Helmet cam catches rider crash
Discussion
He panics and brakes for sure, but the video also, in slow motion, clearly shows him trying to steer incorrectly, which leads him into the path of the truck. Of course, the other problem is that he didn't approach the corner correctly in the first place - i.e. Too fast considering he didn't seem to know what was around there.
Berty3000 said:
He panics and brakes for sure, but the video also, in slow motion, clearly shows him trying to steer incorrectly, which leads him into the path of the truck. Of course, the other problem is that he didn't approach the corner correctly in the first place - i.e. Too fast considering he didn't seem to know what was around there.
What you’re seeing in slow motion is someone trying to regain control of a bike after momentarily locking the front wheel, the bike is steering him, rather than the other way around. He could easily have made it round that corner, if he hadn’t stared at the truck and the panicked.
Gavia said:
Berty3000 said:
He panics and brakes for sure, but the video also, in slow motion, clearly shows him trying to steer incorrectly, which leads him into the path of the truck. Of course, the other problem is that he didn't approach the corner correctly in the first place - i.e. Too fast considering he didn't seem to know what was around there.
What you’re seeing in slow motion is someone trying to regain control of a bike after momentarily locking the front wheel, the bike is steering him, rather than the other way around. He could easily have made it round that corner, if he hadn’t stared at the truck and the panicked.
Berty3000 said:
He clearly tries, three times, to steer the bike like a bicycle, in other words, the opposite of counter steering. In doing this, he man handles the bike away from the direction he was leaning. The bike tries to stand up three times as he does this (braking probably a factor too) and he undermines his lean, and his journey around the corner.
Watch it in real time. He stands the bike up while grabbing the brakes, locks the front, releases the brake and is fighting to regain control of an out of control bike. He has no conscious input into the bars, they are controlling him. Gavia said:
Watch it in real time. He stands the bike up while grabbing the brakes, locks the front, releases the brake and is fighting to regain control of an out of control bike. He has no conscious input into the bars, they are controlling him.
Yup, and as BN pointed out earlier, the guy is out of control from the minute he hits the brake, the three 'efforts to steer' are nothing of the sort, the bike is out of control at that point. He could have easily avoided the truck had he not panicked.Instead of trying to over think things it sometimes pays to listen to experienced riders who have decades of experience of riding bloody quickly and sometimes over the limit, we are not all wet nosed kids on here
We'll have to agree to disagree I think. I'm with the people who made the video. Lots of discussion on the YouTube page. Probably a combo of factors. I can't see the front wheel lock, but a mixture of incorrect steering and grabbing the brakes the cause for me. He would have made it around the corner had he counter steered the correct way, and not braked hard. Even light braking might have been OK with correct steering, providing he'd maintained enough speed, although ideally no braking. Better still, slow down before the corner and then enter it in a more informed way.
Berty3000 said:
He clearly tries, three times, to steer the bike like a bicycle, in other words, the opposite of counter steering. In doing this, he man handles the bike away from the direction he was leaning. The bike tries to stand up three times as he does this (braking probably a factor too) and he undermines his lean, and his journey around the corner.
Errr a bicycle steers just like a motorcycle.Also how many people think what way to push/pull the bars when cornering? No one, anyone that can ride a bike around a corner will do so naturally, and even more so in a panic situation.
The guy in the video you posted did not once think what way to push/pull the bars when he saw that truck.
Jazoli said:
Instead of trying to over think things it sometimes pays to listen to experienced riders who have decades of experience of riding bloody quickly and sometimes over the limit, we are not all wet nosed kids on here
If that is directed at me then you have only revealed yourself to be a complacent and arrogant old fool. Nothing I have said on this thread has anything to do with over thinking. I have only described the principles of counter steering, and that is physics. Perhaps you can read what people have to say and be open to facts and opinions, regardless of who shares them? There is disagreement over how to interpret that video - you will find a lot of different types of people discussing and disagreeing over it on the YouTube page. We cannot know for certain with the information available.
A lot old timers don't even know what counter steering is. They do it every time they ride by looking and leaning. That works, and nothing wrong with it. But there's no need to be afraid of thinking and understanding either.
Berty3000 said:
We'll have to agree to disagree I think. I'm with the people who made the video. Lots of discussion on the YouTube page. Probably a combo of factors. I can't see the front wheel lock, but a mixture of incorrect steering and grabbing the brakes the cause for me. He would have made it around the corner had he counter steered the correct way, and not braked hard. Even light braking might have been OK with correct steering, providing he'd maintained enough speed, although ideally no braking. Better still, slow down before the corner and then enter it in a more informed way.
Read the bit below in bold. It’ll stand you in better stead than believing what you have done so far. You are wrong though, take it from people who have a lot of experience.
Jazoli said:
Yup, and as BN pointed out earlier, the guy is out of control from the minute he hits the brake, the three 'efforts to steer' are nothing of the sort, the bike is out of control at that point. He could have easily avoided the truck had he not panicked.
Instead of trying to over think things it sometimes pays to listen to experienced riders who have decades of experience of riding bloody quickly and sometimes over the limit, we are not all wet nosed kids on here
Instead of trying to over think things it sometimes pays to listen to experienced riders who have decades of experience of riding bloody quickly and sometimes over the limit, we are not all wet nosed kids on here
MrGman said:
Berty3000 said:
He clearly tries, three times, to steer the bike like a bicycle, in other words, the opposite of counter steering. In doing this, he man handles the bike away from the direction he was leaning. The bike tries to stand up three times as he does this (braking probably a factor too) and he undermines his lean, and his journey around the corner.
Errr a bicycle steers just like a motorcycle.Also how many people think what way to push/pull the bars when cornering? No one, anyone that can ride a bike around a corner will do so naturally, and even more so in a panic situation.
The guy in the video you posted did not once think what way to push/pull the bars when he saw that truck.
As for your last comment - this has already been discussed earlier. You're right, he doesn't think about it. That's part of the problem. So he defaults to a 'common sense' way if steering, which is that to steer left will make the bike turn left. That's the point of the video. Had he just continued to counter steer (in ignorance in his case) he'd have been OK, save for the braking.
Gavia said:
Read the bit below in bold. It’ll stand you in better stead than believing what you have done so far.
You are wrong though, take it from people who have a lot of experience.
Could you please elaborate? Because nothing I've said in this entire thread is at variance with what you will read in any book on the subject - apart from my use of the bicycle example which I have clarified.You are wrong though, take it from people who have a lot of experience.
Also, see my response to jazoli, which applies equally to yourself.
Berty3000 said:
Could you please elaborate? Because nothing I've said in this entire thread is at variance with what you will read in any book on the subject - apart from my use of the bicycle example which I have clarified.
Also, see my response to jazoli, which applies equally to yourself.
In the warmer months there are often NW rideouts organised on here. Pop along to one of them and see how is old timers get on with our riding, you might be surprised. Also, see my response to jazoli, which applies equally to yourself.
I can Beep my horn and indicate to turn from a dual carriageway down or up a slip while balancing on the back wheel at over 100 mph, pushing or pulling the bars doesn't help much in those instances.
I know about pulling or pushing handlebars or weighting footrests or moving body position to make bikes turn, doing all those at once is sometimes tricky
I have also been in many difficult positions that have resulted in crashes, I have seen lots of crashes, I have seen friends take their last breath due to crashes.
Not sure what point I'm trying to make other than I do have a little bit of knowledge that formed my opinion on the cruiser that panicked braked and crashed head on into the lorry.
No sign of counter steering in that video.
I know about pulling or pushing handlebars or weighting footrests or moving body position to make bikes turn, doing all those at once is sometimes tricky
I have also been in many difficult positions that have resulted in crashes, I have seen lots of crashes, I have seen friends take their last breath due to crashes.
Not sure what point I'm trying to make other than I do have a little bit of knowledge that formed my opinion on the cruiser that panicked braked and crashed head on into the lorry.
No sign of counter steering in that video.
Gavia said:
Berty3000 said:
He panics and brakes for sure, but the video also, in slow motion, clearly shows him trying to steer incorrectly, which leads him into the path of the truck. Of course, the other problem is that he didn't approach the corner correctly in the first place - i.e. Too fast considering he didn't seem to know what was around there.
What you’re seeing in slow motion is someone trying to regain control of a bike after momentarily locking the front wheel, the bike is steering him, rather than the other way around. He could easily have made it round that corner, if he hadn’t stared at the truck and the panicked.
Berty3000 said:
We'll have to agree to disagree I think. I'm with the people who made the video. Lots of discussion on the YouTube page.
They didn't make the video, they didn't pay for a stuntman, lorry or film crew, they used a video of someones accident.Lots of people on u tube use others peoples video's and make claims as to what has happened rightly or wrongly.
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