5 bike thefts overnight in Acid attacks.
Discussion
Does anyone remember there was an incident a few weeks ago where delivery drivers beat up a couple of moped thieves? I could be wrong but it's very likely this wasn't just random, more like the scrotes and their mates decided to do a payback 'for respek, innit' as all victims appear to be delivery drivers if reports are to be believed.
As you were, back to arguing about politics and personal insults.
As you were, back to arguing about politics and personal insults.
Edited by cpl_payne on Friday 14th July 13:47
hyphen said:
creampuff said:
This does not happen in other developed western nations. It's unique to the UK.
A quick look and it appears that it does: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/08/23/queens-acid...
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/woma...
cpl_payne said:
Does anyone remember there was an incident a few weeks ago where delivery drivers beat up a couple of moped thieves? I could be wrong but it's very likely this wasn't just random, more like the scrotes and their mates decided to do a payback 'for respek, innit' as all victims appear to be delivery drivers if reports are to be believed.
As you were, back to arguing about politics and personal insults.
In a strange way, I hope you're right.As you were, back to arguing about politics and personal insults.
Edited by cpl_payne on Friday 14th July 13:47
hyphen said:
A quick look and it appears that it does:
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/08/23/queens-acid...
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/woma...
I wasn't referring to acid attacks, I was referring to the expectation (which is completely justified) among petty criminal thug bike theives that they can steal stuff and nothing will be done about it. http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/08/23/queens-acid...
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/woma...
cpl_payne said:
Does anyone remember there was an incident a few weeks ago where delivery drivers beat up a couple of moped thieves? I could be wrong but it's very likely this wasn't just random, more like the scrotes and their mates decided to do a payback 'for respek, innit' as all victims appear to be delivery drivers if reports are to be believed.
As you were, back to arguing about politics and personal insults.
So it's the delivery drivers' fault?As you were, back to arguing about politics and personal insults.
Edited by cpl_payne on Friday 14th July 13:47
Sorted then, let's all let the scooter scrotes do what they like in case they get upset and throw acid in our faces.
Renn Sport said:
f
k me your a balanced individual! Thanks for sharing your insight. You seem new here... I can tell. Its like 6th sense.
I loved your last sentence. I can actually imagine you frothing from the mouth! Keep taking the pills and lie down. Let us grown ups discuss and you chip in when you feel you can actually contribute.
Actually perhaps its best you don't. Just keep leafing through the Sun. Let us know when you have graduated to the Mail?
Oh grow up you pathetic bleeding heart liberal.k me your a balanced individual! Thanks for sharing your insight. You seem new here... I can tell. Its like 6th sense.I loved your last sentence. I can actually imagine you frothing from the mouth! Keep taking the pills and lie down. Let us grown ups discuss and you chip in when you feel you can actually contribute.
Actually perhaps its best you don't. Just keep leafing through the Sun. Let us know when you have graduated to the Mail?
People's lives are getting ruined by the ridiculous PC nature of society these days. Totally different subject but of the same vein: Rotherham rapists got away with it for years and years because of dumb f
k liberal apologists suggesting that you can't attempt to prosecute VILE behaviour for fear of alienating people.What the f
k nation/world do we live in? You leftist twonks have very little answer other than insults or to suggest that someone who's sick to death of the minority getting off scot free because of 'sins of the past' is a daily mail reader. How original.Now go and read up about Diane Abbott and her past, then come back here when you know what you're talking about.
Oh, and thanks for your wonderfully insightful and productive post in retort.. always a pleasure. Maybe work on your ability to distinguish between "your" and "you're" too.
Edited by bgunn on Friday 14th July 14:15
Mr. White said:
cpl_payne said:
Does anyone remember there was an incident a few weeks ago where delivery drivers beat up a couple of moped thieves? I could be wrong but it's very likely this wasn't just random, more like the scrotes and their mates decided to do a payback 'for respek, innit' as all victims appear to be delivery drivers if reports are to be believed.
As you were, back to arguing about politics and personal insults.
So it's the delivery drivers' fault?As you were, back to arguing about politics and personal insults.
Edited by cpl_payne on Friday 14th July 13:47
cpl_payne said:
Mr. White said:
cpl_payne said:
Does anyone remember there was an incident a few weeks ago where delivery drivers beat up a couple of moped thieves? I could be wrong but it's very likely this wasn't just random, more like the scrotes and their mates decided to do a payback 'for respek, innit' as all victims appear to be delivery drivers if reports are to be believed.
As you were, back to arguing about politics and personal insults.
So it's the delivery drivers' fault?As you were, back to arguing about politics and personal insults.
Edited by cpl_payne on Friday 14th July 13:47
Don't recall going on a frothing at the mouth strawman tirade either.
What exactly is your point about retribution then, if not to imply some blame on the delivery drivers?
It also ignores that acid attacks are becoming commonplace; can't put them all down to retribution.
Mr. White said:
Love the irony of your comment about personal insults, only to accuse me of going full retard.
Don't recall going on a frothing at the mouth strawman tirade either.
What exactly is your point about retribution then, if not to imply some blame on the delivery drivers?
It also ignores that acid attacks are becoming commonplace; can't put them all down to retribution.
I don't read the earlier post as there being any blame assigned to the delivery drivers. I read it as petty thugs don't like being shown up for the pussies that they are by a bunch of Brazillian delivery riders so said petty thugs go get some acid and attack some delivery drivers. This is the fault of the acid throwing thugs (and the culture which has allowed rampant moped crime to go unpunished) and not the delivery drivers.Don't recall going on a frothing at the mouth strawman tirade either.
What exactly is your point about retribution then, if not to imply some blame on the delivery drivers?
It also ignores that acid attacks are becoming commonplace; can't put them all down to retribution.
Mr. White said:
Love the irony of your comment about personal insults, only to accuse me of going full retard.
Don't recall going on a frothing at the mouth strawman tirade either.
What exactly is your point about retribution then, if not to imply some blame on the delivery drivers?
It also ignores that acid attacks are becoming commonplace; can't put them all down to retribution.
Oh, I'm not above insulting other people, trying to take the high moral ground is just a hard habit to shake from back in the day when I used to think I'm better than others. My initial snide remark was mainly targeted at people having political debate on the web which almost never leads anywhere. As for straw man what I mean is that you were addressing a point I was not making. Don't recall going on a frothing at the mouth strawman tirade either.
What exactly is your point about retribution then, if not to imply some blame on the delivery drivers?
It also ignores that acid attacks are becoming commonplace; can't put them all down to retribution.
Anyway, my point wasn't about retribution! I'm merely trying on a Sherlock Holmes hat and pointing out the very likely connection between the delivery drivers going vigilante and then scrotes attacking them.
Acid attacks are increasing, there was that fairly recent video of an R1 being stolen from a shopping centre where the biker intervened and was splashed with acid in return for his intervention.
If I had the solutions I wouldn't be typing this from my office, I'd be running for an MP. I don't see how this can be improved without changing the rules under which police operate.
bogie said:
As already said, the system needs fixing...in favour of the "victim"...and the "victim" is not the idiot who has stolen the vehicle trying to evade capture. If you run from the Police and kill yourself that's your own fault, no-one elses. We need to get rid of this litigation crap where Police can be prosecuted themselves for chasing a criminal.
What about when the criminal being chased crashes and kills somebody else? How prepared is society to accept that?cybersimon said:
Would a police policy of unremitting stop and search or vehicle check etc for any 2up moped not disrupt?
Who but these scrotes ever go 2up on a moped?
They'll (predictably) fail to stop - leading to pursuits. Who but these scrotes ever go 2up on a moped?
nyxster said:
II
The police have been dumbheaded about this, when it started they just advised bike owners to secure them properly, so we did and then the scrotes escalated to taking out locks in broad daylight with angle grinders. Just as car immobilisers escalated thieves into breaking into houses to steal keys the scrotes cottonned on to the fact it's much quicker and easier to bike jack someone than go to the effort of defeating the security.
Until they get caught and the punishment is a severe enough deterrant whatever we do will just escalate them to the next level. If they ban acid they'll just find the supplier warehouse and steal it.
I bet very few of these bike jackers began their criminal careers armed with acid bottles and robbing people to steal motor vehicles, meaning they've likely been caught and convicted of other offences previously before escalating their behaviour.The police have been dumbheaded about this, when it started they just advised bike owners to secure them properly, so we did and then the scrotes escalated to taking out locks in broad daylight with angle grinders. Just as car immobilisers escalated thieves into breaking into houses to steal keys the scrotes cottonned on to the fact it's much quicker and easier to bike jack someone than go to the effort of defeating the security.
Until they get caught and the punishment is a severe enough deterrant whatever we do will just escalate them to the next level. If they ban acid they'll just find the supplier warehouse and steal it.
The police have to follow law and/or policy in their response. I don't see how giving people advice about how to secure their property means that the police are "dumbheaded."
Edited by RogueTrooper on Friday 14th July 16:33
Keep in mind that the Police, especially the Met, have their hands tied to a large extent.
Since the 'Henry Hicks' incident it's been difficult to pursue suspects. I believe the Officers involved in that case are still under investigation. On a BikeSafe course earlier this year I was informed that a pursuit can now take place if the officers pursuing are 'specially trained' for such incidents and the police helicopter is in attendance.
The Met Trafpol are sick and tired of these idiots, they are causing mayhem. When they do arrest them, the CPS go soft on them and they do eventually get convicted of something the Judges go soft on them ! As a result we've gone from vehicle theft, to aggravated vehicle theft, blatant violent muggings and robberies in Central London to violent bikejacking with acid. This is all the result of softly softly justice over a number of years.
Personally I do not use any of my nicer bikes in London anymore, the 45k mile BMW RT does the job and makes the crims think I'm the law !
IMHO the only way this will slow down, or end is for an example to be made of one of the perps following a sustained campaign to round up and remove these characters from the roads. A suitable custodial sentence should be the norm , not some pathetic suspended 2 year minor slap on the wrist.
For those of you on Twitter, it's worth following Ryan Francis of the Met - @Ry_Francis - he's at the sharp end.
Stay safe all.
PP
Since the 'Henry Hicks' incident it's been difficult to pursue suspects. I believe the Officers involved in that case are still under investigation. On a BikeSafe course earlier this year I was informed that a pursuit can now take place if the officers pursuing are 'specially trained' for such incidents and the police helicopter is in attendance.
The Met Trafpol are sick and tired of these idiots, they are causing mayhem. When they do arrest them, the CPS go soft on them and they do eventually get convicted of something the Judges go soft on them ! As a result we've gone from vehicle theft, to aggravated vehicle theft, blatant violent muggings and robberies in Central London to violent bikejacking with acid. This is all the result of softly softly justice over a number of years.
Personally I do not use any of my nicer bikes in London anymore, the 45k mile BMW RT does the job and makes the crims think I'm the law !
IMHO the only way this will slow down, or end is for an example to be made of one of the perps following a sustained campaign to round up and remove these characters from the roads. A suitable custodial sentence should be the norm , not some pathetic suspended 2 year minor slap on the wrist.
For those of you on Twitter, it's worth following Ryan Francis of the Met - @Ry_Francis - he's at the sharp end.
Stay safe all.
PP
Edited by pilotpaul on Friday 14th July 16:52
RogueTrooper said:
I bet very few of these bike jackers began their criminal careers armed with acid bottles and robbing people to steal motor vehicles, meaning they've likely been caught and convicted of other offences previously before escalating their behaviour.
The police have to follow law and/or policy in their response. I don't see how giving people advice about how to secure their property means that the police are "dumbheaded."
my dumbheaded point was that the police response has been that they can't pursue these crims on scooters because they might fall off, so the way to cut the amount of theft is for owners to secure their bikes properly. The other thread on here about the repeated attempts that ended in a signpost being sawn off show the advice is fundamentally flawed - the police should know that by the experience that increased car security just led to thieves burgling houses for the keys. In this case thieves just turned to angle grinders and now bike jacking with acid.The police have to follow law and/or policy in their response. I don't see how giving people advice about how to secure their property means that the police are "dumbheaded."
Edited by RogueTrooper on Friday 14th July 16:33
It's bad advice simply because criminals won't stop committing crime because security makes it harder, they will adapt, they security advice now means thieves are using violent assault to obtain property. That is not an improved situation. It was clear when the advice was given that even a alarmed bike with disklok parked in Mayfair wasn't safe in broad daylight, so there is literally not a single security product on the market that can secure a bike against the gangs methods and it is completely impractical to lug about multiple huge chains and padlock to secure a panigale. The police are being 'dumbheaded' in trying to push the responsibility to prevent onto owners, when it was already clear that would not work, and in many cases has put owners at danger of violent assault.
Clearly the police don't have an effective strategy to deal with this - spending hundreds on extra security that can easily be defeated in minutes with a angle grinder is not a strategy, and it would be far preferable to have a bike stolen while you were absent to getting disfigured painfully for life so they can jack your bike.
The real issue isn't bike security but the pursuit rules and gathering evidence to convict. Since they are wearing gloves and helmets you won't get fingerprints and photo ID, and while the police cannot pursue them from the scene of the crime they can't get caught in the act.
Technology may be a solution - drones could well allow the police to safely track suspects at a low cost compared to helicopters, alternatively they need to deploy police on scramblers trained in taking riders off at a safe point.
Ultimately this epidemic grew because the gangs became aware the police would not pursue them and could not identify them after the event, as long as that remains unsolved no amount of security will deter them from what has become easy money with very low risk of getting caught.
Edited by nyxster on Friday 14th July 17:00
RogueTrooper said:
bogie said:
As already said, the system needs fixing...in favour of the "victim"...and the "victim" is not the idiot who has stolen the vehicle trying to evade capture. If you run from the Police and kill yourself that's your own fault, no-one elses. We need to get rid of this litigation crap where Police can be prosecuted themselves for chasing a criminal.
What about when the criminal being chased crashes and kills somebody else? How prepared is society to accept that?Well how often could (or did) that happen ? Do we want criminals to run free because we are frightened that by giving chase to them the public are hurt. The logic seems flawed to me. Likely the public are going to hurt anyway by the crims, so may as well catch a few of them as a bonus
Now, if every Police pursuit results in public deaths as crims crash into them, then its probably not a good idea... but that's not really what was happening anyway.
it would appear that the silly pursuit rules for the Police may have got worse after cases like this one: https://bikerandbike.co.uk/the-bike-crime-epidemic...
...its just knee jerk reactions by rule makers that have crippled the effectiveness of our law enforcement. Being a copper these days sure must a frustrating job.....
There's a video up of one of these guys throwing a brick through the drivers window of a porsche on a dual carriageway. The consequences for not pursuing these types of criminal are far worse than risks to public of them being pursued, the more they get away with it the more brazen they become - in the same video they attacked a police car with a hammer. Do we really want criminals free to act to the point they can attack even police with impunity?
Look at the shopping centre armed robbery - left unchecked we'll end up with the sort of criminal anarchy you get in the 3rd world.
Look at the shopping centre armed robbery - left unchecked we'll end up with the sort of criminal anarchy you get in the 3rd world.
An earlier contributior referred to an article on the Biker and Bike website.
https://bikerandbike.co.uk/the-motorcycle-crime-ep...
The entire series of articles is worth a read, with a letter to send to your MP in the final piece.
Time we got behind the BiB so they can do their job properly.
https://bikerandbike.co.uk/the-motorcycle-crime-ep...
The entire series of articles is worth a read, with a letter to send to your MP in the final piece.
Time we got behind the BiB so they can do their job properly.
It's been happening before:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1567109/shocking-mom...
I'm sure I heard about another attack last year but can't recall the place it happened.
Bikers saying they want to protest on Facebook but never have demands. Politicians couldn't arrange a piss up in a brewery, look at the state of everything.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1567109/shocking-mom...
I'm sure I heard about another attack last year but can't recall the place it happened.
Bikers saying they want to protest on Facebook but never have demands. Politicians couldn't arrange a piss up in a brewery, look at the state of everything.
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