Nortons current state
Discussion
Pothole said:
boyse7en said:
Mortgage_tom said:
But the figures of only around 800 bikes sold ever, only one a week was very shocking! Is that right? Turnover around £1 million a year? (Accounts on companies house show nearly £7 million?)
No official sales figures were ever released, but i know that in the UK only 123 Nortons were registered in 2018, and an even more paltry 57 in 2017.Only got figures for Jan-September for 2019, but there were only 80 Nortons registered (compared with 119 for the same period the year before), so sales were taking a proper hammering. Presumably because they couldn't get the parts to build the bikes.
In the account on page 15, its shows the split of the turnover:
2017
UK £1,189,384
Europe £2,156,516
Rest of World £2,252,437
2018
UK £1,646,436
Europe £2,441,946
Rest of World £2,660,914
I suppose UK turnover kind of matches your registered figures.
But according to the accounts the UK was only 25% on the Norton market............
NS400R said:
Whilst clearly Garner is an untrustworthy character to say the least , I do wonder about the integrity of those now only too happy to publically condemn him. Something smells badly. From where I'm sat, Tiller looks to be complicit.
Some of these stories are over a decade old. It's weird to me that they haven't been picked up on or converged in any way. This is one of the most high profile companies of any type in Britain which has never shown much sign of tangible success yet a procession absolute screamers have bypassed the world until now.
My issue with the whole, story is that his brother is sitting there, and yet allows his other brother to take the 90 grand payout, when it was supposed to be 360! If that was your brother what would you do? Maybe they didn't get on. Did Garner know he was a pisshead and would likely take the money?
This man knew the family, knew his father!
Something about it is not right, having dealt with one or two of these small engineering firms, some of them are run fairly weirdly is all I can say.
I am not saying Spondon are doing anything wrong here, but there is an agenda, the writer clearly had a thing about Norton and Garner (rightly so maybe) and that was how the article was written, very slanted, Garner is not present to put forward his view, nor is anyone representing Norton. And although he is clearly a crook of the highest order, totally biased articles are never a good thing and actually very bad journalism
This man knew the family, knew his father!
Something about it is not right, having dealt with one or two of these small engineering firms, some of them are run fairly weirdly is all I can say.
I am not saying Spondon are doing anything wrong here, but there is an agenda, the writer clearly had a thing about Norton and Garner (rightly so maybe) and that was how the article was written, very slanted, Garner is not present to put forward his view, nor is anyone representing Norton. And although he is clearly a crook of the highest order, totally biased articles are never a good thing and actually very bad journalism
NS400R said:
Whilst clearly Garner is an untrustworthy character to say the least , I do wonder about the integrity of those now only too happy to publically condemn him. Something smells badly. From where I'm sat, Tiller looks to be complicit.
On this occasion, I agree 100%. No one with "nothing to hide" simply rolls over and accepts that type of fraud/theft without involving the authorities. There has been a lot of dodgy dealing from many sides going on here and while Garner may have done the dodgiest deals of them all, I don't think any of the others are as "white" as they'd like to be seen.
Let's just hope that ALL who were involved in illegal dealings are brought to justice.
black-k1 said:
NS400R said:
Whilst clearly Garner is an untrustworthy character to say the least , I do wonder about the integrity of those now only too happy to publically condemn him. Something smells badly. From where I'm sat, Tiller looks to be complicit.
On this occasion, I agree 100%. No one with "nothing to hide" simply rolls over and accepts that type of fraud/theft without involving the authorities. There has been a lot of dodgy dealing from many sides going on here and while Garner may have done the dodgiest deals of them all, I don't think any of the others are as "white" as they'd like to be seen.
Let's just hope that ALL who were involved in illegal dealings are brought to justice.
No wonder these things can go on. People get confused at even the basic facts.
The spondon boys were not brothers.They were business partners.
I would credit them that when your main love and skill is bending pipes and welding you are not likely to be business and finance astute.
They probably ticked along nicely earning a crust till one of them got ill and wanted out.
There must have been better options at that stage but they took the wrong one.
They probably knew they were doomed anyway as the japanese could punt out better frames and chassis by the 1000s by then.
The spondon boys were not brothers.They were business partners.
I would credit them that when your main love and skill is bending pipes and welding you are not likely to be business and finance astute.
They probably ticked along nicely earning a crust till one of them got ill and wanted out.
There must have been better options at that stage but they took the wrong one.
They probably knew they were doomed anyway as the japanese could punt out better frames and chassis by the 1000s by then.
Fundoreen said:
They probably knew they were doomed anyway as the japanese could punt out better frames and chassis by the 1000s by then.
Spondon had a good business, and still would have today. As well road racing, they made a lot of speciality bike Drag Race swingarms and the like.Yes, even from the early 90's Jap frames gto betterm but theres a big Retro air cooled movement in bikes, plsu the air cooled stuff still works on the strip.
Predictions:
Stuart Garner will not go to jail. There will be insufficient evidence of criminal conduct to meet the charging standard, and prosecution could also be politically embarrassing for government. At most he will eventually enter a voluntary undertaking not to hold a directorship, after years of evasion and legal games. Long before then, BDO will sell what's left of Norton to the highest bidder. The new owners will not be responsible for any of the debts, pensions etc. The winning bid will be from a company or consortium which Garner controls (openly or otherwise).
Hope I'm wrong in every respect.
Stuart Garner will not go to jail. There will be insufficient evidence of criminal conduct to meet the charging standard, and prosecution could also be politically embarrassing for government. At most he will eventually enter a voluntary undertaking not to hold a directorship, after years of evasion and legal games. Long before then, BDO will sell what's left of Norton to the highest bidder. The new owners will not be responsible for any of the debts, pensions etc. The winning bid will be from a company or consortium which Garner controls (openly or otherwise).
Hope I'm wrong in every respect.
Tardigrade said:
Predictions:
Stuart Garner will not go to jail. There will be insufficient evidence of criminal conduct to meet the charging standard, and prosecution could also be politically embarrassing for government. At most he will eventually enter a voluntary undertaking not to hold a directorship, after years of evasion and legal games. Long before then, BDO will sell what's left of Norton to the highest bidder. The new owners will not be responsible for any of the debts, pensions etc. The winning bid will be from a company or consortium which Garner controls (openly or otherwise).
Hope I'm wrong in every respect.
Agreed. Doubt he'd end up back in ownership of Norton though, indirectly or otherwiseStuart Garner will not go to jail. There will be insufficient evidence of criminal conduct to meet the charging standard, and prosecution could also be politically embarrassing for government. At most he will eventually enter a voluntary undertaking not to hold a directorship, after years of evasion and legal games. Long before then, BDO will sell what's left of Norton to the highest bidder. The new owners will not be responsible for any of the debts, pensions etc. The winning bid will be from a company or consortium which Garner controls (openly or otherwise).
Hope I'm wrong in every respect.
snagzie said:
Tardigrade said:
Predictions:
Stuart Garner will not go to jail. There will be insufficient evidence of criminal conduct to meet the charging standard, and prosecution could also be politically embarrassing for government. At most he will eventually enter a voluntary undertaking not to hold a directorship, after years of evasion and legal games. Long before then, BDO will sell what's left of Norton to the highest bidder. The new owners will not be responsible for any of the debts, pensions etc. The winning bid will be from a company or consortium which Garner controls (openly or otherwise).
Hope I'm wrong in every respect.
Agreed. Doubt he'd end up back in ownership of Norton though, indirectly or otherwiseStuart Garner will not go to jail. There will be insufficient evidence of criminal conduct to meet the charging standard, and prosecution could also be politically embarrassing for government. At most he will eventually enter a voluntary undertaking not to hold a directorship, after years of evasion and legal games. Long before then, BDO will sell what's left of Norton to the highest bidder. The new owners will not be responsible for any of the debts, pensions etc. The winning bid will be from a company or consortium which Garner controls (openly or otherwise).
Hope I'm wrong in every respect.
The truth? It's been a complete joke of a company since the orignal famous marque hit the buffers.
Empty promise after empty promise from the new boss, of radical and/or very powerful new machinery in bike magazine articles proved to be little more than an ego trip for the gaffer.
Total nonsense most of the time and i said what seems like decades back that we'd never see the name truly competitive again under his rule.
We got a few stupidly overpriced and very average bikes which nobody in any numbers wanted to over pay for and so here we are as i expected, the company as good as dead.
I have a real Norton still, a 1977 Commando 850 MK 3, with the mods that bike always needed to be modern day reliable and even quite quick. (Electronic ignition, belt primary drive, Mikuni carbs., 920cc big-bore kit with high compression (forged) pistons, gas-flowed heads, plus a sportier camshaft. Rebuilt and improved starter motor too. Originals were cack.)
Empty promise after empty promise from the new boss, of radical and/or very powerful new machinery in bike magazine articles proved to be little more than an ego trip for the gaffer.
Total nonsense most of the time and i said what seems like decades back that we'd never see the name truly competitive again under his rule.
We got a few stupidly overpriced and very average bikes which nobody in any numbers wanted to over pay for and so here we are as i expected, the company as good as dead.
I have a real Norton still, a 1977 Commando 850 MK 3, with the mods that bike always needed to be modern day reliable and even quite quick. (Electronic ignition, belt primary drive, Mikuni carbs., 920cc big-bore kit with high compression (forged) pistons, gas-flowed heads, plus a sportier camshaft. Rebuilt and improved starter motor too. Originals were cack.)
53 bhp @ 6,200 rpm and 48 lb-ft at 5,000 rpm it had as standard. The simple mods above saw it move to 74 bhp @ 6,350 rpm and 59 lb-ft at 4,870 rpm.
Tiny outputs by modern day standards but the bike is nevertheless so much livelier, especially in top gear. I have raised the gearing to make the best use of the extra grunt. It goes really well.
But anyway, this will always be a Norton to me, not the boring stuff they charged the Earth for latterly.
Tiny outputs by modern day standards but the bike is nevertheless so much livelier, especially in top gear. I have raised the gearing to make the best use of the extra grunt. It goes really well.
But anyway, this will always be a Norton to me, not the boring stuff they charged the Earth for latterly.
Chasin the racin podcast is out now and there is a good interview on there with one of the first V4 owners to have his bike delivered. It's also possible that the stripped bike posted on here may also be his too?
He was also at the factory gates on the day the receivers went in and he goes on to explain what happened once they managed to get inside the factory and even speak to Garner himself.
He was also at the factory gates on the day the receivers went in and he goes on to explain what happened once they managed to get inside the factory and even speak to Garner himself.
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