2005 KTM 450 EXC - worth a punt as a fun weekend off roader?

[Bikesalot]

You're not a real biker unless you've given a 450 a try first, so I've heard...

I've just got myself a CRF450R - haven't ridden off road in over 10 years so if I don't post in a while you'll know it went horribly wrong and I died.

The reason I got a 450 was purely price driven - it was dirt cheap and in no way related to my expert skill level.

[tanneman]

That will be the RFS engine. Reliable or so they say but the weak spot is the valves. In my opinion the 250 4t is the better all rounder and one of the best out of the box is the Yam WR250. The KTM is good but you will need to give the suspension some attention to suit you. The 450 is a beast. The earlier ones with the RFS engine has good low down easy to use torque (all 450 but this one is easier on you) but if you wind it on it becomes silly very quickly. Perfect for the more open trails but if you don't have the experience it can bite you on the more gnarly stuff. You will have to learn clutch and throttle control and this can be a steep learning curve on the 450 but it has the get up and go to get you out of trouble unlike the 250 4t where you have to select a gear and wind it up. Overall I would say you can't go wrong with the choice but be prepared to be humbled.

If you want the torque and the easy nature of the 250 have a look at the 400EXC. A bit heavier but ever so easy to ride. Perfect for greenlane applications. Comparing the XR to the EXC it is totally two different machines. Put it this way. The XR would be a good desert racer where the speed and easy power matters, in KTM speak that would be the 500EXC. The 450 is a more grown up and suitable for experts in enduro or MX where the power can be exploited by an athlete of similar ability. It doesn't mean that you can't have a try. Any worries about your ability and you can go and do some off road training with Yamaha Off Road School (highly recommended), Patsy Quick or Ady Smith. Have fun.

[Blackpuddin]

Confirming Tanneman's rating of the WR250F (needs to be the F). They have these at a Welsh off-road tryout day I went on last year and I couldn't believe how brilliant they are. Fantastically capable but also so easy to ride. Not cheap, around £7k new, and not many used ones around (which tells you something), but it would be my first choice. Rode a 400 4str KTM a few years ago and loved the fact that you could plod around just about anywhere in third gear. Also tried a smaller 2-stroke, liked the low weight of that but found it too sensitive on the throttle. All this is based on me being a rubbish rider.

Edited by Blackpuddin on Sunday 20th August 16:04

[crusty]

stuckmojo said:

Best for enduro are 300 2t

This, so much

[Kawasicki]

tanneman said:

That will be the RFS engine. Reliable or so they say but the weak spot is the valves. In my opinion the 250 4t is the better all rounder and one of the best out of the box is the Yam WR250. The KTM is good but you will need to give the suspension some attention to suit you. The 450 is a beast. The earlier ones with the RFS engine has good low down easy to use torque (all 450 but this one is easier on you) but if you wind it on it becomes silly very quickly. Perfect for the more open trails but if you don't have the experience it can bite you on the more gnarly stuff. You will have to learn clutch and throttle control and this can be a steep learning curve on the 450 but it has the get up and go to get you out of trouble unlike the 250 4t where you have to select a gear and wind it up. Overall I would say you can't go wrong with the choice but be prepared to be humbled.

If you want the torque and the easy nature of the 250 have a look at the 400EXC. A bit heavier but ever so easy to ride. Perfect for greenlane applications. Comparing the XR to the EXC it is totally two different machines. Put it this way. The XR would be a good desert racer where the speed and easy power matters, in KTM speak that would be the 500EXC. The 450 is a more grown up and suitable for experts in enduro or MX where the power can be exploited by an athlete of similar ability. It doesn't mean that you can't have a try. Any worries about your ability and you can go and do some off road training with Yamaha Off Road School (highly recommended), Patsy Quick or Ady Smith. Have fun.

My 525 was the RFS engine and as you said it had great low down torque, it was also very easy to modulate the ample low rpm power...so I didn't rev it hard...my valves had a very easy time...I checked clearances regularly and their was only very slow change.

I tried a mates 530...it was completely different...for me it was almost unrideable, the bottom end torque was savage and the throttle response super sharp.

What I am try to say is it depends on the model....saying that I rode on fast/rutted/sandy trails..never in the uk...so maybe just ignore my "buy an old 525 advice"!

[Xtriple129]

450s are pussycats! Lots of torque and dead easy to ride in too high a gear whereas all the 250s demand you be on it all the time - correct gear and revs. 450s will just bimble along but with a flick of the wrist loft the front to clear stuff. I am a lazy rider (or rather, was) and love 450s simply because they are so easy to ride. Sure, when the mood demands a 450 will rip your arms off and then beat you to death with the soggy ends (copy write everyone circa 1965 ) and you will have great fun while it tries to kill you!

I had a WR 450 (05) and then an 08 Husky TE450 and I loved them both - the Husky handled so well it was the only dirt bike I never fell off! Standard the WRs are a bit restricted but easy to de-restrict but to be honest, they are a nicer bike to ride left alone with all the restrictions in place.

Lots of my friends had KTM 400s or 450s and they always seemed to be nice bikes (I never had a KTM simply because EVERYONE had one in one size or another which says quite a lot for their reliability and good manners) but as with all dirt bikes they need lots of maintenance - oil change every other ride at least and the KTMs have two filters and two areas to drain (I think) which makes them a bit more awkward but as they only hold just over a litre of oil, not expensive or arduous to be diligent about. Top end rebuilds do come around and again, are dead easy and not too expensive for a new piston/rings and a few gaskets.

But, make sure it's been looked after as they can deteriorate really quickly if neglected: wheel bearings, swingarm and head stock bearings are frequent replacement items as are chains especially if they have not been looked after. Good news is: all parts for KTMs are easy to get and cheap!

In summary, 450s are great and I knew several people who rode 520 - 525 KTMs and had no bother with them. 250s are great when you are young and fit and really on it but when a bit older/fatter/in-fitter then 450s are the way to go!

[crusty]

Xtriple129 said:

In summary, 450s are great and I knew several people who rode 520 - 525 KTMs and had no bother with them. 250s are great when you are young and fit and really on it but when a bit older/fatter/in-fitter then 450s are the way to go!

I am sorry, but this is about the worst advice I have ever read on PH, you could not be more wrong

[Kawasicki]

crusty said:

Xtriple129 said:

In summary, 450s are great and I knew several people who rode 520 - 525 KTMs and had no bother with them. 250s are great when you are young and fit and really on it but when a bit older/fatter/in-fitter then 450s are the way to go!

I am sorry, but this is about the worst advice I have ever read on PH, you could not be more wrong

I'm wrong too clearly!

[Gavia]

Kawasicki said:

crusty said:

Xtriple129 said:

In summary, 450s are great and I knew several people who rode 520 - 525 KTMs and had no bother with them. 250s are great when you are young and fit and really on it but when a bit older/fatter/in-fitter then 450s are the way to go!

I am sorry, but this is about the worst advice I have ever read on PH, you could not be more wrong

I'm wrong too clearly!

So am I. I agree that its the worst advice on here for a long time.

[hman]

I've had 250's 450's (4T's) and 300 (2T)

The 250 was a great starting point but it became too slow for me as I got used to it and needed clutching a lot to get it to pull properly. Still it was good for green lanes and would manage an enduro..

The 450 (ktm refs) was very torquey and could be ridden lazily or full chat mental (had and jetting kit too for better snap response and top end). Great for enduro or green lanes but easy to dig holes on the loose technical stuff or loop out by accident from the huge torque.

The 300 2T was full chat mental, but was lightweight and great for proper enduros - but wasn't great for green laning as even with an NEDC needle it was a little spluttery just off tick over.

Start on a 250 4T its easier to go slow and learn the techniques than to be fighting a powerful bike.

Also a 2005 4T bike will be needing a piston if it's not been done recently - and that's not a small job on a 4T

Eta: my profile pic is me enjoying the 450 at rogershill

Edited by hman on Monday 21st August 23:40

[OldGermanHeaps]

hman said:

Also a 2005 4T bike will be needing a piston if it's not been done recently - and that's not a small job on a 4T

Not as easy as a 2 stroke granted but fk its only a couple of hours easy work.

[Moulder]

Just seen this in a 2 year old copy of Bike, make if it what you will.

Edited by Moulder on Tuesday 22 August 10:23

[hman]

OldGermanHeaps said:

hman said:

Also a 2005 4T bike will be needing a piston if it's not been done recently - and that's not a small job on a 4T

Not as easy as a 2 stroke granted but fk its only a couple of hours easy work.

Depends what you find when you open up a 2005 4t RFS motor...

Could be just a piston, (possible)
Could be piston and rebore (more likely)
Could need a cam, (unlikely but possible)
Could need valves (very possible if clearances weren't kept in check )
Could need a new head (unlikely but possible - see above about exhaust valves )
Could need a cam chain, (unlikely but possible)

a 2T top end rebuild can snowball when opening one up - but nothing like a 4T

Theres a reason why a 2005 off-road bike is worth very little - its because to make it ride anything like it should it probably needs :-

Fork rebuild and setting up for the new rider
Rear Shock rebuild and setting up for the new rider
Front and rear wheel bearings
Headstock Bearings
Top end rebuild
Clutch (at least a basket and pressure plates)
Rear Linkage bearings
Swing arm bearings
Brakes front and rear
Sprockets front and rear
Chain

If the new owner can see that some of those jobs can be ticked off the list or the previous owner can produce receipts for parts for any or all of those tasks from the last 6-12 months then it would be a good idea to budget for them.

[foxsasha]

hman said:

Depends what you find when you open up a 2005 4t RFS motor...

Could be just a piston, (possible)
Could be piston and rebore (more likely)
Could need a cam, (unlikely but possible)
Could need valves (very possible if clearances weren't kept in check )
Could need a new head (unlikely but possible - see above about exhaust valves )
Could need a cam chain, (unlikely but possible)

a 2T top end rebuild can snowball when opening one up - but nothing like a 4T

Theres a reason why a 2005 off-road bike is worth very little - its because to make it ride anything like it should it probably needs :-

Fork rebuild and setting up for the new rider
Rear Shock rebuild and setting up for the new rider
Front and rear wheel bearings
Headstock Bearings
Top end rebuild
Clutch (at least a basket and pressure plates)
Rear Linkage bearings
Swing arm bearings
Brakes front and rear
Sprockets front and rear
Chain

If the new owner can see that some of those jobs can be ticked off the list or the previous owner can produce receipts for parts for any or all of those tasks from the last 6-12 months then it would be a good idea to budget for them.

Plus:

Tyres
Chain guides
Plastics

These bikes need a lot of love to keep them up to standard. So much so it it is far less expensive that it first appears to buy new on a yearly basis and so avoid the costs of top end rebuild, chain, sprockets, tyres, bearings, discs, pads, starter issues (on 2Ts), plastics, suspension rebuild etc.

[Biker 1]

I've tried the 450 in Spain a few years back - was exactly the right bike for the easy, novice friendly mountain trails/gravel roads out there. I dropped it a couple of times & it seemed pretty robust. also tried a 250 KTM stroker - nearly pulled my arms out of their sockets with that narrow power band! I also did a Desert Rose day: I tried an EXC 350, which was really good, & also a 690 Enduro, which was a beast!
I'd have any one of those bikes in a heartbeat, IF I lived in the southern Spanish mountains, where it seems off-roading is tolerated....

[Birky_41]

foxsasha said:

hman said:

Depends what you find when you open up a 2005 4t RFS motor...

Could be just a piston, (possible)
Could be piston and rebore (more likely)
Could need a cam, (unlikely but possible)
Could need valves (very possible if clearances weren't kept in check )
Could need a new head (unlikely but possible - see above about exhaust valves )
Could need a cam chain, (unlikely but possible)

a 2T top end rebuild can snowball when opening one up - but nothing like a 4T

Theres a reason why a 2005 off-road bike is worth very little - its because to make it ride anything like it should it probably needs :-

Fork rebuild and setting up for the new rider
Rear Shock rebuild and setting up for the new rider
Front and rear wheel bearings
Headstock Bearings
Top end rebuild
Clutch (at least a basket and pressure plates)
Rear Linkage bearings
Swing arm bearings
Brakes front and rear
Sprockets front and rear
Chain

If the new owner can see that some of those jobs can be ticked off the list or the previous owner can produce receipts for parts for any or all of those tasks from the last 6-12 months then it would be a good idea to budget for them.

Plus:

Tyres
Chain guides
Plastics

These bikes need a lot of love to keep them up to standard. So much so it it is far less expensive that it first appears to buy new on a yearly basis and so avoid the costs of top end rebuild, chain, sprockets, tyres, bearings, discs, pads, starter issues (on 2Ts), plastics, suspension rebuild etc.

I can relate to this and have to agree. These were my 2 250 smokers I raced in 2012. The one on the left was a brand new 2008 model but in the sop until '12 when I got it. Other than the buying of the bike and suspension setup there was no money spent

The one on the right was a 2003 model which is very similar but a few small differences. We bought this as it was a friend of my dads bike that had done less than 20 hours and was still on the original front tyre & pads however it had a few small issues, the plastics were faded & it a jetting/carb issue. It was at the time 9 years old but a great deal and cheap at approx £800



Thats where a cheap bike can suddenly depending on the level you want it to be become expensive. I wont go into all the boring detail but it cost alot of time, dyno work and money to get it running right and I wonder whether it was worth it

If you dont mind a dried up headstock, pogo suspension, loose wheel bearings and a rattly cam and just want to hack it until it dies then ignore all the above. Im a fussy bugger though and like a nice feeling bike