Helmet cam catches rider crash

Helmet cam catches rider crash

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Discussion

Biker 1

7,696 posts

118 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
WarnieV6GT said:
What about the aspect of proving right or wrong in the event of an accident ? I understand it's wise to turn it off, which is easy enough if I decide to ride like a cock so surely they can't be that bad if used correctly?
I would be EXTREMELY careful with cameras. I personally limit my GoPro to off road riding.
If you want to show someone a wonderful view, either stop at the side of the road & take some photos, or show them where you were on Streetview....

Jazoli

9,086 posts

249 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Dick Seaman said:
bennyboysvuk said:
I was told or I read many years ago that it wasn't possible to lose the front on a dry road through countersteering hard
I'm reasonably new to biking, have ridden 7000 miles since passing my test a year ago. I've been practicing/experimenting with conscious countersteering for a few months and have been wondering about this. Is it true? I've been assuming that if I keep pushing harder on the inside bar eventually the bike will just fall over.
You can't defy the laws of physics, if you force a bike beyond its limits by countersteering/braking too hard/leaning over too far it will crash, but self preservation kicks in a long way before you are about to exceed the limits usually, very few people can exploit all the grip available to them.

carinaman

21,224 posts

171 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Biker 1 said:
WarnieV6GT said:
What about the aspect of proving right or wrong in the event of an accident ? I understand it's wise to turn it off, which is easy enough if I decide to ride like a cock so surely they can't be that bad if used correctly?
I would be EXTREMELY careful with cameras. I personally limit my GoPro to off road riding.
If you want to show someone a wonderful view, either stop at the side of the road & take some photos, or show them where you were on Streetview....
There's a risk of helmet cam recorded crashes may help lead to clampdowns on motorcycle ownership and usage from the powers that be?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmErhBaffuo


The KTM rider ending up in a field would seem to confirm that some people play up for the camera, to get exciting footage to show off? So their mind is on their riding and the road or getting the camera footage?

WarnieV6GT

1,135 posts

198 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
carinaman said:
There's a risk of helmet cam recorded crashes may help lead to clampdowns on motorcycle ownership and usage from the powers that be?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmErhBaffuo


The KTM rider ending up in a field would seem to confirm that some people play up for the camera, to get exciting footage to show off? So their mind is on their riding and the road or getting the camera footage?
Yeah I must admit it is tempting to push that little bit more. I haven't since I've had it because the roads are so ste.

But I still like looking back on the ride I've just had and enjoy making short videos, so with that in mind I'll stick with it... but switch it off when I decide to ride like an asshole

Gavia

7,627 posts

90 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
carinaman said:
There's a risk of helmet cam recorded crashes may help lead to clampdowns on motorcycle ownership and usage from the powers that be?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmErhBaffuo


The KTM rider ending up in a field would seem to confirm that some people play up for the camera, to get exciting footage to show off? So their mind is on their riding and the road or getting the camera footage?
How can it lead to clampdowns? The internet is full of st driving caught on camera and I don’t see a clampdown on car ownership.

carinaman

21,224 posts

171 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Gavia said:
How can it lead to clampdowns? The internet is full of st driving caught on camera and I don’t see a clampdown on car ownership.
Fair point. More regulation then? I thought the EU were pushing for leg guards or some such a few years ago?

It's far more complicated to get a bike licence now than the last century.

Gavia

7,627 posts

90 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
carinaman said:
Fair point. More regulation then? I thought the EU were pushing for leg guards or some such a few years ago?
Leg guards were about 30 years ago and discounted, as they were proven that they’d just rip your legs off in anything other than a minor spill.

Sadly the licence qualification rules are the thing that’ll kill biking, irrespective of how badly we all ride.

carinaman

21,224 posts

171 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Gavia said:
Sadly the licence qualification rules are the thing that’ll kill biking, irrespective of how badly we all ride.

mister_ee

347 posts

181 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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carinaman said:
I'd agree that he may've been acting up for the camera and more interested in getting the footage than riding the bike.

From the local newspaper report I think it said the chap on the BMW had had his full licence for 2 years and sold the bike 2 days after that accident, and the KTM Go Pro chap had been riding 3 to 4 times longer, so my current understanding is the least experienced rider was the one that was ahead and turned around.
This doesn't really mean much though:-

KTM rider - passes direct access, doesn't ride for a couple of years, gets a scooter for commuting then upgrades to a CB500 which is only ever ridden through London traffic, decides he likes the look of a superbike, buys an RC8 and sticks it through a hedge on his 3rd ride out in the countryside

BMW rider - 5 years of schoolboy motocross, buys 125, couple of years riding a CBR600 illegally , couple of seasons club racing, passes DAS gets S1000RR does 20,000 miles in 2 years - doesn't crash when being chased by nob on RC8, keeps an eye on his mirrors

Nothing the BMW rider did was overly concerning, the KTM guy had signs of inexperience from the off, overtaking on solid whites, overtaking past a junction etc he basically looked and sounded like an accident waiting to happen.

carinaman

21,224 posts

171 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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mister_ee said:
This doesn't really mean much though:-
Point taken.

joema

2,644 posts

178 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
quotequote all
Is that youtube link the same footage as the original article as the original link doesn't work.

But it's not that hard to get a bike license though is it? Two relatively simple practical testsd. And then you get access to insane machinery.

Gavia

7,627 posts

90 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
quotequote all
joema said:
Is that youtube link the same footage as the original article as the original link doesn't work.

But it's not that hard to get a bike license though is it? Two relatively simple practical testsd. And then you get access to insane machinery.
Two?

Assuming you’re over 24 then it’s at least four - CBT, theory, Mods 1 & 2

If you’re younger then you have to do even more every time you want to ride a bike with a bigger cc

https://youtu.be/ZUWViatY_LA

YouTube vid works for me and isn’t the same as the first one.

joema

2,644 posts

178 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
quotequote all
Two practical... I suppose the CBT is but it seems to be some sort of formality and not a test.

And restricting under 24's seems sensible? I don't know why they chose 24.

And I don't really know why people on A2 need to do it all again when the tests don't involve power.

I heard they were looking to change them again anyway where A2's could get their full licence after two years and a certain amount of hours spent with instructors. But that could be bought...

But if you're over 24 it's not hard at all.

Sa Calobra

37,011 posts

210 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
quotequote all
He's a straight line Charlie. Fast on the straight, can't lean or have any ability to ride a bike in the bends.

MR2_SC

316 posts

183 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
quotequote all
Jazoli said:
Dick Seaman said:
bennyboysvuk said:
I was told or I read many years ago that it wasn't possible to lose the front on a dry road through countersteering hard
I'm reasonably new to biking, have ridden 7000 miles since passing my test a year ago. I've been practicing/experimenting with conscious countersteering for a few months and have been wondering about this. Is it true? I've been assuming that if I keep pushing harder on the inside bar eventually the bike will just fall over.
You can't defy the laws of physics, if you force a bike beyond its limits by countersteering/braking too hard/leaning over too far it will crash, but self preservation kicks in a long way before you are about to exceed the limits usually, very few people can exploit all the grip available to them.
As above, physics will prevail. I have crashed by counter steering too hard. In hindsight, the tyres were a few years old and I was leant a long way over already when I tried to tighten my line a bit more. So unlikely but not impossible.

BobSaunders

3,028 posts

154 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
quotequote all
carinaman said:
There's a risk of helmet cam recorded crashes may help lead to clampdowns on motorcycle ownership and usage from the powers that be?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmErhBaffuo
His mate died about 10-15 seconds after the end of that video. He was overtaking at about 100mph and a car (going in same direction) pulled out to overtake another car without looking and clipped his front/side. He was catapulted onto the other side of the road.

That's why his footage was seized.

cmaguire

3,589 posts

108 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
quotequote all
MR2_SC said:
As above, physics will prevail. I have crashed by counter steering too hard. In hindsight, the tyres were a few years old and I was leant a long way over already when I tried to tighten my line a bit more. So unlikely but not impossible.
But which wheel lost traction?
With controlled and smooth inputs then it'll always be the rear unless the front is exposed to conditions/forces that neither end can cope with and lets go by virtue of being the first wheel to experience those conditions (leaves/mud/oil or braking forces for example).

Jazoli

9,086 posts

249 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
quotequote all
cmaguire said:
But which wheel lost traction?
With controlled and smooth inputs then it'll always be the rear unless the front is exposed to conditions/forces that neither end can cope with and lets go by virtue of being the first wheel to experience those conditions (leaves/mud/oil or braking forces for example).
You sure about that? most crashes I see are racers losing the front off the throttle and they are masters of controlled and smooth inputs confused or do you mean when the bike is under power and not on a trailing throttle?

cmaguire

3,589 posts

108 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
quotequote all
They're usually trail braking in the circumstances you mention though.

bennyboysvuk

3,491 posts

247 months

Friday 19th January 2018
quotequote all
MR2_SC said:
Jazoli said:
Dick Seaman said:
bennyboysvuk said:
I was told or I read many years ago that it wasn't possible to lose the front on a dry road through countersteering hard
I'm reasonably new to biking, have ridden 7000 miles since passing my test a year ago. I've been practicing/experimenting with conscious countersteering for a few months and have been wondering about this. Is it true? I've been assuming that if I keep pushing harder on the inside bar eventually the bike will just fall over.
You can't defy the laws of physics, if you force a bike beyond its limits by countersteering/braking too hard/leaning over too far it will crash, but self preservation kicks in a long way before you are about to exceed the limits usually, very few people can exploit all the grip available to them.
As above, physics will prevail. I have crashed by counter steering too hard. In hindsight, the tyres were a few years old and I was leant a long way over already when I tried to tighten my line a bit more. So unlikely but not impossible.
I should probably caveat this by saying that all this was on warmed Supercorsas on sports bikes. Going from bolt upright to knee on the deck, I've countersteered as hard as I possibly could at between around 70-100 (on track) and the bike just gets on its side ridiculously quickly, to the point where your knee hits the deck with some force. It's the same thing on the road, albeit, not at 100. wink It never felt like the bike was going to lose grip and felt more like I wasn't strong enough to make it turn any faster, but then I wouldn't want it to either. It's just nice to know that it can.