Hanging off the bike on public roads..

[robinh73]

Berz said:

Renn Sport said:

robinh73 said:

I felt sure I was going to pull this one off at Oliver's Mount in the Spring Cup. Didn't quite go to plan!

That's a cool picture. I have to say.

Managed to fix it by June though

Thinking back, it must have been the June meeting and looking at that other photo, it must have been June, because the tall TT screen got done in, the side was scuffed and the tail unit had to be taped together to race on the Sunday. Cheers for posting the other photo, hadn't seen that one before.

[Renn Sport]

Berz said:

Renn Sport said:

robinh73 said:

I felt sure I was going to pull this one off at Oliver's Mount in the Spring Cup. Didn't quite go to plan!

That's a cool picture. I have to say.

Managed to fix it by June though

Good for you. Every time a bike goes down it means more expense which can be a pain.





I hang off a bit but not at elbow down levels. I never do this on the road and there doesn't seem any point.

If anyone wants a 177bhp R1 with Bazazz.. I know one that's for sale.

[Renn Sport]

graeme4130 said:

I spoke with Simon Crafer about it as he sits really upright and doesn't hang off that much, and he said that being comfortably in control of your bike can have a better effect than trying to be 3 foot off the side of the bike.
It's only when you get to the absolute top of your game that being right at the edge of being too far off becomes important, and how far off the bike that it really depends on the bike and the riding style.
Personally, I like being quite low as it's not as far to fall when the front wheel washes

I figured that if the front goes Im pretty much on the floor anyway, so only have a slide to contend with rather than an impact

Edited by graeme4130 on Wednesday 22 February 16:51

You are pretty much elbow down virtually. Looks like Bradley Smith. Nice.

[graeme4130]

Renn Sport said:

graeme4130 said:

I spoke with Simon Crafer about it as he sits really upright and doesn't hang off that much, and he said that being comfortably in control of your bike can have a better effect than trying to be 3 foot off the side of the bike.
It's only when you get to the absolute top of your game that being right at the edge of being too far off becomes important, and how far off the bike that it really depends on the bike and the riding style.
Personally, I like being quite low as it's not as far to fall when the front wheel washes

I figured that if the front goes Im pretty much on the floor anyway, so only have a slide to contend with rather than an impact

Edited by graeme4130 on Wednesday 22 February 16:51

You are pretty much elbow down virtually. Looks like Bradley Smith. Nice.

It's the smith helmet. I'm like him, just slower, fatter and not quite as bald
I can also confirm that replacement Spidi elbow sliders are more expensive than knee sliders, so I'll not be putting that down too often if I can help it

Edited by graeme4130 on Thursday 23 February 16:38

[bennyboysvuk]

I thought I'd resurrect this thread as I realised another benefit to hanging off today. Less than a mile into my journey, a BMW GS came past me in traffic and we headed up to a large quick roundabout. I followed him through the traffic and we rounded the large roundabout at the same speed. He looked pretty committed and quite quick and the GS was soaking up the various bumps on the roundabout beautifully and looking to be working quite hard. The guy was sat bolt upright too and I suspect had warm tyres and a warm bike.

My perspective was that my tyres had been warming from the 4 degrees outside temperature in a straight line only for about a mile and I'd have no confidence throwing it in on its ear like GS man did, so I hung off my bike and cornered at the same rate with my bike substantially less banked over than the GS.

So there's another benefit to hanging off - in cold conditions with cold tyre-edges you can corner on the warmer bit of the tyre.

[moanthebairns]

bennyboysvuk said:

I thought I'd resurrect this thread as I realised another benefit to hanging off today. Less than a mile into my journey, a BMW GS came past me in traffic and we headed up to a large quick roundabout. I followed him through the traffic and we rounded the large roundabout at the same speed. He looked pretty committed and quite quick and the GS was soaking up the various bumps on the roundabout beautifully and looking to be working quite hard. The guy was sat bolt upright too and I suspect had warm tyres and a warm bike.

My perspective was that my tyres had been warming from the 4 degrees outside temperature in a straight line only for about a mile and I'd have no confidence throwing it in on its ear like GS man did, so I hung off my bike and cornered at the same rate with my bike substantially less banked over than the GS.

So there's another benefit to hanging off - in cold conditions with cold tyre-edges you can corner on the warmer bit of the tyre.

Whatever makes you feel better about getting your arse handed to you by a GS rider....

[Darkslider]

bennyboysvuk said:

I thought I'd resurrect this thread as I realised another benefit to hanging off today. Less than a mile into my journey, a BMW GS came past me in traffic and we headed up to a large quick roundabout. I followed him through the traffic and we rounded the large roundabout at the same speed. He looked pretty committed and quite quick and the GS was soaking up the various bumps on the roundabout beautifully and looking to be working quite hard. The guy was sat bolt upright too and I suspect had warm tyres and a warm bike.

My perspective was that my tyres had been warming from the 4 degrees outside temperature in a straight line only for about a mile and I'd have no confidence throwing it in on its ear like GS man did, so I hung off my bike and cornered at the same rate with my bike substantially less banked over than the GS.

So there's another benefit to hanging off - in cold conditions with cold tyre-edges you can corner on the warmer bit of the tyre.

You've just explained the entire reasoning behind hanging off the bike that I think many people are struggling to grasp. By moving your weight lower and further to the inside of the corner, you cornered at the same speed as the gs rider with the bike leaning less, therefore you were further away from the limits of your tyres grip and had a larger safety margin than him.

Leaning off the bike doesn't make you faster, it makes you safer. Anyone regaling tales of fat boys getting schooled by bolt upright riders is missing the point, that bolt upright rider may have been using 100% of his available grip whereas the monkey hanging off doing the same speed is only using 75%.

[fergus]

robinh73 said:

Gavia said:

robinh73 said:

I felt sure I was going to pull this one off at Oliver's Mount in the Spring Cup. Didn't quite go to plan!

You need to learn to countersteer

Cue a huge argument

I tried countersteering, backing it in and even counting to ten, but it still did me no good. Could have been worse, I could have ended up going through the cafe at the end of the back straight.

I bet you backed one out when you thought about where you could have landed......

[bennyboysvuk]

moanthebairns said:

Whatever makes you feel better about getting your arse handed to you by a GS rider....

I did consider that the GS rider must have been thinking "WTF is this plum doing".

[black-k1]

Darkslider said:

bennyboysvuk said:

I thought I'd resurrect this thread as I realised another benefit to hanging off today. Less than a mile into my journey, a BMW GS came past me in traffic and we headed up to a large quick roundabout. I followed him through the traffic and we rounded the large roundabout at the same speed. He looked pretty committed and quite quick and the GS was soaking up the various bumps on the roundabout beautifully and looking to be working quite hard. The guy was sat bolt upright too and I suspect had warm tyres and a warm bike.

My perspective was that my tyres had been warming from the 4 degrees outside temperature in a straight line only for about a mile and I'd have no confidence throwing it in on its ear like GS man did, so I hung off my bike and cornered at the same rate with my bike substantially less banked over than the GS.

So there's another benefit to hanging off - in cold conditions with cold tyre-edges you can corner on the warmer bit of the tyre.

You've just explained the entire reasoning behind hanging off the bike that I think many people are struggling to grasp. By moving your weight lower and further to the inside of the corner, you cornered at the same speed as the gs rider with the bike leaning less, therefore you were further away from the limits of your tyres grip and had a larger safety margin than him.

Leaning off the bike doesn't make you faster, it makes you safer. Anyone regaling tales of fat boys getting schooled by bolt upright riders is missing the point, that bolt upright rider may have been using 100% of his available grip whereas the monkey hanging off doing the same speed is only using 75%.

You are making the assumption that the grip from the tyre/road is more because the bike is "more upright". That's not necessarily the case.

Firstly, on tyres with different compounds across the tyre give more relative grip closer to the edge, so leaning further, assuming you don't go too far, gives more grip.

Secondly, the lateral force on the tyres is related to the rate of turn of the bike and the weight of the bike/rider. These are the same whether you're bolt upright or hanging off.

There is a huge amount more to consider (outside of the fact you look a real dick with your arse hung off the bike at the local roundabout) but in road conditions, there is likely little to no safety advantage to hanging off and probably a greater safety negative due to not being in the right position to both maintain good observation and to make quick changes in direction should they be required.

[graeme4130]

moanthebairns said:

bennyboysvuk said:

I thought I'd resurrect this thread as I realised another benefit to hanging off today. Less than a mile into my journey, a BMW GS came past me in traffic and we headed up to a large quick roundabout. I followed him through the traffic and we rounded the large roundabout at the same speed. He looked pretty committed and quite quick and the GS was soaking up the various bumps on the roundabout beautifully and looking to be working quite hard. The guy was sat bolt upright too and I suspect had warm tyres and a warm bike.

My perspective was that my tyres had been warming from the 4 degrees outside temperature in a straight line only for about a mile and I'd have no confidence throwing it in on its ear like GS man did, so I hung off my bike and cornered at the same rate with my bike substantially less banked over than the GS.

So there's another benefit to hanging off - in cold conditions with cold tyre-edges you can corner on the warmer bit of the tyre.

Whatever makes you feel better about getting your arse handed to you by a GS rider....

haha, with Panniers and a Polite vest ?

[bennyboysvuk]

black-k1 said:

Darkslider said:

bennyboysvuk said:

I thought I'd resurrect this thread as I realised another benefit to hanging off today. Less than a mile into my journey, a BMW GS came past me in traffic and we headed up to a large quick roundabout. I followed him through the traffic and we rounded the large roundabout at the same speed. He looked pretty committed and quite quick and the GS was soaking up the various bumps on the roundabout beautifully and looking to be working quite hard. The guy was sat bolt upright too and I suspect had warm tyres and a warm bike.

My perspective was that my tyres had been warming from the 4 degrees outside temperature in a straight line only for about a mile and I'd have no confidence throwing it in on its ear like GS man did, so I hung off my bike and cornered at the same rate with my bike substantially less banked over than the GS.

So there's another benefit to hanging off - in cold conditions with cold tyre-edges you can corner on the warmer bit of the tyre.

You've just explained the entire reasoning behind hanging off the bike that I think many people are struggling to grasp. By moving your weight lower and further to the inside of the corner, you cornered at the same speed as the gs rider with the bike leaning less, therefore you were further away from the limits of your tyres grip and had a larger safety margin than him.

Leaning off the bike doesn't make you faster, it makes you safer. Anyone regaling tales of fat boys getting schooled by bolt upright riders is missing the point, that bolt upright rider may have been using 100% of his available grip whereas the monkey hanging off doing the same speed is only using 75%.

You are making the assumption that the grip from the tyre/road is more because the bike is "more upright". That's not necessarily the case.

Firstly, on tyres with different compounds across the tyre give more relative grip closer to the edge, so leaning further, assuming you don't go too far, gives more grip.

Secondly, the lateral force on the tyres is related to the rate of turn of the bike and the weight of the bike/rider. These are the same whether you're bolt upright or hanging off.

There is a huge amount more to consider (outside of the fact you look a real dick with your arse hung off the bike at the local roundabout) but in road conditions, there is likely little to no safety advantage to hanging off and probably a greater safety negative due to not being in the right position to both maintain good observation and to make quick changes in direction should they be required.

On the flip side, I know for a fact that anything further than the centre third of my tyres was stone cold. The feel of the bike and experience tells me there's more grip in that warm centre section than in the stone cold outside edges, even if it is a DC PR4. Not only that, but my footpegs were taking a bit of my weight rather than my backside, so given any tyre slip, I'm more mobile to deal with it than GS man fully leant over.

Regarding observation. The GS guy, sat fully upright and leant over quite far was a very tall bit of kit and although his tyres were in the left tyre track of the inside lane, his head was still almost hitting the overhanging bushes on the roundabout. Whereas I was hanging off with the bike not leaning nearly as far over, which meant that my head was roughly in the centre of my lane.

But aside from all that, it was great to watch a GS going for it, suspension compressing and settling etc.

[moanthebairns]

bennyboysvuk said:

black-k1 said:

Darkslider said:

bennyboysvuk said:

I thought I'd resurrect this thread as I realised another benefit to hanging off today. Less than a mile into my journey, a BMW GS came past me in traffic and we headed up to a large quick roundabout. I followed him through the traffic and we rounded the large roundabout at the same speed. He looked pretty committed and quite quick and the GS was soaking up the various bumps on the roundabout beautifully and looking to be working quite hard. The guy was sat bolt upright too and I suspect had warm tyres and a warm bike.

My perspective was that my tyres had been warming from the 4 degrees outside temperature in a straight line only for about a mile and I'd have no confidence throwing it in on its ear like GS man did, so I hung off my bike and cornered at the same rate with my bike substantially less banked over than the GS.

So there's another benefit to hanging off - in cold conditions with cold tyre-edges you can corner on the warmer bit of the tyre.

You've just explained the entire reasoning behind hanging off the bike that I think many people are struggling to grasp. By moving your weight lower and further to the inside of the corner, you cornered at the same speed as the gs rider with the bike leaning less, therefore you were further away from the limits of your tyres grip and had a larger safety margin than him.

Leaning off the bike doesn't make you faster, it makes you safer. Anyone regaling tales of fat boys getting schooled by bolt upright riders is missing the point, that bolt upright rider may have been using 100% of his available grip whereas the monkey hanging off doing the same speed is only using 75%.

You are making the assumption that the grip from the tyre/road is more because the bike is "more upright". That's not necessarily the case.

Firstly, on tyres with different compounds across the tyre give more relative grip closer to the edge, so leaning further, assuming you don't go too far, gives more grip.

Secondly, the lateral force on the tyres is related to the rate of turn of the bike and the weight of the bike/rider. These are the same whether you're bolt upright or hanging off.

There is a huge amount more to consider (outside of the fact you look a real dick with your arse hung off the bike at the local roundabout) but in road conditions, there is likely little to no safety advantage to hanging off and probably a greater safety negative due to not being in the right position to both maintain good observation and to make quick changes in direction should they be required.

On the flip side, I know for a fact that anything further than the centre third of my tyres was stone cold. The feel of the bike and experience tells me there's more grip in that warm centre section than in the stone cold outside edges, even if it is a DC PR4. Not only that, but my footpegs were taking a bit of my weight rather than my backside, so given any tyre slip, I'm more mobile to deal with it than GS man fully leant over.

Regarding observation. The GS guy, sat fully upright and leant over quite far was a very tall bit of kit and although his tyres were in the left tyre track of the inside lane, his head was still almost hitting the overhanging bushes on the roundabout. Whereas I was hanging off with the bike not leaning nearly as far over, which meant that my head was roughly in the centre of my lane.

But aside from all that, it was great to watch a GS going for it, suspension compressing and settling etc.

wtf.... I am sorry to sound harsh and i'm going to sound like a fking dick but come on to fk.

You sound like your trying to follow Billy Mcconnell through craner curves, its a GS on a roundabout.

[Steve Bass]

Berz said:

Renn Sport said:

robinh73 said:

I felt sure I was going to pull this one off at Oliver's Mount in the Spring Cup. Didn't quite go to plan!

That's a cool picture. I have to say.

Managed to fix it by June though

Yeah, that's the way.. Stop messing with those pesky left handers!! Problem........Solved!

[Prof Prolapse]

moanthebairns said:

wtf.... I am sorry to sound harsh and i'm going to sound like a fking dick but come on to fk.

You sound like your trying to follow Billy Mcconnell through craner curves, its a GS on a roundabout.

I don't see any reason why a GS travelling at 40mph couldn't keep up with any sportsbike travelling at 40mph.

It's amazing how pride seems to take a kicking when it does though!

[Birky_41]

graeme4130 said:

haha, with Panniers and a Polite vest ?

I've just bought one of these to go Germany next week as Im told I need one for France...mines custom made and the wording is slightly changed though

[Birky_41]

Prof Prolapse said:

I don't see any reason why a GS travelling at 40mph couldn't keep up with any sportsbike travelling at 40mph.

It's amazing how pride seems to take a kicking when it does though!

A mate rode Snett on a Multistrada the other week with a bunch of us in fast group. Bikes on stock road tyres and he ruined alot of 'trackday' bikes. Some of these big ol modern bikes are alot quicker than people realise

https://youtu.be/dyfrF8NJDjg

It really did buck and wobble every bit as much as the video shows

[anonymous-user]

Prof Prolapse said:

moanthebairns said:

wtf.... I am sorry to sound harsh and i'm going to sound like a fking dick but come on to fk.

You sound like your trying to follow Billy Mcconnell through craner curves, its a GS on a roundabout.

I don't see any reason why a GS travelling at 40mph couldn't keep up with any sportsbike travelling at 40mph.

It's amazing how pride seems to take a kicking when it does though!

Haha. I went on a trip with my mates all on sportsbikes, my R1 was still in track trim so i took the commuter bike (CB500x). Top box, hand muffs and 48bhp of raw power. Still kept up

[Steve Bass]

yammyfan said:

Haha. I went on a trip with my mates all on sportsbikes, my R1 was still in track trim so i took the commuter bike (CB500x). Top box, hand muffs and 48bhp of raw power. Still kept up

Your mates... they're ghey

[bogie]

black-k1 said:

Darkslider said:

bennyboysvuk said:

I thought I'd resurrect this thread as I realised another benefit to hanging off today. Less than a mile into my journey, a BMW GS came past me in traffic and we headed up to a large quick roundabout. I followed him through the traffic and we rounded the large roundabout at the same speed. He looked pretty committed and quite quick and the GS was soaking up the various bumps on the roundabout beautifully and looking to be working quite hard. The guy was sat bolt upright too and I suspect had warm tyres and a warm bike.

My perspective was that my tyres had been warming from the 4 degrees outside temperature in a straight line only for about a mile and I'd have no confidence throwing it in on its ear like GS man did, so I hung off my bike and cornered at the same rate with my bike substantially less banked over than the GS.

So there's another benefit to hanging off - in cold conditions with cold tyre-edges you can corner on the warmer bit of the tyre.

You've just explained the entire reasoning behind hanging off the bike that I think many people are struggling to grasp. By moving your weight lower and further to the inside of the corner, you cornered at the same speed as the gs rider with the bike leaning less, therefore you were further away from the limits of your tyres grip and had a larger safety margin than him.

Leaning off the bike doesn't make you faster, it makes you safer. Anyone regaling tales of fat boys getting schooled by bolt upright riders is missing the point, that bolt upright rider may have been using 100% of his available grip whereas the monkey hanging off doing the same speed is only using 75%.

You are making the assumption that the grip from the tyre/road is more because the bike is "more upright". That's not necessarily the case.

Firstly, on tyres with different compounds across the tyre give more relative grip closer to the edge, so leaning further, assuming you don't go too far, gives more grip.

Secondly, the lateral force on the tyres is related to the rate of turn of the bike and the weight of the bike/rider. These are the same whether you're bolt upright or hanging off.

There is a huge amount more to consider (outside of the fact you look a real dick with your arse hung off the bike at the local roundabout) but in road conditions, there is likely little to no safety advantage to hanging off and probably a greater safety negative due to not being in the right position to both maintain good observation and to make quick changes in direction should they be required.

bike tyres have come on a long way in the last 10 years and the contact patch on a modern tyre is bigger at lean and usually a softer compound. We really have got it good these days