Nortons current state
Discussion
ceesvdelst said:
yes a workman has the ability to speak his mind, but in this type of environment it is not hard to believe that doing so would have probably got you the sack
I think we all realise that an end to one's employment is a highly probably outcome, but I think the point is that we all have a choice about whether to do the wrong thing or the right thing. It is no different for a worker protecting his employment by doing the wrong thing than it is the boss doing the equivalent same.poo at Paul's said:
Lack of forks aside, could it not the rest stripped and sent for painting? It could be a supplier has it all waiting for payment of other monies?
Wheels are painted on these, bodywork, the chrome style, is paint I think, and specialist stuff at that, so could be at a supplier ?
It's possible, no doubt, but I would have thought that Crighton would have considered that. They'd be pretty well versed on goings on at Norton as they were brought in to get the racing side up and running as far as I understand it.Wheels are painted on these, bodywork, the chrome style, is paint I think, and specialist stuff at that, so could be at a supplier ?
ceesvdelst said:
If any of you have ever worked in a manufacturing environment as I have most of my life you are sometimes asked to do ridiculous things to justify something, be it an audit, visit, or something like this. I have washed cars, painted lines, taken stuff apart to put it back together again (I kid you not)
Having enquired about work at Norton years ago, they paid appallingly, mainly employed kids on minimum wage from the people I spoke to and it would be no shock that they also employed foremen and supervisors who were often bullies.
yes a workman has the ability to speak his mind, but in this type of environment it is not hard to believe that doing so would have probably got you the sack
Exactly. Having enquired about work at Norton years ago, they paid appallingly, mainly employed kids on minimum wage from the people I spoke to and it would be no shock that they also employed foremen and supervisors who were often bullies.
yes a workman has the ability to speak his mind, but in this type of environment it is not hard to believe that doing so would have probably got you the sack
boyse7en said:
So apparently Stuart Garner failed to appear at the pension ombudsman's hearing this morning.
Sounds like he's just going to go into hiding and hope it all blows over eventually. Do we have an extradition treaty with South Africa?
Don't know. I understand it's not expensive to have someone killed, though, so he probably should keep his head down.Sounds like he's just going to go into hiding and hope it all blows over eventually. Do we have an extradition treaty with South Africa?
JxJ Jr. said:
A further update on this saga:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/13/n...
"Garner did not respond to an invitation to comment. He has said that he did not know he was dealing with fraudsters when creating the pensions schemes and that he considers himself to be a victim. He denies any wrongdoing."https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/13/n...
Is he going to get Fiona Onasanya to represent him?
Pothole said:
"Garner did not respond to an invitation to comment. He has said that he did not know he was dealing with fraudsters when creating the pensions schemes and that he considers himself to be a victim. He denies any wrongdoing."
Is he going to get Fiona Onasanya to represent him?
Perfect timing, she’s just relaunched herself as a motivational speaker, and surprise surprise has a book Is he going to get Fiona Onasanya to represent him?
https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/f...
Mr Dendrite said:
Pothole said:
"Garner did not respond to an invitation to comment. He has said that he did not know he was dealing with fraudsters when creating the pensions schemes and that he considers himself to be a victim. He denies any wrongdoing."
Is he going to get Fiona Onasanya to represent him?
Perfect timing, she’s just relaunched herself as a motivational speaker, and surprise surprise has a book Is he going to get Fiona Onasanya to represent him?
https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/f...
ceesvdelst said:
If any of you have ever worked in a manufacturing environment as I have most of my life you are sometimes asked to do ridiculous things to justify something, be it an audit, visit, or something like this. I have washed cars, painted lines, taken stuff apart to put it back together again (I kid you not)
Having enquired about work at Norton years ago, they paid appallingly, mainly employed kids on minimum wage from the people I spoke to and it would be no shock that they also employed foremen and supervisors who were often bullies.
yes a workman has the ability to speak his mind, but in this type of environment it is not hard to believe that doing so would have probably got you the sack
Having enquired about work at Norton years ago, they paid appallingly, mainly employed kids on minimum wage from the people I spoke to and it would be no shock that they also employed foremen and supervisors who were often bullies.
yes a workman has the ability to speak his mind, but in this type of environment it is not hard to believe that doing so would have probably got you the sack
I used to work in a manufacturing environment employing a similar number to Norton and to those on the assembly line, they were given tasks and they did them. If we were manufacturing Nortons I have no doubt there would be bikes which 'suits' would ask parts moved from one bike to another etc.. It wasn't the assembly line staff's jobs to ask questions and if they did they would get a pretty short answer..
I think my resounding point here is yes, Garner, the government etc etc may all have serious questions to be answered, but let's not start condemning regular employees on the basis of assumed guilt. These guys will be dealing with being out of a job so I think a certain level of 'benefit of the doubt' should be awarded to them.
JxJ Jr. said:
A further update on this saga:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/13/n...
Shows how toothless the pension regulator is. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/13/n...
Issues a judgement that the transfer must be made in 21 days, then does nothing when it doesn't happen. Should have been in there with a winding up order in August.
Spot on Fire, I have done all sorts of things to make books look good, built stuff that sat in a lorry for a few days to get it out of the workshop and off the books, then brought it back to finish it!
Yes we all take pride in our work, and those conversations would have to be had with management and your line rep, but I can not for a minute imagine this was done willingly by the staff.
Management often remove pride from the workforce, thankfully most people I have worked with in such environments have more pride about their products than the management do, usually only surpassed by engineers who work tirelessly and usually in extraordinarily tricky situations to be that way and make it possible to build the product well.
Yes we all take pride in our work, and those conversations would have to be had with management and your line rep, but I can not for a minute imagine this was done willingly by the staff.
Management often remove pride from the workforce, thankfully most people I have worked with in such environments have more pride about their products than the management do, usually only surpassed by engineers who work tirelessly and usually in extraordinarily tricky situations to be that way and make it possible to build the product well.
Here is a comment from 'Bob Holt', who claims to have worked from Norton.
https://www.bikerglory.com/news/the-norton-saga/
Bob Holt
October 8, 2012 at 2:14 pm | Reply
I worked at Triumph for over 7 years and left to join Norton as their 3rd employee. Stuart Garner was a joke from the start and clearly didn’t know anything about manufacturing or buisiness. Worse still he wouldn’t listen to anyone who did! I brought some excellent suppliers to Norton who were treated very badly and were ultimately re-sourced when they dared to ask for payment. Not a pleasant experience. It’s a shame Mr Bloor didn’t buy Norton when Stuart offered it to him – but Garner is greedy asked way too much. Hopefully when it folds it will be purchased by someone with integrity who wants to build a business rather than make a quick buck.
Worse than the treatment of suppliers was the treatment of customers. Testing was non-existent. We advised the necessity for mileage, pave etc. but that would cost money – and Garner didn’t have any (or worse, wouldn’t part with it). We experienced airboxes filling with oil which leaked over the back wheel and gearbox lock-ups on bikes that Garner was happy to send to customers. There was generally a complete disregard for safety in the factory too.
It’s a shame that all of the decent employees have left. The original FD was a star and Andie was really sound. We initially had some great people and goodwill which quickly disappeared.
I’m now a Purchasing Manager for a (proper) Aerospace company and most people have moved on to better things.
I’d like to say good luck to Stuart but I actually hope it folds quickly and gets a decent person at the helm.
Bob Holt.
https://www.bikerglory.com/news/the-norton-saga/
Bob Holt
October 8, 2012 at 2:14 pm | Reply
I worked at Triumph for over 7 years and left to join Norton as their 3rd employee. Stuart Garner was a joke from the start and clearly didn’t know anything about manufacturing or buisiness. Worse still he wouldn’t listen to anyone who did! I brought some excellent suppliers to Norton who were treated very badly and were ultimately re-sourced when they dared to ask for payment. Not a pleasant experience. It’s a shame Mr Bloor didn’t buy Norton when Stuart offered it to him – but Garner is greedy asked way too much. Hopefully when it folds it will be purchased by someone with integrity who wants to build a business rather than make a quick buck.
Worse than the treatment of suppliers was the treatment of customers. Testing was non-existent. We advised the necessity for mileage, pave etc. but that would cost money – and Garner didn’t have any (or worse, wouldn’t part with it). We experienced airboxes filling with oil which leaked over the back wheel and gearbox lock-ups on bikes that Garner was happy to send to customers. There was generally a complete disregard for safety in the factory too.
It’s a shame that all of the decent employees have left. The original FD was a star and Andie was really sound. We initially had some great people and goodwill which quickly disappeared.
I’m now a Purchasing Manager for a (proper) Aerospace company and most people have moved on to better things.
I’d like to say good luck to Stuart but I actually hope it folds quickly and gets a decent person at the helm.
Bob Holt.
bolidemichael said:
Here is a comment from 'Bob Holt', who claims to have worked from Norton.
https://www.bikerglory.com/news/the-norton-saga/
Bob Holt
October 8, 2012 at 2:14 pm | Reply
I worked at Triumph for over 7 years and left to join Norton as their 3rd employee. Stuart Garner was a joke from the start and clearly didn’t know anything about manufacturing or buisiness. Worse still he wouldn’t listen to anyone who did! I brought some excellent suppliers to Norton who were treated very badly and were ultimately re-sourced when they dared to ask for payment. Not a pleasant experience. It’s a shame Mr Bloor didn’t buy Norton when Stuart offered it to him – but Garner is greedy asked way too much. Hopefully when it folds it will be purchased by someone with integrity who wants to build a business rather than make a quick buck.
Worse than the treatment of suppliers was the treatment of customers. Testing was non-existent. We advised the necessity for mileage, pave etc. but that would cost money – and Garner didn’t have any (or worse, wouldn’t part with it). We experienced airboxes filling with oil which leaked over the back wheel and gearbox lock-ups on bikes that Garner was happy to send to customers. There was generally a complete disregard for safety in the factory too.
It’s a shame that all of the decent employees have left. The original FD was a star and Andie was really sound. We initially had some great people and goodwill which quickly disappeared.
I’m now a Purchasing Manager for a (proper) Aerospace company and most people have moved on to better things.
I’d like to say good luck to Stuart but I actually hope it folds quickly and gets a decent person at the helm.
Bob Holt.
I'm typically rarely on FB now but when I am its normally bike groups/pages and I see a lot of comments like this from ex staffhttps://www.bikerglory.com/news/the-norton-saga/
Bob Holt
October 8, 2012 at 2:14 pm | Reply
I worked at Triumph for over 7 years and left to join Norton as their 3rd employee. Stuart Garner was a joke from the start and clearly didn’t know anything about manufacturing or buisiness. Worse still he wouldn’t listen to anyone who did! I brought some excellent suppliers to Norton who were treated very badly and were ultimately re-sourced when they dared to ask for payment. Not a pleasant experience. It’s a shame Mr Bloor didn’t buy Norton when Stuart offered it to him – but Garner is greedy asked way too much. Hopefully when it folds it will be purchased by someone with integrity who wants to build a business rather than make a quick buck.
Worse than the treatment of suppliers was the treatment of customers. Testing was non-existent. We advised the necessity for mileage, pave etc. but that would cost money – and Garner didn’t have any (or worse, wouldn’t part with it). We experienced airboxes filling with oil which leaked over the back wheel and gearbox lock-ups on bikes that Garner was happy to send to customers. There was generally a complete disregard for safety in the factory too.
It’s a shame that all of the decent employees have left. The original FD was a star and Andie was really sound. We initially had some great people and goodwill which quickly disappeared.
I’m now a Purchasing Manager for a (proper) Aerospace company and most people have moved on to better things.
I’d like to say good luck to Stuart but I actually hope it folds quickly and gets a decent person at the helm.
Bob Holt.
Genuinely I hope the name and legacy lives on with someone buying it and sorting the problems. I still look at some of the models and wish I could afford as a second road bike
nightflight said:
I was hoping to buy a new Commando next year, but that looks like it's not going to happen now (unless it gets rescued). I'm looking at some second hand ones now, but I'm wondering about future values. So are they going to hold their values, or become worthless. Any thoughts?
Had a chat with the Owner of Krazy Horse (Paul Beamish) at Excel. Some people holding deposits with him have taken 961s he has in stock rather than what they have ordered.. The thinking being that the 961 does not meet latest emissions and if any one buys Norton they will drop that model and go for the V4 and the Atlas/Nomad, so the 961 will become an appreciating asset! Don’t know if that helps, not sure if I agree with him, spares etc etc. He also reckoned there are a number of prospective buyers for the business...Anyway, there you go, you pays yer money and takes yer choice.
Birky_41 said:
I'm typically rarely on FB now but when I am its normally bike groups/pages and I see a lot of comments like this from ex staff
Genuinely I hope the name and legacy lives on with someone buying it and sorting the problems. I still look at some of the models and wish I could afford as a second road bike
Me too but hopefully after Garner has been locked up Genuinely I hope the name and legacy lives on with someone buying it and sorting the problems. I still look at some of the models and wish I could afford as a second road bike
Mr Dendrite said:
nightflight said:
I was hoping to buy a new Commando next year, but that looks like it's not going to happen now (unless it gets rescued). I'm looking at some second hand ones now, but I'm wondering about future values. So are they going to hold their values, or become worthless. Any thoughts?
Had a chat with the Owner of Krazy Horse (Paul Beamish) at Excel. Some people holding deposits with him have taken 961s he has in stock rather than what they have ordered.. The thinking being that the 961 does not meet latest emissions and if any one buys Norton they will drop that model and go for the V4 and the Atlas/Nomad, so the 961 will become an appreciating asset! Don’t know if that helps, not sure if I agree with him, spares etc etc. He also reckoned there are a number of prospective buyers for the business...Anyway, there you go, you pays yer money and takes yer choice.
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