Nurburgring 2017

[308mate]

obscene said:

308mate said:

This is my favourite 'Ring bike compilation, mainly for this one corner that catches so many people out, plus fairly innocuous crashes and some nice wheelies.

Pay special attention at 11:30 and 11:51

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcwto39ZUTo

Good watch that, has put me off the ring! And the scooby at 11:51. Jesus.

I wouldn't tell anyone not to go as I can totally understand the extent to which it's perceived as a rite of passage. But I do think people should really be aware of the risks and research the best way to enjoy it, which is the idea of this thread. That's all anyone can ask.

Go, keep your eyes open and tick it off the list. I think it would be somewhat hypocritical to be a Sunday morning warrior or big city commuter and then not do the Ring because its too risky. I could generate a new video every week just with commute near misses. Some people have made a decent wedge off just that.

[stuno1]

I went last year in my Evora and would not do it on a bike. The track was open for half a day and after 30 minutes the track was closed due to 2 accidents. There were a mix of cars but mainly people's sheds including a car set up purely for drift work. On a full day I can only imagine what it's like. You can certainly do it but need to take it easy, pay attention to what is going on around you and let people past so they don't try anything foolish. If you can do it as part of a track day then all good.

[moto_traxport]

Went there fairly frequently for 10 years (early 90's to early noughties) and can only echo CAPPO's post 3rd from the top - you've missed the boat.

I was generally under 8 mins bridge to gantry on sports touring stuff and even then local boys in their retro stuff (still Brembo's, OZ's, KW's, splitters, cage, silly motor underneath the hand painted with a 4" brush exterior) could still give a fright in certain sections.

Haven't been for a dozen years following the deaths of a few people I knew.

308mate said:

This is my favourite 'Ring bike compilation, mainly for this one corner that catches so many people out, plus fairly innocuous crashes and some nice wheelies.

Pay special attention at 11:30 and 11:51

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcwto39ZUTo

I've done 4 courses there (great fun following another bike 4 foot off his back wheel mostly about 70 to 80mph, never touching the brakes and away from the cars dropping slippy stuff) and on one whilst learning the course bit by bit Fritz the instructor (great name) said EVERY corner is faster than it looks EXCEPT this particular one - so beware Adenauer Forst if you go. It's after the big dip (Foxhole) reasonably early on.

Edit - Typing that reminded me one course was in monsoon conditions & muddy rivers across the track and he issued a warning about a corner after the first complex (Kallenhard?) notorious about being slippy in the wet due to sap from the trees / polished tarmac / aliens "if we go through this at 60kmh both tyres will slide, the same happens at 80kms so we go through at 80kms!". I still chuckle to this day about that logic.

[CAPP0]

moto_traxport said:

so beware Adenauer Forst if you go.

It's the series of bends at the start of 308's video. Looks like L/R but it's actually L/R/L/R and the second L tightens up, which is why they're all running over the grass! Very difficult to get right even when you've had the sector coned off and have walked it and visualised all the turn-in points & apexes.

ETA: starts at about 2:55 in this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbr23qEiBzo

Edited by CAPP0 on Friday 6th January 18:53

[moto_traxport]

CAPP0 said:

moto_traxport said:

so beware Adenauer Forst if you go.

It's the series of bends at the start of 308's video. Looks like L/R but it's actually L/R/L/R and the second L tightens up, which is why they're all running over the grass! Very difficult to get right even when you've had the sector coned off and have walked it and visualised all the turn-in points & apexes.

ETA: starts at about 2:55 in this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbr23qEiBzo

Edited by CAPP0 on Friday 6th January 18:53

At least most of crashes there are fairly innocuous.

My own bit of video whoring is a rubbish lap ruined by a couple of sets of roadworks and knowing I'm going to run out of fuel (which I do). Filmed by Joerund who was killed there - he is featured on a Nürburgring website trying to persuade the car boys taking sheds there to act responsibly. RIP the mad Norwegian eejit!

https://youtu.be/SJgDZW7y2nE

[308mate]

moto_traxport said:

Went there fairly frequently for 10 years (early 90's to early noughties) and can only echo CAPPO's post 3rd from the top - you've missed the boat.

I was generally under 8 mins bridge to gantry on sports touring stuff and even then local boys in their retro stuff (still Brembo's, OZ's, KW's, splitters, cage, silly motor underneath the hand painted with a 4" brush exterior) could still give a fright in certain sections.

Haven't been for a dozen years following the deaths of a few people I knew.

308mate said:

This is my favourite 'Ring bike compilation, mainly for this one corner that catches so many people out, plus fairly innocuous crashes and some nice wheelies.

Pay special attention at 11:30 and 11:51

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcwto39ZUTo

I've done 4 courses there (great fun following another bike 4 foot off his back wheel mostly about 70 to 80mph, never touching the brakes and away from the cars dropping slippy stuff) and on one whilst learning the course bit by bit Fritz the instructor (great name) said EVERY corner is faster than it looks EXCEPT this particular one - so beware Adenauer Forst if you go. It's after the big dip (Foxhole) reasonably early on.

Edit - Typing that reminded me one course was in monsoon conditions & muddy rivers across the track and he issued a warning about a corner after the first complex (Kallenhard?) notorious about being slippy in the wet due to sap from the trees / polished tarmac / aliens "if we go through this at 60kmh both tyres will slide, the same happens at 80kms so we go through at 80kms!". I still chuckle to this day about that logic.

I rolled up on a whim on my old 5VY in about 2008 and it was busier than I thought it would be. Did two laps which included 2 or 3 of fastest, closest fly-bys by cars I've ever experienced (and I was under the impression I was going quick) and then parked it. Job done. Great place but I don't have the time, money or skillz to spend ages there perfecting it for the sake of it. Especially when I have Brand Hatch 45mins away. I think you've got to go at least once though and as said, the surrounding roads are almost as good.

[CaptainSlow]

I see the GP circuit is sometimes open for tourist laps, is this safer for bikers if mixed groups?

[Prof Prolapse]

This is me with Andy carlile receiving some tuition, I believe he still holds the record lap on a bike, 7'10" on his old R1. A humble bloke who does tuition on bikes too. I don't recall him advocating mixing bikes and cars.

[Gavia]

308mate said:

This is my favourite 'Ring bike compilation, mainly for this one corner that catches so many people out, plus fairly innocuous crashes and some nice wheelies.

Pay special attention at 11:30 and 11:51

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcwto39ZUTo

There's some impressively crap riding in that video, a lot of it on bikes with yellow numberplates. Sod sharing the track with cars though, not a chance I'd ride that.

[moto_traxport]

Prof Prolapse said:

This is me with Andy carlile receiving some tuition, I believe he still holds the record lap on a bike, 7'10" on his old R1. A humble bloke who does tuition on bikes too. I don't recall him advocating mixing bikes and cars.

Unable to pass judgment on line or speed from that but sunglasses = slightly rubbish.

[doogalman]

I instruct at the Ring on trackdays and Tourist sessions(Albeit in cars) but am a biker at heart that has been riding the ring since 1998. Lots of usefull advice has already been offered.
If you are interested in somewhere to stay my wife and I have guest accomodation in our house 10 miles south of the track. Ping me a message if you want more info.

[Yipper]

To give it some statistical context:

• Brazil currently has a vehicle death rate of ~55 fatalities per billion vehicle-km.
• USA currently has a vehicle death rate of ~7 fatalities per billion vehicle-km.
• Nurburgring currently has a vehicle death rate of ~30 fatalities per billion vehicle-km.

In other words, the Nurb is safer than taking a roadtrip in Brazil.

[Gavia]

Yipper said:

To give it some statistical context:

• Brazil currently has a vehicle death rate of ~55 fatalities per billion vehicle-km.
• USA currently has a vehicle death rate of ~7 fatalities per billion vehicle-km.
• Nurburgring currently has a vehicle death rate of ~30 fatalities per billion vehicle-km.

In other words, the Nurb is safer than taking a roadtrip in Brazil.

Tomadd a slightly more relevant statistic, the U.K. is at 3.6, so the Nurburgring is c10 times more lethal. If no idea what UK trackdays (or U.K. Organised Euro TDs) run at, but I'm guessing it's a lot below 30 per billion Kms.

[CAPP0]

Yipper said:

To give it some statistical context:

• Brazil currently has a vehicle death rate of ~55 fatalities per billion vehicle-km.
• USA currently has a vehicle death rate of ~7 fatalities per billion vehicle-km.
• Nurburgring currently has a vehicle death rate of ~30 fatalities per billion vehicle-km.

In other words, the Nurb is safer than taking a roadtrip in Brazil.

I don't know whether it's true or apocryphal, but it's said that the Nurburgring death rate only includes those who expire on the tarmac. Once you're off the track, by ambulance or chopper, if you die then it isn't counted.

[308mate]

CAPP0 said:

Yipper said:

To give it some statistical context:

• Brazil currently has a vehicle death rate of ~55 fatalities per billion vehicle-km.
• USA currently has a vehicle death rate of ~7 fatalities per billion vehicle-km.
• Nurburgring currently has a vehicle death rate of ~30 fatalities per billion vehicle-km.

In other words, the Nurb is safer than taking a roadtrip in Brazil.

I don't know whether it's true or apocryphal, but it's said that the Nurburgring death rate only includes those who expire on the tarmac. Once you're off the track, by ambulance or chopper, if you die then it isn't counted.

Y'see to me, anywhere where that distinction is actually up for discussion, is a place you need to have ridden.

It's like those signs on roads that warn you of a high death rate. Great! That's how I know I'm on the right road!

[Birky_41]

doogalman said:

I instruct at the Ring on trackdays and Tourist sessions(Albeit in cars) but am a biker at heart that has been riding the ring since 1998. Lots of usefull advice has already been offered.
If you are interested in somewhere to stay my wife and I have guest accomodation in our house 10 miles south of the track. Ping me a message if you want more info.

Thats really appreciated and I will do

[Birky_41]

Some great help here guys (and a few scary bits too)

[Prof Prolapse]

moto_traxport said:

Unable to pass judgment on line or speed from that but sunglasses = slightly rubbish.

I loved those glasses, mostly because everyone hated them.

[John D.]

naetype said:

I think you'll find Armco costs are not that stratospheric in the main, particularly for a bike.

In that case, count me in!

[CAPP0]

John D. said:

naetype said:

I think you'll find Armco costs are not that stratospheric in the main, particularly for a bike.

In that case, count me in!

What often happens is, you bend a bit of Armco and think, hmm, that's not too bad, but when they come along to estimate, they run a straight-line view along it and you'd be surprised how many more sections will be bent.

The one I clearly remember was a couple of young Brits mucking about in the wet in an old Skyline. They were drifting/skidding on purpose, and slid sideways into the Armco at <10mph (we were watching, around Hatzenbach, far too wet (read:slippery) for bikes). The guys got out of the car grinning and playing to the crowd but went strangely quiet when the marshalls turned up. Caught up with them later in the Grunholle and they showed us the Armco bill: 3500 Euro. And you have to pay on the spot, there's none of this "send me a bill, I'll fk off back to Blighty in the meantime" malarkey.