Insane buying a bike at 50?

[black-k1]

TheInternet said:

black-k1 said:

Various studies at the time and since have showed there was no correlation between engine power output and accident rates.

Any links? That's the complete opposite of what I've read, though perhaps it is the outcomes rather than rates that are significantly worse on higher powered bikes.

I've not had a lot of time to look and current reporting groups all motorcycles over 500cc together but this has some detail on page 27

http://www.righttoride.co.uk/virtuallibrary/riders...

[bigdog3]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Agreed - camber thrust is a function of lean angle instigated by weight shift on a pedal cycle

[Harji]

Do it, I passed at 46, don't even bother with a 125cc to learn on go straight to DAS after your CBT. From what I see, those on L -plates have the worst habits and riding style, so they don't learn anything and most probably fail multiple times, it's hard to break bad habits but if you go in as a clean slate you are going to absorb only good information .

My own background is I had not sat on an motorised two wheeler until my CBT, which I did on a scooter only. I then booked a couple of hours with a riding schoool for a geared bike lesson. Then straight onto MOD1 & 2 passing first time.

[Biker 1]

black-k1 said:

I've not had a lot of time to look and current reporting groups all motorcycles over 500cc together but this has some detail on page 27

http://www.righttoride.co.uk/virtuallibrary/riders...

Most bikes ridden by non-learners are over 500cc as shown in this study. Admittedly, I have only had time to briefly look at it, but I can't see any correlation between engine power & crashes....
If you ride a 125cc/15bhp or 1250cc/150bhp bike at 70mph into the side of a car that has pulled out in front of you, I suspect the end result would be similar.

[SpeckledJim]

bigdog3 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Agreed - camber thrust is a function of lean angle instigated by weight shift on a pedal cycle

Can of worms indeed!

The only way to turn a bike or motorbike without falling off to the outside is to move your centre of gravity inside the contact patch, and the way you make that happen is by moving the contact patch from underneath you toward the outside of the turn, by counter-steering. The only question is whether you are conscious you're doing it or not. I don't believe the principle is any different on a pushbike to a motorbike, just the weights are different.

[jdd]

I’m with many others - wish I’d done it sooner. Passed my test at 46, bought a Monster 696, then replaced with a 1200, then replaced with a SDGT, then added a Aprilia RSV4 RR. Doing my first track day in June. All within 3 years.

I think the benefits of doing this later in life is a) you likely can affford a better bike and better safer gear, b) you consider the consequences so don’t eide beyond your abilities and c) the years of driving and anticipating the other road users makes you a much safer rider.

Best of luck!

[8IKERDAVE]

A mates dad (who is now a good mate) did his bike test a couple of years ago aged 67! He now rides a 1700cc Harley and still rides trial bikes! Never too old, its down to your own mentality. I've got mates approaching 40 who say they're getting too old for sportsbikes now where as I'm in that bracket and can't see me owning any other style of bike.

[deltahotel]

I have just finished a 7 day DAS course with BMW at the ripe old age of 47 (with a starting point of little experience of bike, let alone geared ones) and looking forward to my first bike.

Do it

[boxst]

Thank you all for the comments and advice. I spent my 50th Birthday (last Tuesday) having a look at bikes. So CBT will be booked for next week and then I will buy a 125cc something or other, second hand as I'm not sure I want to commit £5K yet.

Any recommendations for a bike?

[underwhelmist]

boxst said:

Thank you all for the comments and advice. I spent my 50th Birthday (last Tuesday) having a look at bikes. So CBT will be booked for next week and then I will buy a 125cc something or other, second hand as I'm not sure I want to commit £5K yet.

Any recommendations for a bike?

If you want a recommendation for a 125 I think the best advice is get something secondhand and Japanese - YBR125, CG125, something like that. You will almost certainly get your money back when you come to sell. You could maybe get a brand new Chinese bike for the same money but it will depreciate like a stone.

You don't need to commit £5k to get a bigger bike though, there are any number of older decent 600s around for £2k or less.

[bigdog3]

boxst said:

I spent my 50th Birthday (last Tuesday) having a look at bikes. So CBT will be booked for next week and then I will buy a 125cc something or other, second hand as I'm not sure I want to commit £5K yet.

Sorry for my ignorance, but process was much simpler when I started back in 1969. Learnt on a 250 then immediately progressed to a bigger bike - 650 in my case.

Doesn't Direct Access allow mature riders to jump from CBT to a medium weight or big bike without going through the 125 stage? Bigger bikes are much easier to ride so why bother with a 125 at all? Lower powered 600s are really docile and great first bikes

[Mr Tidy]

boxst said:

Thank you all for the comments and advice. I spent my 50th Birthday (last Tuesday) having a look at bikes. So CBT will be booked for next week and then I will buy a 125cc something or other, second hand as I'm not sure I want to commit £5K yet.

Any recommendations for a bike?

Great news boxst! I hope it all goes well!

Although it certainly was much easier 40+ years ago. I had to endure a year of misery on a moped from 1975 to 1976, then got a Honda CB175 and rode around the block in both directions without falling off or hitting the examiner so the world was my oyster - but I passed my car test the next day and bought a car a few months later!

My best mate had a school class-mate with an FS1E who borrowed a 250 (Suzuki I think) for his test, passed it and bought a Z900 the same day - that was pretty impressive in 1976!

My same mate went to university and got engaged so had other interests.

I ended up visiting Box Hill and similar venues with his younger brother who had an RD250e with spannies when I had my RD350B - highlight of that era was getting pulled on the Mickies between Dorking and Leatherhead when it had a proper speed limit and getting a "talking to" by the BIBs! ops:

Then his brother took his test, passed it and placed an order for a Z650F2 the same day.

So I took a Fiat to Godfreys of Cheam who for some reason were a Fiat and Kawasaki dealership and P/Ex'd it for a Z650 C2!

But that Z650 handled like a bendy thing - an RD was much better, as I found out when I got an RD 250LC!

I'll be getting free prescriptions next week, so am a decade ahead of you - just enjoy every day like it's your last!

[Zakalwe]

bigdog3 said:

Sorry for my ignorance, but process was much simpler when I started back in 1969. Learnt on a 250 then immediately progressed to a bigger bike - 650 in my case.

Doesn't Direct Access allow mature riders to jump from CBT to a medium weight or big bike without going through the 125 stage? Bigger bikes are much easier to ride so why bother with a 125 at all? Lower powered 600s are really docile and great first bikes

CBT allows you to ride a 125 with L plates for two years without taking a theory or practical. Completing the DAS after that will let you ride any capacity

[bigdog3]

Zakalwe said:

CBT allows you to ride a 125 with L plates for two years without taking a theory or practical. Completing the DAS after that will let you ride any capacity

Thanks - inspired me to research DAS. You can skip 125s

You can get your full (category A) motorcycle licence using the direct access scheme (DAS) if you’re aged 24 or over. You’ll have to pass the motorcycle practical tests on a machine of at least 40 kW (53.6 bhp).

Taking direct access means you’ll have a full motorcycle licence without previously holding a licence for a smaller bike for two years – you’ll have no restriction on the size of machine you can ride.

While you’re practising for direct access, you can use any size of motorbike bigger than a learner motorbike...

[bigdog3]

Mr Tidy said:

...then got a Honda CB175 and rode around the block in both directions without falling off or hitting the examiner so the world was my oyster...

When the examiner hid behind a car and jumped out in front of you for the emergency braking stop. But you could work out where he was, by the feet under the car

[SpeckledJim]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Still the same thing. You’re still manipulating the position of your centre of gravity relative to the contact patch of the bike. You’re just controlling the movement of the handlebars with your hips instead of your hands. Harder to do, obviously, but the principle is the same.

[bigdog3]

SpeckledJim said:

You’re still manipulating the position of your centre of gravity relative to the contact patch of the bike. You’re just controlling the movement of the handlebars with your hips instead of your hands. Harder to do, obviously, but the principle is the same.

The ways in which an aircraft and motorbike/bicycle turn are analogous. To maintain equilibrium (ie balance) when cornering, the resultant force direction (vector sum of weight mgh and centripetal force mv^2/r) must be perpendicular to their frames (with minor adjustment if mass centre is displaced laterally).

[SpeckledJim]

bigdog3 said:

SpeckledJim said:

You’re still manipulating the position of your centre of gravity relative to the contact patch of the bike. You’re just controlling the movement of the handlebars with your hips instead of your hands. Harder to do, obviously, but the principle is the same.

The ways in which an aircraft and motorbike/bicycle turn are analogous. To maintain equilibrium (ie balance) when cornering, the resultant force direction (vector sum of weight mgh and centripetal force mv^2/r) must be perpendicular to their frames (with minor adjustment if mass centre is displaced laterally).

But you haven’t got flaps to spontaneously initiate a turn on a bike. You have to use the handlebars to unbalance yourself, to allow gravity to start to tip you over. Then you use the handlebars again to ‘catch up’ with your fall. Then you can find a new balanced turning equilibrium, as with an aircraft.

[bigdog3]

SpeckledJim said:

But you haven’t got flaps to spontaneously initiate a turn on a bike. You have to use the handlebars to unbalance yourself, to allow gravity to start to tip you over. Then you use the handlebars again to ‘catch up’ with your fall. Then you can find a new balanced turning equilibrium, as with an aircraft.

An aircraft uses ailerons to turn, balanced by the rudder to overcome adverse yaw. Flaps are used to increase lift at the expense of more drag, by altering the wing cord line. Flaps can also be used to adjust glide angle for approach on landing.

You don't have to use the handle bars to initiate turn on a bike. Weight shift alone will cause the bike to bank, like a hang glider. But that's far more effective on a pedal cycle because the rider's mass dominates unlike a motorbike. Hence on a motorbike, counter-steering has a more significant role in establishing bank angle.

[bigdog3]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Probably not when pedal cycling because weight shift alone is sufficient to initiate bank (and consequently turn)