I see a punter who has a confirmed V4SS Norton order on eBay
Discussion
Norton are already aware of the sale.
My understanding is there's no legal basis and in any case I'd have thought it'd be a waste of time/money and frankly embarrassing if they started suing their customers -- we have no idea why this chap is selling -- hard times, illness, whatever -- who's to judge him?
Also, if these things are appreciating like that it'll do Norton's reputation no harm at all for that to be well known. Look at the Porsche GT cars and Ferrari limited production stuff.
What's kind of annoying I suppose is genuine people who want to buy one of these things to enjoy being priced out of the market and nudged off the list by speculators (case in point me and GT3RS I'm not bitter...) but there's always a V4RR if you want the riding experience, although I suppose there's a bit of a waiting list there, at least you'll probably get one easily enough.
My understanding is there's no legal basis and in any case I'd have thought it'd be a waste of time/money and frankly embarrassing if they started suing their customers -- we have no idea why this chap is selling -- hard times, illness, whatever -- who's to judge him?
Also, if these things are appreciating like that it'll do Norton's reputation no harm at all for that to be well known. Look at the Porsche GT cars and Ferrari limited production stuff.
What's kind of annoying I suppose is genuine people who want to buy one of these things to enjoy being priced out of the market and nudged off the list by speculators (case in point me and GT3RS I'm not bitter...) but there's always a V4RR if you want the riding experience, although I suppose there's a bit of a waiting list there, at least you'll probably get one easily enough.
Zoot_C said:
supercommuter said:
Why? They aren't breaking the law.
If someone wants to flip it then so be it. It is annoying but its a bit lame dobbing on someone.
I wasn't quite meaning, or seeing it that way. When the original emails went out inviting prospective buyers to purchase the first Superlegerra from Ducati, when agreement was made there were clauses about this very thing including a 'no resale within 12 months' one. In fact the people who received the invite ( or sales pitch if you prefer) had already been vetted by Ducati to ensure that they were the 'right kind' of people who would be a credit to the brand. To stop a certain kind of profit Ducati will no longer let a prestige bike be sold to a customer unregistered to stop these bikes ending up on ebay at huge prices ( it didn't quite work because a lot of dealers ordered them in house then just sold them to the first guy who came in with the cash ). . That again does not stop dealers doing it but I happen to know that some very big names have been threatened with losing their franchise for their behaviour, because the dealers are not Ducati, they are private entities licensed to sell a product.If someone wants to flip it then so be it. It is annoying but its a bit lame dobbing on someone.
Ferrari do similar and if you are on a waiting list for new vehicles there is a strict no transferable clause in there and all manner of clauses about what you can and can't do, including immediate resale. And Ferrari will never sell you another new vehicle for the rest of your life if you piss them off. ( I'm sure that's no hardship to 99.9% of us but I use it to make a point).
So when I said I'd have a chat with Stuart I meant just that, to wonder if they had done anything similar because none of these people look kindly on outright profiteering. It's one thing to decide you can no longer afford a thing and pass it on where available but to try and sell your place in a queue that has as yet cost you nothing and at a huge markup? Well, I know how it looks to me.
It'd be good marketing on their side if they happened to advertise it themselves (not that I'm saying they did)
After-all, Ducati love to tell people that their special bikes are invite only, but any Joe Bloggs off the street can phone a dealer and order one if they're quick enough to get one of the dealers early allocation
Prof Prolapse said:
Krikkit said:
If they are flat out you're probably right, but how long would it take a marketeer to sit down and make a few email-worthy notes on a component? 10 minutes? 20?
It hardly needs to be brain surgery, and a screenshot from a render, maybe a photo during machining/finishing and the finished article on a prototype bike would be all you'd need.
Maybe.It hardly needs to be brain surgery, and a screenshot from a render, maybe a photo during machining/finishing and the finished article on a prototype bike would be all you'd need.
I just keep thinking of an explanation I read many years ago in "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance", which has been echo'd by my engineering friends since, where the author explains that the only person they can afford to pull of the job to write the instructions, is the s
ttest person there. That's why instructions are usually st.I can't help but wonder if press releases in smaller companies are the same. In which case, you'd probably rather they just got on with it!
I sold my place a month ago for what I paid for it, after 7 months, 9 unresponded calls and 28 unanswered emails.
I had previously owned a Dominator SS (number 114, stat fans) and that came with much the same pre-purchase fecklessness/ ownership experience. I’ve now totally lost faith that the bike will arrive anywhere near on time/ at all. After all, if they’re going to be useless BEFORE they’ve got my money, what will they be like once they have it? If my Domi ownership experience and the pre-ownership experience of the V4 is anything to go by, your money is better elsewhere. Which is exactly what I’ve done.
It’s also worth remembering that Norton still have quite a lot of these bikes unsold/ unordered (Norton told me this last month), so buying a place for a premium is nuts. Indeed, the idea that these bikes will command massive premiums at all/ forever is also pretty nuts. People will always try it on, but as the instance sighted in the OP shows, asking isn’t getting. The people who are still asking anywhere near the original price on the Dominator/ Domiracer- let alone a higher premium- still have their bikes on sale 2 years later.
I had previously owned a Dominator SS (number 114, stat fans) and that came with much the same pre-purchase fecklessness/ ownership experience. I’ve now totally lost faith that the bike will arrive anywhere near on time/ at all. After all, if they’re going to be useless BEFORE they’ve got my money, what will they be like once they have it? If my Domi ownership experience and the pre-ownership experience of the V4 is anything to go by, your money is better elsewhere. Which is exactly what I’ve done.
It’s also worth remembering that Norton still have quite a lot of these bikes unsold/ unordered (Norton told me this last month), so buying a place for a premium is nuts. Indeed, the idea that these bikes will command massive premiums at all/ forever is also pretty nuts. People will always try it on, but as the instance sighted in the OP shows, asking isn’t getting. The people who are still asking anywhere near the original price on the Dominator/ Domiracer- let alone a higher premium- still have their bikes on sale 2 years later.
My experience is the opposite. Emails are responded to same day, sms the same and factory tours have been organised for me to look around and one personal tour by a director, where we were looking at everything.
Just today I got my latest email although it didn't say much because I know there are some sensitive announcements about to be made.
In fact as I typed this I see davo no longer on the Norton this year, there's rumours around McG and if he gets on it there's a chance of a podium.
No, maybe their PR isn't brilliant but this V4SS is a special piece of gear and looks very much like it's going to be turning a wheel summer/autumn, in my opinion.
Just today I got my latest email although it didn't say much because I know there are some sensitive announcements about to be made.
In fact as I typed this I see davo no longer on the Norton this year, there's rumours around McG and if he gets on it there's a chance of a podium.
No, maybe their PR isn't brilliant but this V4SS is a special piece of gear and looks very much like it's going to be turning a wheel summer/autumn, in my opinion.
Gizmo750 said:
It's such a shame that there is nothing in terms of updates / news coming out of the factory on their progress. People that have had deposits down for over a year are still no nearer to understanding when their bike might arrive.
They're just repeating exactly what they've always done, aren't they? They know they'll still sell whatever they produce so they don't seem interested in giving more than basic customer service. (Is how it appears).The Ducati sure looks nice and has the advantage of being here now and going extremely well from the tests I've seen. Norton is handmade though and with a 1200cc V4 probably making at least as much power or more (if that's important at the 200bhp realm!) it's to my mind an entirely different league.
Also, you'll see Ducatis posing outside the chipshop and every biker meet wherever you go, but the Norton is going to be incredibly rare and interesting, should that be a factor.
Also, you'll see Ducatis posing outside the chipshop and every biker meet wherever you go, but the Norton is going to be incredibly rare and interesting, should that be a factor.
supermono said:
Also, you'll see Ducatis posing outside the chipshop and every biker meet wherever you go, but the Norton is going to be incredibly rare and interesting, should that be a factor.
Thats because they will be late delivering them, and the ones they do will breakdown all the time 
supermono said:
My experience is the opposite. Emails are responded to same day, sms the same and factory tours have been organised for me to look around and one personal tour by a director, where we were looking at everything.
That makes nervous's experience look even worse to me. Looks like they play favourites or it's pot luck who takes ownership of you as a customer. Really shoddy.Pothole said:
That makes nervous's experience look even worse to me. Looks like they play favourites or it's pot luck who takes ownership of you as a customer. Really shoddy.
I feel exactly the same way. And again, if this is the duty of care before they get your cash, what will it be like once they have it?
We have people monitoring emails, v4 customers have a specific email and of course a sales team to answer calls. If there has been a failing in the system anywhere (28 unanswered emails suggests something isn't right) I would very much appreciate you letting me know so I can investigate. If we owe you an apology I will give you one personally.
Thank you for your help
Thank you for your help
Pothole said:
That makes nervous's experience look even worse to me. Looks like they play favourites or it's pot luck who takes ownership of you as a customer. Really shoddy.
I'm no favourite, just a punter like everyone else -- first anyone at Norton knew of me was when I phoned up to place my order. I've no connection with the factory at all. They've dealt with me fine and as described.I would imagine that your experience is probably the unusual one given how easy it's been for me, but I can only report my own experiences.
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