New commuting rider - loads of questions!
Discussion
After some welcomed advice to not be a knob considering a 100 mile a day commute on a 125 scoot - I've had a 2hr intro lesson, have my CBT and theory booked, and planning DAS as soon as possible...
Local (to work) dealer P&H have been utterly superb.
However, looking for some impartial advice.
Going to be doing around 12-15k a year, weather dependant. Everything realistically down to 2-3C or monsoon I'll be on the bike leaving the car for the better half.
The Hondas seem to be pulling me - seem higher build quality, and there's a few that fit (stumpy 28" legs...).
Thoughts between Rebel/CB500F/CB650F?
Love the look of the Rebel, could see me getting a rear fabricated with cut down fender and dry bag holder masquerading as a sissy bar. No weather protection though...
Cb500f then - bit more weather protection, seemed comfy, not a fan of the looks though!
Do like the looks of the 650F... Bit more expensive (not a huge issue - I spend over £500 a month on fuel at the moment!) but perhaps more 'grown up' and the next step on in engine/electronics/etc.? Too much though?
Now kit - better to get one good textile 2 piece 3 season setup matched with loads of base layers (something like the Dainese Carve Master 2?) or two cheaper sets?
Recommendations for boots? Gloves - heated, or go with heated grips? Two sets - summer and full waterproof winter?
Local (to work) dealer P&H have been utterly superb.
However, looking for some impartial advice.
Going to be doing around 12-15k a year, weather dependant. Everything realistically down to 2-3C or monsoon I'll be on the bike leaving the car for the better half.
The Hondas seem to be pulling me - seem higher build quality, and there's a few that fit (stumpy 28" legs...).
Thoughts between Rebel/CB500F/CB650F?
Love the look of the Rebel, could see me getting a rear fabricated with cut down fender and dry bag holder masquerading as a sissy bar. No weather protection though...
Cb500f then - bit more weather protection, seemed comfy, not a fan of the looks though!
Do like the looks of the 650F... Bit more expensive (not a huge issue - I spend over £500 a month on fuel at the moment!) but perhaps more 'grown up' and the next step on in engine/electronics/etc.? Too much though?
Now kit - better to get one good textile 2 piece 3 season setup matched with loads of base layers (something like the Dainese Carve Master 2?) or two cheaper sets?
Recommendations for boots? Gloves - heated, or go with heated grips? Two sets - summer and full waterproof winter?
If you are genuinely serious about commuting most of the year then I would consider these three things are important (I commute 15k a year and it has to be -2 or less before i take the car)
1) weather protection - not an issue at the moment but once it turns colder a massive screen, hand guards, heated grips, bar muffs (yeah i know) make all the difference
2) tank range, the bigger the range the better, stopping for fuel every day will get tiresome fast.
3) reliable but not flashy, you will not want to use a decent bike come winter as the salt will make it scabby despite your efforts to keep it clean.
1) weather protection - not an issue at the moment but once it turns colder a massive screen, hand guards, heated grips, bar muffs (yeah i know) make all the difference
2) tank range, the bigger the range the better, stopping for fuel every day will get tiresome fast.
3) reliable but not flashy, you will not want to use a decent bike come winter as the salt will make it scabby despite your efforts to keep it clean.
Having ridden the CB650F (which I loved by the way) I'm not sure I'd want to commute THAT much with it. I'd go for a twin for the MPG benefit and hopefully more useful torque.
Also seconded that at that mileage you'll be destroying the value of the bike. I personally would be inclined to go for something used, where someone else has paid the depreciation; bikes don't tend to suffer as much as cars once they're over that initial 'PCP' age. I understand the dealer warranty appeal though.
Kit wise I can't comment too much, don't mind the cold but try to avoid the rain if I can. Best thing I got was glove-liners (wouldn't believe the difference), heated grips and super cheap ski stuff from places like Aldi or decathlon (leggings, ski socks, mid layer etc)
Also seconded that at that mileage you'll be destroying the value of the bike. I personally would be inclined to go for something used, where someone else has paid the depreciation; bikes don't tend to suffer as much as cars once they're over that initial 'PCP' age. I understand the dealer warranty appeal though.
Kit wise I can't comment too much, don't mind the cold but try to avoid the rain if I can. Best thing I got was glove-liners (wouldn't believe the difference), heated grips and super cheap ski stuff from places like Aldi or decathlon (leggings, ski socks, mid layer etc)
the bike is your choice
as someone who uses their bike for work i recommend you buy the best you can afford and get several sets or pairs; just 'cause its goretex means f' all, if they are still wet in the morning or the tab has bust you're stuck
look at other pastimes/sports for base layers and waterproofs they are cheaper but do the same job
just because it's expensive does not mean its good quality - i have sent two pairs of air n dry gloves by held back because the stitching failed in a few days; givi top box lock failed; Daytona boot zip pull failed twice, rukka press stubs failed on trousers, furygan press studs failed heated clothing controller failed
just cause it has a green triangle (ride) doesn't make it good either or mcn saying its good or anyone on on here; its just trial and error and it gets expensive and frustrating after a while
after 35 yrs i'm still trying to find the perfect combination of helmet, leather or textiles, gloves, boots, base layers, heated stuff,
as someone who uses their bike for work i recommend you buy the best you can afford and get several sets or pairs; just 'cause its goretex means f' all, if they are still wet in the morning or the tab has bust you're stuck
look at other pastimes/sports for base layers and waterproofs they are cheaper but do the same job
just because it's expensive does not mean its good quality - i have sent two pairs of air n dry gloves by held back because the stitching failed in a few days; givi top box lock failed; Daytona boot zip pull failed twice, rukka press stubs failed on trousers, furygan press studs failed heated clothing controller failed
just cause it has a green triangle (ride) doesn't make it good either or mcn saying its good or anyone on on here; its just trial and error and it gets expensive and frustrating after a while
after 35 yrs i'm still trying to find the perfect combination of helmet, leather or textiles, gloves, boots, base layers, heated stuff,
wa16 said:
the bike is your choice
as someone who uses their bike for work i recommend you buy the best you can afford and get several sets or pairs; just 'cause its goretex means f' all, if they are still wet in the morning or the tab has bust you're stuck
look at other pastimes/sports for base layers and waterproofs they are cheaper but do the same job
just because it's expensive does not mean its good quality - i have sent two pairs of air n dry gloves by held back because the stitching failed in a few days; givi top box lock failed; Daytona boot zip pull failed twice, rukka press stubs failed on trousers, furygan press studs failed heated clothing controller failed
just cause it has a green triangle (ride) doesn't make it good either or mcn saying its good or anyone on on here; its just trial and error and it gets expensive and frustrating after a while
after 35 yrs i'm still trying to find the perfect combination of helmet, leather or textiles, gloves, boots, base layers, heated stuff,
So 2-3 jackets/trousers/etc. for winter? as someone who uses their bike for work i recommend you buy the best you can afford and get several sets or pairs; just 'cause its goretex means f' all, if they are still wet in the morning or the tab has bust you're stuck
look at other pastimes/sports for base layers and waterproofs they are cheaper but do the same job
just because it's expensive does not mean its good quality - i have sent two pairs of air n dry gloves by held back because the stitching failed in a few days; givi top box lock failed; Daytona boot zip pull failed twice, rukka press stubs failed on trousers, furygan press studs failed heated clothing controller failed
just cause it has a green triangle (ride) doesn't make it good either or mcn saying its good or anyone on on here; its just trial and error and it gets expensive and frustrating after a while
after 35 yrs i'm still trying to find the perfect combination of helmet, leather or textiles, gloves, boots, base layers, heated stuff,
Don't skimp on kit. I've been commuting year round for the last four years and if I was starting again I'd spend more to get top quality clothing.
If you can get a laminated Goretex suit, then great, but they're pricey. I bought a (non-laminated Goretex) Rukka jacket for less than half RRP and some cheap Richa trousers to start with, along with a lower-end Shoei helmet and Altberg boots. The Rukka has been almost faultless (minor issue with the liner), The Richa only get used in very cold/wet conditions, and have started leaking, the Shoei was replaced with a better model (GT-Air) two years ago and the Altbergs are still going strong. My original Held Air'n'Dry gloves have been first class, but for really cold weather I now use Gerbing heated gloves. Most of the year I ride in jeans - Roadskins for cooler temps and Rokkers for when it's warm. This summer I've been using a Dainese Air Frame mesh jacket, which has been amazing. I'm seriously weighing up some new Goretex trousers for winter. I tend to wear a merino base layer for most of the year, a Buff and decent socks.
P&H have a reasonable clothing selection (from memory), but it's worth considering Helmet City, Sports Bike Shop, Get Geared and Motolegends - trying stuff on in the shop is definitely a good idea if you can.
If you can get a laminated Goretex suit, then great, but they're pricey. I bought a (non-laminated Goretex) Rukka jacket for less than half RRP and some cheap Richa trousers to start with, along with a lower-end Shoei helmet and Altberg boots. The Rukka has been almost faultless (minor issue with the liner), The Richa only get used in very cold/wet conditions, and have started leaking, the Shoei was replaced with a better model (GT-Air) two years ago and the Altbergs are still going strong. My original Held Air'n'Dry gloves have been first class, but for really cold weather I now use Gerbing heated gloves. Most of the year I ride in jeans - Roadskins for cooler temps and Rokkers for when it's warm. This summer I've been using a Dainese Air Frame mesh jacket, which has been amazing. I'm seriously weighing up some new Goretex trousers for winter. I tend to wear a merino base layer for most of the year, a Buff and decent socks.
P&H have a reasonable clothing selection (from memory), but it's worth considering Helmet City, Sports Bike Shop, Get Geared and Motolegends - trying stuff on in the shop is definitely a good idea if you can.
Edited by JulianHJ on Saturday 17th August 13:53
I was in a similar position having passed my test in June. I commute 90 miles a day and got a bike purely to avoid delays at the Dartford crossing (P&H is my local shop too).
I bought a ‘15 NC750X and it seems a good tool for the job. It’s not quick for a bike but will do around 80mpg so I can do 2 trips without refuelling and it’s easy to ride and supposedly reliable. I bought one with all the accessories I wanted fitted as things like hand guards and top boxes are quite expensive to buy.
I bought Alpinestars textiles new on eBay and a few bits here and there. M&P often have 20% off on eBay. The most expensive thing I bought were Gerbing heated gloves and strangely the cheapest was the Helmet (was happy to spend a couple of hundred or more but a cheap MT fitted better than everything else). As others have said, buy base layers from somewhere like Decathlon or other cycle/outdoor shops.
I’m getting some proper wet gear soon but don’t mind a bit of rain, the only thing that stops me riding at the moment is when it’s gusty. As I get more experienced that might not bother me so much but it’s not pleasant at motorway speeds so sometimes I’ll drive.
I bought a ‘15 NC750X and it seems a good tool for the job. It’s not quick for a bike but will do around 80mpg so I can do 2 trips without refuelling and it’s easy to ride and supposedly reliable. I bought one with all the accessories I wanted fitted as things like hand guards and top boxes are quite expensive to buy.
I bought Alpinestars textiles new on eBay and a few bits here and there. M&P often have 20% off on eBay. The most expensive thing I bought were Gerbing heated gloves and strangely the cheapest was the Helmet (was happy to spend a couple of hundred or more but a cheap MT fitted better than everything else). As others have said, buy base layers from somewhere like Decathlon or other cycle/outdoor shops.
I’m getting some proper wet gear soon but don’t mind a bit of rain, the only thing that stops me riding at the moment is when it’s gusty. As I get more experienced that might not bother me so much but it’s not pleasant at motorway speeds so sometimes I’ll drive.
I do about 6k a year commuting in the north east. (Minus 3 was my record this winter!)
Buy the best gear you can
Buy the bike you want (i'm a 28" leg and I'm on a triumph tiger 800, am on tippy toes a little but it's easily manageable) ideally you want some weather protection from the bike, so consider a bigger screen to keep the worst of the wind last and Rain off you.
Make sure you have good gloves, with heated grips & hand guards if you can to keep the wind off.
Layer up in winter.
Decent tyres
Treat everyone like they are gonna kill you
Enjoy!
Buy the best gear you can
Buy the bike you want (i'm a 28" leg and I'm on a triumph tiger 800, am on tippy toes a little but it's easily manageable) ideally you want some weather protection from the bike, so consider a bigger screen to keep the worst of the wind last and Rain off you.
Make sure you have good gloves, with heated grips & hand guards if you can to keep the wind off.
Layer up in winter.
Decent tyres
Treat everyone like they are gonna kill you
Enjoy!
Edited by pessimal on Saturday 17th August 17:29
Really appreciating the advice.
So, if I happened to have a few base layers already knocking around - add some more so I've ten sets - morning and evening every work day.
Then, a decent (ideally laminated) goretex set of textiles.
A rain oversuit. Maybe a balaclava.
Above should get me going for autumn/winter?
Good set of boots, and heated waterproof gloves. Neck buff. I'd have a budget of around £1500 for that and a helmet - doable?
Then, come spring, grab a pair or two of kevlar jeans, and a more summer jacket and lighter gloves?
Don't mind spending a couple of hundred quid every six months 'topping up' or replacing - I'm looking to be saving £250 a month despite buying a new bike, tax and insurance, so reinvesting that once every three months seems reasonable?
Really not looking like I'll have much in the way of weather protection - everything that does is too tall, unless I want to spend quite a bit more on the bike (cutting into my kit budget)...
So, if I happened to have a few base layers already knocking around - add some more so I've ten sets - morning and evening every work day.
Then, a decent (ideally laminated) goretex set of textiles.
A rain oversuit. Maybe a balaclava.
Above should get me going for autumn/winter?
Good set of boots, and heated waterproof gloves. Neck buff. I'd have a budget of around £1500 for that and a helmet - doable?
Then, come spring, grab a pair or two of kevlar jeans, and a more summer jacket and lighter gloves?
Don't mind spending a couple of hundred quid every six months 'topping up' or replacing - I'm looking to be saving £250 a month despite buying a new bike, tax and insurance, so reinvesting that once every three months seems reasonable?
Really not looking like I'll have much in the way of weather protection - everything that does is too tall, unless I want to spend quite a bit more on the bike (cutting into my kit budget)...
I commute all year round, I have a summer bike but tend to do most on my Vespa 300.
Winter kit
Heated grips
Rukka gloves
Alpinestars 3 layer goretex coat.
I have a termscud (granny blanket) on my Vespa this keeps knees and legs warm.
I’ve never used a balaclava but I do use a neck tube thing to stop drafts going down.
A pin lock visor is useful too so you’re face stays warm.
Basically it’s your toes and fingers that go first. Once the cold has set in its never going to warm up.
Winter kit
Heated grips
Rukka gloves
Alpinestars 3 layer goretex coat.
I have a termscud (granny blanket) on my Vespa this keeps knees and legs warm.
I’ve never used a balaclava but I do use a neck tube thing to stop drafts going down.
A pin lock visor is useful too so you’re face stays warm.
Basically it’s your toes and fingers that go first. Once the cold has set in its never going to warm up.
Seeing brands like Rukka mentioned a fair bit when it comes to the stuff you really, really want to be warm/waterproof (particularly gloves).
Are these brands ones that 'focus' on this, and therefore are just 'better'?
Any ideas of a 'ranking' of brands vs price vs quality? Ones I perhaps should trust a bit more?
Are these brands ones that 'focus' on this, and therefore are just 'better'?
Any ideas of a 'ranking' of brands vs price vs quality? Ones I perhaps should trust a bit more?
Sway said:
Seeing brands like Rukka mentioned a fair bit when it comes to the stuff you really, really want to be warm/waterproof (particularly gloves).
Are these brands ones that 'focus' on this, and therefore are just 'better'?
Any ideas of a 'ranking' of brands vs price vs quality? Ones I perhaps should trust a bit more?
Bottom line is, you need laminated Goretex, aka Goretex Pro, and not just a separate Goretex membrane. This is why Goretex Pro is much more expensive than regular Goretex. Key difference is that GTX Pro WON'T get soaked through, so not only is it more comfortable but also it will dry very quickly. If you are considering 2-3 jackets for drying time, just spend the money on one decent Pro suit instead. You also stay warmer as the outer of the suit won't get soaked.Are these brands ones that 'focus' on this, and therefore are just 'better'?
Any ideas of a 'ranking' of brands vs price vs quality? Ones I perhaps should trust a bit more?
Yes they are expensive but very much worth it if you are riding in bad weather regularly.
So where I've been looking at the Dainese Carve Master 2 jacket and trousers at £700, planning to add a pair of jeans and a waterproof suit for really s
tty conditions - I should perhaps look more closely at the Rukka Armaxion jacket and trousers for £850?
Lamimated Goretex, removable thermal liner. Leaves enough in the budget for helmet, rukka gloves and a pair of boots. Use my existing hiking base layers?
tty conditions - I should perhaps look more closely at the Rukka Armaxion jacket and trousers for £850?Lamimated Goretex, removable thermal liner. Leaves enough in the budget for helmet, rukka gloves and a pair of boots. Use my existing hiking base layers?
I used to commute & ride socially year round, I used decent textile kit but not at the level (price) mentioned here; I did sometimes put a jacket on that was still soaking (outer) but it was rare. My Sidi boots and Alpinestar overtrousers never leaked and my Alpinestar gloves were warm enough I never needed heated bars or gloves. All of my kit was selected by going into a shop and buying on quality, not badge, reviews or recommendations and it did the job well.
So my contribution probably hasn't helped at all
but I do have something useful to add which is:
Get really good tyres
I ended up swearing by Michelin PR2's and they gave me great confidence in all weathers.
The other thing I'll echo is year round commuting will shag your bike, get good secondhand: is it worth considering a shaftie, Honda Deauville perhaps?
So my contribution probably hasn't helped at all
but I do have something useful to add which is:Get really good tyres
I ended up swearing by Michelin PR2's and they gave me great confidence in all weathers.
The other thing I'll echo is year round commuting will shag your bike, get good secondhand: is it worth considering a shaftie, Honda Deauville perhaps?
You'd appreciate the comfy, tall position of a CB500x (the 'adventure' of Honda's range of 500cc machines). I had a similar commute situation to the one you describe and the bike delivered a consistent 75 mpg, and with a nice tall screen it keeps the worst of the bad weather out as well. The luggage capability of the thing was very helpful too.
One example of this bike:
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bikes-for-sale/hond...
The hot grips will be very nice when the weather gets colder.
One example of this bike:
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bikes-for-sale/hond...
The hot grips will be very nice when the weather gets colder.
NorthernSky said:
You'd appreciate the comfy, tall position of a CB500x (the 'adventure' of Honda's range of 500cc machines). I had a similar commute situation to the one you describe and the bike delivered a consistent 75 mpg, and with a nice tall screen it keeps the worst of the bad weather out as well. The luggage capability of the thing was very helpful too.
One example of this bike:
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bikes-for-sale/hond...
The hot grips will be very nice when the weather gets colder.
I liked it - but was perched right up on tip toes... Felt a bit daunting. One example of this bike:
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bikes-for-sale/hond...
The hot grips will be very nice when the weather gets colder.
I commute all year round but 10 miles each way on a naked. I'm just at the point of being really cold in the winter on my arrival and I have full kit. Some heated gloves or a vest may be required for further but if I were you I would get something with a screen and fairing. Once you get cold there's no way to warm up until arrival.
If you're concerned about seat height you can get a drop link to lower the saddle on a lot of bikes
If you're concerned about seat height you can get a drop link to lower the saddle on a lot of bikes
Just been and tried on the Rukka Armaxion jacket and trousers... Crikey. Every single bit comes across as well thought out, and "serious".
Great deal too - the set came to less than the rrp for the jacket.
Also tried on some helmets - AGV m/s seemed to fit really well - any other brands with a similar shape that are worth trying? Arai were awfully uncomfortable!
Great deal too - the set came to less than the rrp for the jacket.
Also tried on some helmets - AGV m/s seemed to fit really well - any other brands with a similar shape that are worth trying? Arai were awfully uncomfortable!
I commute a 150 miles per day round trip from Suffolk to the South Bank for 7 miles a year. That's between 15k and 18k miles. The first thing to think about is that your bike will quickly have no resale value. That's only a problem if you want to sell it, but it's better to run it for a good number of years until it dies. That, in turn, means you really need a bike that's going to last. and last well. Choose bikes that aren't fragile and have good quality components rather than ones that look nice .Also, get a narrow bike as it makes filtering so much easier. Although, good mirrors you can actually use are also a god send.
Make sure it gets serviced on the nose every time by someone who really does know what they're doing.
Treat the bike to regular doses of ACF50,
For your gear, go for Gore-Tex. If it hasn't got Gore-Tex you're playing a guessing game as to whether it'll actually keep the rain out or not and you'll sweat like a rapist every time the sun comes out.
Generally, the more you spend the better the kit, so be prepared to spend a lot of money.
Make sure it gets serviced on the nose every time by someone who really does know what they're doing.
Treat the bike to regular doses of ACF50,
For your gear, go for Gore-Tex. If it hasn't got Gore-Tex you're playing a guessing game as to whether it'll actually keep the rain out or not and you'll sweat like a rapist every time the sun comes out.
Generally, the more you spend the better the kit, so be prepared to spend a lot of money.
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