they phoned back to say they have tested the turbos and there is no issue there, all in working order but they agreed there is a massive flat spot below 3k.

They will be checking the injectors next and updating me in due course.

[Sohaib-ijiiv]

Right on cue they called, can't detect anything wrong with the injectors either.

I guess it points towards the intakes being coked up then.

[PixelpeepZ4]

Sohaib-ijiiv said:

I guess it points towards the intakes being coked up then.

just how i like my women..

[Rod200SX]

Chances are a walnut blast will make a fair difference. Mine was done at 84k and it was absolutely minging!

If you've got MHD you can purchase the data logging license and create a log with various peramiters. Could be one of the fuel pumps, slight misfire etc.

I'd ideally go to a specialist.

[Dizeee]

What exactly does walnut blasting achieve and when is best to do it?

I guess not on a 40k mile, 3.5 year old car that has had 3 oil changes since new and fresh plugs and coil pack last year?

[Zener]

They all succumb to the dreaded coke/gunge, its a DI trade off

[Dizeee]

What part of the engine is that? That looks awful. Is that around 80k miles?

[Rod200SX]

Dizeee said:

What part of the engine is that? That looks awful. Is that around 80k miles?

Not the OP of that pic but that's in the intake/head, just past the inlet manifold.

Mine was around 84k when it gone done and it was worse than that. Direct injection is great but this is an unfortunate by-product.

[Dizeee]

What sort of mileage would it be beneficial to carry out then... on a non standard B58 engine....

[Rod200SX]

I haven't seen any issues on the B58 yet to be honest. If you're handy with a spanner you should be able to have a nosey yourself if you're bored. Unsure of how everything is packed on the B58 but on the N54 it's just a case of removing the charge pipe, the inlet manifold and you can inspect in the ports.

Never a golden rule for mileage but some people get it done every 30k, some folk way beyond that etc. There'll be a large amount of cars that have never had it done.

[Luckyone]

Sohaib-ijiiv said:

Secondly I have never ever managed to break traction with DTC completely off, launching it in 1st (its the zf auto) it just lazily comes to life and then takes off as I would expect around 2.5krpm onwards. This was on a private road and even brake boosting it couldnt break traction. I don't think its due to me having amazing tyres either. My friend in a 320i managed to break traction with minimal effort.

I just got mine back on the road & it managed to spin the wheels without really trying much. It’s a warm sunny day, the tyres are 275s & only a few months old too.

You said you had the DCT completely off so I assume you had pressed the button for over 3 seconds? A quick press puts in some extreme over the top mode stop the wheels spinning on snow or mud mode. Confusing as in the E39 a quick press turns it off!

I didn’t even put it in sport or manual mode just briefly floored it when pulling out with the DCT properly off, I wasn’t really trying, I think on a private road it should be able to really smoke the tyres.

I’ve got a big sandblaster so I was thinking of doing the wallnut blasting myself some time. The amount of muck you find in there apparently varies a lot, maybe you have lots. Unfortunately it’s not a quick job to have a look!

I don’t think its something BMW offer.