My bike handling skills are rubbish
Discussion
Kawasicki said:
Ho Lee Kau said:
Courses and track days are great, but for overall good road riding you need experience doing road riding. I lost my bike on the road twice, both times without any injuries and with minimal damage to the bike, thankfully. I had close calls many times. I learned a lot from my own experience, no book of video will help you with road riding, really.
I think the best way on the road is not to be too hot-headed and not assume anything, especially that car drivers see you (even if they look you straight in the face, I had that experience!)
I agree with advice regarding car drivers being unpredictable, but from my experience a lot of motorbike riders suffer from having limited knowledge how to actually corner. Cornering skills are even more important on the road than they are on track...I think the best way on the road is not to be too hot-headed and not assume anything, especially that car drivers see you (even if they look you straight in the face, I had that experience!)
That's why I said it's good to:
1) take a proper leaning course right away and not to wait until all kind of bad habits build up in the brain,
2) have a track day with a good instructor.
But one has to remember that public roads are much deadlier than track, for many different reasons. I had some acquaintances quit road riding completely and switch fully to track riding, and that's in Switzerland, where one has to travel abroad to get on a track. It's easier in UK, imho, you have many tracks in-country.
Dick Seaman said:
Harry H said:
Training wise do a search for Hopper Rider Training.
Their track training days are focused towards mere mortals and not wanna be riding gods.
It's all about smooth lines and getting your weight right with them and not a track prepared R1 in sight. One bloke last year turned up on a Honda Silverwing scooter which was interesting although I wouldn't recommend it, but he did have a smile on his face.
You will need to travel, but a great day out and you will learn a lot.
That looks ideal too. Caldwell is miles away but probably worth the trip. 7x30 min on track training sessions for £250 doesn't sound too bad. Their track training days are focused towards mere mortals and not wanna be riding gods.
It's all about smooth lines and getting your weight right with them and not a track prepared R1 in sight. One bloke last year turned up on a Honda Silverwing scooter which was interesting although I wouldn't recommend it, but he did have a smile on his face.
You will need to travel, but a great day out and you will learn a lot.
High speed cornering practice = track riding.
I would suggest BikeSafe Link . It's basically a Police led initiative, you have a classroom session, then you have a officer on his bike following you and assessing you, with stops for regular feedback and a full assessment at the end. It was very cool, you instantly become a better rider as there is no radio communication, you lead and keep an eye for his indicators, so you are already scanning everything around you.
I recommend it.
I recommend it.
Agree with the Bikesafe recommendation. I did one in March and found it to be excellent with some useful & practical advice to work with plus the Met were great fun and very professional (as you would expect). I followed that up with joining IAM and whilst the rides are only as good as the observer I found it to be a complete waste of time and money with no useful input and I didn't even get an assessment despite being on the road for nearly 4 hours (longer than expected).
I found the RoSPA rides out similar to bikesafe, just extended. Again much is down to the instructor you are assigned. Usually you find the pool of local instructors doing Bikesafe, RoSPA etc are often the same guys.
I did an IAM ride many years ago and didnt gel with their rigid application of "the system", perhaps down to the instructor. When I re-visited "advanced" training 8 years ago after an enforced break from riding/driving I went with RoSPA and really found it useful, stayed with it and re-certified.
www.roadar.org will have details of local groups
I did an IAM ride many years ago and didnt gel with their rigid application of "the system", perhaps down to the instructor. When I re-visited "advanced" training 8 years ago after an enforced break from riding/driving I went with RoSPA and really found it useful, stayed with it and re-certified.
www.roadar.org will have details of local groups
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Thanks, I've thought about most of those. There's so much advice (good and bad) available at the click of a mouse, you can end up thinking about too much when riding. I think this is part of my fundamental problem, I know lots of theory but don't yet have the confidence to properly test it out, especially on the road. It's probably time to drop the DIY approach and get some proper training,alistair1234 said:
I did the Ron Haslam school on an 8c cold wednesday where it had started to very lightly hail stone whilst we were in the pits.
1st few corners i was wobbling all over the place, thought i was never going to work it out.................Best thing i've ever done.
Thanks, whether or not it's the Haslam school, I think I need to get on track.1st few corners i was wobbling all over the place, thought i was never going to work it out.................Best thing i've ever done.
cbmotorsport said:
I'll echo this. I bet looking far ahead and 'through' corners is something you do in a car without thinking about it. It's no different on a bike, and will make your riding so much smoother.
Looking 'through' or 'round' the corner was one thing that did not come naturally at all. I still have to concentrate on it but have experienced the benefits enough to know how important it is.Over the years I've done a fair few miles in group riding with varying abilities and nearly every time we get a bit of a novice that's struggling it's because they're trying to ride too fast.
My advice to any newbie is to slow it down. Especially corner entry. Too fast in always means very slow out. So it's better to think I've could have gone in faster than to come out all over the shop.
Nice and slow in, look for the exit, point your chin where you want to go and everything else will fall into place.
It's a lot harder to practice technique on the road though as there's so much more going on. So get that track day booked, go round and round at your own pace gradually building your speed. It's all about the rhythm !
My advice to any newbie is to slow it down. Especially corner entry. Too fast in always means very slow out. So it's better to think I've could have gone in faster than to come out all over the shop.
Nice and slow in, look for the exit, point your chin where you want to go and everything else will fall into place.
It's a lot harder to practice technique on the road though as there's so much more going on. So get that track day booked, go round and round at your own pace gradually building your speed. It's all about the rhythm !
bogie said:
Have a look at www.i2imca.com for bike handling training, they do some great courses.
also its cheap to join RoSPA and go out with local instructor for a few rides. For £40 you cant get better training. What is termed " advanced" standard of riding should be the default standard for safe road riding. Its a great way to establish good habits early on in your riding career.
Done the i2i and found it very good.also its cheap to join RoSPA and go out with local instructor for a few rides. For £40 you cant get better training. What is termed " advanced" standard of riding should be the default standard for safe road riding. Its a great way to establish good habits early on in your riding career.
Dick Seaman said:
Agreed and thanks for the video link
No worries and if I can give one last bit of advise. Dont overthink it. Dont overthink things in general. I see it with guys on road or track so desperate to get their knee down, hang off, elbow down etc that they forget the simple stuffEnjoy and ride safe
Dick Seaman said:
Looking 'through' or 'round' the corner was one thing that did not come naturally at all. I still have to concentrate on it but have experienced the benefits enough to know how important it is.
There's another technique you can practice whist in the car on the motorway. Try not to use your brakes. To do this you have to be looking a lot further ahead than your average driver which helps massively when riding a bike. Helps keep it nice and smooth and we all know smooth is fast.Edited by Harry H on Friday 28th July 16:14
Dick Seaman said:
My main concern is cornering faster and how to react when things start to go wrong.
I'm in a similar position, happy enough zipping back and forth to work, but really lack the confidence and skills when things speed up. And riding in the rain just plain terrifies me, I feel like I'm on ice! 
Harry H said:
Over the years I've done a fair few miles in group riding with varying abilities and nearly every time we get a bit of a novice that's struggling it's because they're trying to ride too fast.
My advice to any newbie is to slow it down. Especially corner entry. Too fast in always means very slow out. So it's better to think I've could have gone in faster than to come out all over the shop.
Nice and slow in, look for the exit, point your chin where you want to go and everything else will fall into place.
It's a lot harder to practice technique on the road though as there's so much more going on. So get that track day booked, go round and round at your own pace gradually building your speed. It's all about the rhythm !
Very much this - I rarely brake hard on corner entry on the road, if it's a series of bends then it's a case of rolling on the throttle out the corner and using engine braking and some light braking for the next corner to get set up.My advice to any newbie is to slow it down. Especially corner entry. Too fast in always means very slow out. So it's better to think I've could have gone in faster than to come out all over the shop.
Nice and slow in, look for the exit, point your chin where you want to go and everything else will fall into place.
It's a lot harder to practice technique on the road though as there's so much more going on. So get that track day booked, go round and round at your own pace gradually building your speed. It's all about the rhythm !
Slow in, fast out. Look through the corner and don't be afraid to lean!! In the dry, with warm tyres, on a dry, grippy road the bike ain't going anyhwere apart from round the corner so long as you lean it enough.
Dick Seaman said:
feef said:
Have a go at motogymkhana
Looks great. Will consider that in the future. First I want to get some high speed corner experience and training. Excuse the jerky video, I hadn't edited much video before and got something wrong with frame rates
https://vimeo.com/42309775
TurbosSuck said:
And riding in the rain just plain terrifies me, I feel like I'm on ice!
Probably a self fulfilling prophecy. If you tense up, the bike will feel insecure whatever is under the tyres. Also you might be being a bit overcautious with the throttle and decelerating slightly round corners which again makes the bike feel odd.Relax and trust the bike.
Wet tarmac itself isn't a problem, you can touch the pegs down if you want to. It's only if there's mud, oil or manhole covers that the lose of grip is severe. The first rain after a long dry spell also washes all kinds of gunk onto the road but with current weather that's unlikely to be a problem.
So generally unless you are really gung ho in the dry you can ride pretty normally in the wet.
Dr Jekyll said:
Probably a self fulfilling prophecy. If you tense up, the bike will feel insecure whatever is under the tyres. Also you might be being a bit overcautious with the throttle and decelerating slightly round corners which again makes the bike feel odd.
Relax and trust the bike.
Wet tarmac itself isn't a problem, you can touch the pegs down if you want to. It's only if there's mud, oil or manhole covers that the lose of grip is severe. The first rain after a long dry spell also washes all kinds of gunk onto the road but with current weather that's unlikely to be a problem.
So generally unless you are really gung ho in the dry you can ride pretty normally in the wet.
If you're not too far away I'll pop along to see you getting your pegs down in the wet. Relax and trust the bike.
Wet tarmac itself isn't a problem, you can touch the pegs down if you want to. It's only if there's mud, oil or manhole covers that the lose of grip is severe. The first rain after a long dry spell also washes all kinds of gunk onto the road but with current weather that's unlikely to be a problem.
So generally unless you are really gung ho in the dry you can ride pretty normally in the wet.
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