Specific recommendation on bike - Touring and Track
Discussion
3DP said:
Some lovely responses here. I get where most are coming from, although it is funny reading Black-K1 arguing for a chain drive 160bhp KTM and Spareparts arguing that a fat shafty BM with 125bhp is all you need.... 
Anyhoo FWIW, my 2 pence:
With a modified H2, most other things will feel flaccid, so perhaps character, practicality and fun need to be important.
I'm very close to buying an MT10 new at the moment. With a comfort seat they are all day comfortable, they are laugh out loud fun, have a decent slug of power, but more importantly feel like they are over-engined, without being a hand full like an 1198. They can be tailored for track or touring use too, with as Andybow says, just the shuffling around of a few accessories. That firmly ticks the fun and versatile boxes.
Chipchap makes some good points and the latest BMWs with excellent TFTs, quality feel, ease of use and competent dealers. I very much look forward to buying one when I am 60 and just want something with turn key all day ease (not a criticism, just changing priorities as you get older). BMWs are pretty much the only bikes you can buy that give you a Porsche or Mercedes ownership feel from what I can see. That holistic sales and support experience.
However if you are touring or hustling around mountains, a race track or a fast bit of road, that's a bit irrelevent at the time and whether you need more than 125bhp or not, I personally use the extra a lot and like it. 125bhp and 225kg+ just lacks a bit of.... fizz... once you have sampled bikes with sub 200kg wet weights and 150+bhp. That fizz is what I buy fun bikes for. I believe you had a Speed Triple, as did I and if you found the top end a bit flat and the bike a little portly, I can only imaging the BMWs will be that and then some.
Anyhoo FWIW, my 2 pence:
With a modified H2, most other things will feel flaccid, so perhaps character, practicality and fun need to be important.
I'm very close to buying an MT10 new at the moment. With a comfort seat they are all day comfortable, they are laugh out loud fun, have a decent slug of power, but more importantly feel like they are over-engined, without being a hand full like an 1198. They can be tailored for track or touring use too, with as Andybow says, just the shuffling around of a few accessories. That firmly ticks the fun and versatile boxes.
Chipchap makes some good points and the latest BMWs with excellent TFTs, quality feel, ease of use and competent dealers. I very much look forward to buying one when I am 60 and just want something with turn key all day ease (not a criticism, just changing priorities as you get older). BMWs are pretty much the only bikes you can buy that give you a Porsche or Mercedes ownership feel from what I can see. That holistic sales and support experience.
However if you are touring or hustling around mountains, a race track or a fast bit of road, that's a bit irrelevent at the time and whether you need more than 125bhp or not, I personally use the extra a lot and like it. 125bhp and 225kg+ just lacks a bit of.... fizz... once you have sampled bikes with sub 200kg wet weights and 150+bhp. That fizz is what I buy fun bikes for. I believe you had a Speed Triple, as did I and if you found the top end a bit flat and the bike a little portly, I can only imaging the BMWs will be that and then some.
Matt already has an H2 with more power than anything else. He doesn't need more power, and he's looking for something to tour/scratch on!
And trust me, 130hp with 90+ftlbs is all you need for some serious fun wringing it out over distance!
So don't go slagging me, cos you just admitted...
3DP said:
Saying all this, I rode an Africa Twin Adventure sports recently and loved it!! 100bhp and 230kg, but bags of character!
See you in Spain
Maybe on the supernaked, maybe on the fat shafty BMW
you lot are making it difficult for me now. To many ideas going around my head and the idea of a naked first made me thought no for touring but again something I will look into
I'm going to look at the NEC show, have a sit see what I like then see what is in my budget and go from there.
But again many thanks for the feedback and as Ade said with my H2 i'm not looking for another bike just something else to fit my ideal of a second bike
Maybe less weight than the Busa and ZZR1400/GT. I liked the less wind blast from the Street Glide and why I was not thinking of a naked as a good sports tourer
And Yes I had a 08 Speed triple
I'm going to look at the NEC show, have a sit see what I like then see what is in my budget and go from there.
But again many thanks for the feedback and as Ade said with my H2 i'm not looking for another bike just something else to fit my ideal of a second bike
Maybe less weight than the Busa and ZZR1400/GT. I liked the less wind blast from the Street Glide and why I was not thinking of a naked as a good sports tourer
And Yes I had a 08 Speed triple
RemaL said:
you lot are making it difficult for me now. To many ideas going around my head and the idea of a naked first made me thought no for touring but again something I will look into
I'm going to look at the NEC show, have a sit see what I like then see what is in my budget and go from there.
But again many thanks for the feedback and as Ade said with my H2 i'm not looking for another bike just something else to fit my ideal of a second bike
Maybe less weight than the Busa and ZZR1400/GT. I liked the less wind blast from the Street Glide and why I was not thinking of a naked as a good sports tourer
And Yes I had a 08 Speed triple
I'm going to look at the NEC show, have a sit see what I like then see what is in my budget and go from there.
But again many thanks for the feedback and as Ade said with my H2 i'm not looking for another bike just something else to fit my ideal of a second bike
Maybe less weight than the Busa and ZZR1400/GT. I liked the less wind blast from the Street Glide and why I was not thinking of a naked as a good sports tourer
And Yes I had a 08 Speed triple
We don't want to make it easy. It's far more fun when it's difficult!
I hope you enjoy trying all the options.
black-k1 said:
RemaL said:
you lot are making it difficult for me now. To many ideas going around my head and the idea of a naked first made me thought no for touring but again something I will look into
I'm going to look at the NEC show, have a sit see what I like then see what is in my budget and go from there.
But again many thanks for the feedback and as Ade said with my H2 i'm not looking for another bike just something else to fit my ideal of a second bike
Maybe less weight than the Busa and ZZR1400/GT. I liked the less wind blast from the Street Glide and why I was not thinking of a naked as a good sports tourer
And Yes I had a 08 Speed triple
I'm going to look at the NEC show, have a sit see what I like then see what is in my budget and go from there.
But again many thanks for the feedback and as Ade said with my H2 i'm not looking for another bike just something else to fit my ideal of a second bike
Maybe less weight than the Busa and ZZR1400/GT. I liked the less wind blast from the Street Glide and why I was not thinking of a naked as a good sports tourer
And Yes I had a 08 Speed triple
We don't want to make it easy. It's far more fun when it's difficult!
I hope you enjoy trying all the options.
I don't ever rush into buying something to make sure it suits me and also something I will enjoy for years,
in 13 years of riding i've only owned 4 bikes. Ridden many more. 600 Fazer, Speed Triple, Blade and H2.
And to tell you the truth I have been enjoying touring more than trackdays.
I get a lot of feedback from a chap called Fazer Phil. Many people may know him and i've know hi for years before he became the President of the Uk Iron Butt rallys. And knowing he will tour for a long weekend and do 2-5k in the 3-5 days with little more than a top box I know I don't need lots of room for luggage.
Doing the TT this year and my US HD Tour (which I'm still buzzing about) I want a second bike I can use most of the year and not worry about unlike the H2 which is never hardly out of my sight.
RemaL said:
Why I like to get feedback and suggestions from you lot. To allow me to think outside the box and look into other bikes I may have not given a thought to.
I don't ever rush into buying something to make sure it suits me and also something I will enjoy for years,
in 13 years of riding i've only owned 4 bikes. Ridden many more. 600 Fazer, Speed Triple, Blade and H2.
And to tell you the truth I have been enjoying touring more than trackdays.
I get a lot of feedback from a chap called Fazer Phil. Many people may know him and i've know hi for years before he became the President of the Uk Iron Butt rallys. And knowing he will tour for a long weekend and do 2-5k in the 3-5 days with little more than a top box I know I don't need lots of room for luggage.
Doing the TT this year and my US HD Tour (which I'm still buzzing about) I want a second bike I can use most of the year and not worry about unlike the H2 which is never hardly out of my sight.
... and the "problem" with touring is it means so many different things to so many different people. For some, like your friend, 2-5k on a long weekend is fun. To others it's hell! Some won't touch motorways with a barge poll, others want to spend time on the autobahns answering "what can it do mister?" Some want to take the kitchen sink and others want are happy to wear the same clothes for a week. (They tend to tour solo!"! I don't ever rush into buying something to make sure it suits me and also something I will enjoy for years,
in 13 years of riding i've only owned 4 bikes. Ridden many more. 600 Fazer, Speed Triple, Blade and H2.
And to tell you the truth I have been enjoying touring more than trackdays.
I get a lot of feedback from a chap called Fazer Phil. Many people may know him and i've know hi for years before he became the President of the Uk Iron Butt rallys. And knowing he will tour for a long weekend and do 2-5k in the 3-5 days with little more than a top box I know I don't need lots of room for luggage.
Doing the TT this year and my US HD Tour (which I'm still buzzing about) I want a second bike I can use most of the year and not worry about unlike the H2 which is never hardly out of my sight.
) Some want to see the sights and enjoy the culture, others want to ride the roads.Each of those options creates a slightly different set of requirements for the "best bike for the job" and means you may have to decide if you want a bike that does one or more of those tasks really well but that the expense of others, or if you want an all rounder that can do them all, but is best at none of them. (That's what the GS is really good at!)
Like you, when buying a bike, I take time to consider the options, look at the requirements and understand the compromises. It does make deciding a whole lot harder but it does mean that you are generally very happy with the bike you choose.
If you can "Tour" with a back pack then that opens up a whole raft of options. I did Nürburgring and back on my Tuono V4R and loved it but that was only 3 or 4 days so a back pack was fine. I also did 14 days/3000 miles on my 1050 Speed Triple with a set of SW Motech soft panniers and a seat top bag.
Done 8 days/2200 miles on my Red/Silver MV to The Pyrenees and 12 days/1900 miles on my White/Black MV to Portugal both with Kriega 30 on..
So any bike can be toured on by any person. A good compromise may just be a 1290GT KTM as if you junk the bags you certainly could have fun on track days or when out touring if you leave the luggage behind.
I think the first thing to do is set a budget. Then see what fits in the budget. Then weight it towards what you want from the bike the most.
So say £8000--Many bikes--70% Track day and scratching 30% touring. Then an Aprillia V4R APRC ABS fits that bill nicely, as does a BMW S1000R or Yamaha MT10 etc
Done 8 days/2200 miles on my Red/Silver MV to The Pyrenees and 12 days/1900 miles on my White/Black MV to Portugal both with Kriega 30 on..
So any bike can be toured on by any person. A good compromise may just be a 1290GT KTM as if you junk the bags you certainly could have fun on track days or when out touring if you leave the luggage behind.
I think the first thing to do is set a budget. Then see what fits in the budget. Then weight it towards what you want from the bike the most.
So say £8000--Many bikes--70% Track day and scratching 30% touring. Then an Aprillia V4R APRC ABS fits that bill nicely, as does a BMW S1000R or Yamaha MT10 etc
spareparts said:
3DP said:
Some lovely responses here. I get where most are coming from, although it is funny reading Black-K1 arguing for a chain drive 160bhp KTM and Spareparts arguing that a fat shafty BM with 125bhp is all you need....
Anyhoo FWIW, my 2 pence:
With a modified H2, most other things will feel flaccid, so perhaps character, practicality and fun need to be important.
I'm very close to buying an MT10 new at the moment. With a comfort seat they are all day comfortable, they are laugh out loud fun, have a decent slug of power, but more importantly feel like they are over-engined, without being a hand full like an 1198. They can be tailored for track or touring use too, with as Andybow says, just the shuffling around of a few accessories. That firmly ticks the fun and versatile boxes.
Chipchap makes some good points and the latest BMWs with excellent TFTs, quality feel, ease of use and competent dealers. I very much look forward to buying one when I am 60 and just want something with turn key all day ease (not a criticism, just changing priorities as you get older). BMWs are pretty much the only bikes you can buy that give you a Porsche or Mercedes ownership feel from what I can see. That holistic sales and support experience.
However if you are touring or hustling around mountains, a race track or a fast bit of road, that's a bit irrelevent at the time and whether you need more than 125bhp or not, I personally use the extra a lot and like it. 125bhp and 225kg+ just lacks a bit of.... fizz... once you have sampled bikes with sub 200kg wet weights and 150+bhp. That fizz is what I buy fun bikes for. I believe you had a Speed Triple, as did I and if you found the top end a bit flat and the bike a little portly, I can only imaging the BMWs will be that and then some.
Anyhoo FWIW, my 2 pence:
With a modified H2, most other things will feel flaccid, so perhaps character, practicality and fun need to be important.
I'm very close to buying an MT10 new at the moment. With a comfort seat they are all day comfortable, they are laugh out loud fun, have a decent slug of power, but more importantly feel like they are over-engined, without being a hand full like an 1198. They can be tailored for track or touring use too, with as Andybow says, just the shuffling around of a few accessories. That firmly ticks the fun and versatile boxes.
Chipchap makes some good points and the latest BMWs with excellent TFTs, quality feel, ease of use and competent dealers. I very much look forward to buying one when I am 60 and just want something with turn key all day ease (not a criticism, just changing priorities as you get older). BMWs are pretty much the only bikes you can buy that give you a Porsche or Mercedes ownership feel from what I can see. That holistic sales and support experience.
However if you are touring or hustling around mountains, a race track or a fast bit of road, that's a bit irrelevent at the time and whether you need more than 125bhp or not, I personally use the extra a lot and like it. 125bhp and 225kg+ just lacks a bit of.... fizz... once you have sampled bikes with sub 200kg wet weights and 150+bhp. That fizz is what I buy fun bikes for. I believe you had a Speed Triple, as did I and if you found the top end a bit flat and the bike a little portly, I can only imaging the BMWs will be that and then some.
Matt already has an H2 with more power than anything else. He doesn't need more power, and he's looking for something to tour/scratch on!
And trust me, 130hp with 90+ftlbs is all you need for some serious fun wringing it out over distance!
So don't go slagging me, cos you just admitted...
3DP said:
Saying all this, I rode an Africa Twin Adventure sports recently and loved it!! 100bhp and 230kg, but bags of character!
See you in Spain
Maybe on the supernaked, maybe on the fat shafty BMW
Chipchap said:
If you can "Tour" with a back pack then that opens up a whole raft of options. I did Nürburgring and back on my Tuono V4R and loved it but that was only 3 or 4 days so a back pack was fine. I also did 14 days/3000 miles on my 1050 Speed Triple with a set of SW Motech soft panniers and a seat top bag.
Done 8 days/2200 miles on my Red/Silver MV to The Pyrenees and 12 days/1900 miles on my White/Black MV to Portugal both with Kriega 30 on..
So any bike can be toured on by any person. A good compromise may just be a 1290GT KTM as if you junk the bags you certainly could have fun on track days or when out touring if you leave the luggage behind.
I think the first thing to do is set a budget. Then see what fits in the budget. Then weight it towards what you want from the bike the most.
So say £8000--Many bikes--70% Track day and scratching 30% touring. Then an Aprillia V4R APRC ABS fits that bill nicely, as does a BMW S1000R or Yamaha MT10 etc
I have a good set of soft Panniers that will fit 99% of bikes but not the H2 as it's single seat only. But also happy taking little and wearing the same gear Done 8 days/2200 miles on my Red/Silver MV to The Pyrenees and 12 days/1900 miles on my White/Black MV to Portugal both with Kriega 30 on..
So any bike can be toured on by any person. A good compromise may just be a 1290GT KTM as if you junk the bags you certainly could have fun on track days or when out touring if you leave the luggage behind.
I think the first thing to do is set a budget. Then see what fits in the budget. Then weight it towards what you want from the bike the most.
So say £8000--Many bikes--70% Track day and scratching 30% touring. Then an Aprillia V4R APRC ABS fits that bill nicely, as does a BMW S1000R or Yamaha MT10 etc
so i'm easy with that
RemaL said:
I want a second bike I can use most of the year and not worry about unlike the H2 which is never hardly out of my sight.
Giving this more thought, I really do think the R1200RS would be a great shout, especially when factoring in budget. I don’t even own one, but it speaks to all the factors you’re looking for with daily usability, low stand over height, integrated modcons, and performance to entertain over long distance. The new R1250RS is even nicer but out of budget, and there is the added benefit that more of the very capable 1200 version may come to market soon. KTMs are fashionable (with thieves too) and I am not convinced by them (yet) for either reliability, quality of finish, integration of modcons, or dealer network support. A new SD1290GT is out of the stated budget, and will inevitably get replaced/facelifted again as KTM seem to do every year to stay fashionable. Residuals are hit hard unlike BMW, and I just do not see them in remotely the same ballpark from a long term ownership proposition compared to a BMW. As a short term fling, however, they are very attractive.
Other contenders tend to be adv style bikes which I think you ruled out due to height/accessibility.
Andybow said:
Naked mate, track and tour no probs, they are all good , mt10 is a good bet as it’s comfy and there’s loads of options for luggage, £8k will get you a immaculate one as well, out of all the nakeds it was probably the best of the bunch of ours for touring.
Wasn’t as good on track as tuono etc but still great fun
I'm thinking of swapping the Sprint ST for an MT10 next year. I hear the valve check service is pricey...anyone know the service interval for these and likely cost?Wasn’t as good on track as tuono etc but still great fun
Edited by Andybow on Monday 12th November 18:13
CaptainSlow said:
I'm thinking of swapping the Sprint ST for an MT10 next year. I hear the valve check service is pricey...anyone know the service interval for these and likely cost?
Not sure on the valve check price but normal services are no expensive than any bike I’ve had, bullet proof engine for road work, very smooth at motorway speeds, feels like it’s ticking over unlike standard inline fours that feel like they need a few more gears when you’re cruising Valve clearnece is at 24k miles so won’t exactly break the bank
Tank range is a very good (if slightly dull) point to make. Ideally 200+ miles from a tank when I'm looking at bikes but the less trips to the petrol station when touring the better and when commuting it was a major factor in bike choice as it was down to 2 fill ups a week instead of 3. Sounds stupid but at either end of a bloody long day it's the last thing that you want to do.
I saw the new R1250RS and will be getting a test drive at some point. It's lost that squint eyed look that the old one had. The other suggestions are all really valid, it's just down to your style. As a 2nd bike I'd be looking at a total change of pace - Moto Guzzi V7iii or one of the new Royal Enfield twins (one of which looks really tasty) but then I don't do track days.
If you're a faster rider then the MT10 sounds like a generally better shout but for a more touring bias my money would be on the R1200RS.
I saw the new R1250RS and will be getting a test drive at some point. It's lost that squint eyed look that the old one had. The other suggestions are all really valid, it's just down to your style. As a 2nd bike I'd be looking at a total change of pace - Moto Guzzi V7iii or one of the new Royal Enfield twins (one of which looks really tasty) but then I don't do track days.
If you're a faster rider then the MT10 sounds like a generally better shout but for a more touring bias my money would be on the R1200RS.
Well after looking and sitting ay many bikes at the NEC yesterday I was surprised what bike I ended thinking I want to look into more and test ride.
IE a bike I felt comfy on at a good price that I would spend my money on.
MT-09 Tracer. light, comfy and surprisingly not difficult to get my leg over. I prefer it to the MT-09 which was a shock
Also looked at the ZZR1400, RS1250, Superduke GT and many more
IE a bike I felt comfy on at a good price that I would spend my money on.
MT-09 Tracer. light, comfy and surprisingly not difficult to get my leg over. I prefer it to the MT-09 which was a shock
Also looked at the ZZR1400, RS1250, Superduke GT and many more
RemaL said:
Well after looking and sitting ay many bikes at the NEC yesterday I was surprised what bike I ended thinking I want to look into more and test ride.
IE a bike I felt comfy on at a good price that I would spend my money on.
MT-09 Tracer. light, comfy and surprisingly not difficult to get my leg over. I prefer it to the MT-09 which was a shock
Also looked at the ZZR1400, RS1250, Superduke GT and many more
I spent some time on a Tracer when JBL owned one on here. The suspension is comedy awful making it hard to hold any kind of line in a bend when cracking on. The on/off throttle added to the mid corner pitching and yawing, plus epic ground outs of pegs if you hit bumps. Also felt cheap. I sat on a Tracer GT and I believe it's addressed most of the issues, but is $$$IE a bike I felt comfy on at a good price that I would spend my money on.
MT-09 Tracer. light, comfy and surprisingly not difficult to get my leg over. I prefer it to the MT-09 which was a shock
Also looked at the ZZR1400, RS1250, Superduke GT and many more
I'd test ride one, but I'd have an Africa twin all day over a Tracer, if only for the controlled suspension and lovely throttle response. The AT is also torquier where you need it and sounds more characterful, even though the MT09 Triple is a lovely engine.
As has been suggested, make sure you have a good long test ride on any/all possibilities. A good sports touring bike is one you can do a 500+ mile/12 hour day on then get up the next morning and want to ride all the mountain passes on. It's not just something you like sitting on at a show/in the showroom.
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