Three jailed for dangerous driving
Discussion
vonhosen said:
V8RX7 said:
If they are normal guys and haven't been banned before, personally I'd see that as a 3 month ban.
That is actually a huge issue for most people and would make most have a long think before being so silly again.
A 12 month ban will almost certainly mean losing their jobs with possibly life changing results
A prison sentence is disgraceful - plenty of scum have got a lot less than that who set out to cause harm - this was just fun that got out of hand
You might disagree with the sentence, but are you really surprised by it?That is actually a huge issue for most people and would make most have a long think before being so silly again.
A 12 month ban will almost certainly mean losing their jobs with possibly life changing results
A prison sentence is disgraceful - plenty of scum have got a lot less than that who set out to cause harm - this was just fun that got out of hand
It doesn't surprise me that people convicted of multiple acts of dangerous driving get custodial sentences.
Derek summed it up very well - if you want to deter people you need to make them think they will get caught, typically by regularly catching people.
Harsh sentencing doesn't deter, if people don't think they will get caught
I drive fast, always have, haven't been caught for 10+ yrs. If I got a 3 month ban that would really mess my life up but I'd try to obey it.
If I got prison and a long ban then there's no way I'd stick to it (I simply couldn't) nor would I be able to get a job, so you end up with another scumbag operating outside the law - who does that help ?
vonhosen said:
They may take an alternate view, something like that a single parent down on their luck stealing a chicken to feed the kids isn't comparable to people who they regard as putting people's lives at risk all in the name of a bit of fun.
It’s just fashionable to use speeding for bs like this. The fact that none of the bikes are capable of 200 mph, nobody was hurt, seems lost on those hell bent to send them down. I suppose the poor ‘single parents’ are always the cause of theft, what total nonsense you write sometimes. It’s because the Police can’t catch actual criminals, this is a lovely bit of PR, which actually just makes the general public despise them even more. Shall we jail everyone for ‘potential’ risk? I’ll start with Prince Andrew
yonex said:
vonhosen said:
They may take an alternate view, something like that a single parent down on their luck stealing a chicken to feed the kids isn't comparable to people who they regard as putting people's lives at risk all in the name of a bit of fun.
It’s just fashionable to use speeding for bs like this. The fact that none of the bikes are capable of 200 mph, nobody was hurt, seems lost on those hell bent to send them down. I suppose the poor ‘single parents’ are always the cause of theft, what total nonsense you write sometimes. It’s because the Police can’t catch actual criminals, this is a lovely bit of PR, which actually just makes the general public despise them even more. Shall we jail everyone for ‘potential’ risk? I’ll start with Prince Andrew
For dangerous driving it doesn't matter that nobody was hurt, you see it's the actions not the outcome that matter. If they had actually hurt or killed somebody it would have been a stiffer sentence still or even a more serious offence.
Of course not all other offending is a poor single single parent, but you were the one who brought up other low level offending & that's an example of other low level offending.
Dangerous driving is a recordable serious crime.
yonex said:
Daft riding, but it shows exactly everything that’s wrong with the justice system these days. Jail terms, taking productive people out of society, meanwhile letting ‘low priority’ criminals off the hook. Typical hysteria from the press, judge and Police.
I'd agree there's scope for punishments that are better for society but that's a different discussion isn't it, the judge has only certain options, and I guess this is a case of being made an example cos you were dumb enough to have camera footage lying around. Also looking at the video I'd say they weren't generally responsible people "pushing it a bit/having a moment of madness", but people who act like t
ts until the inevitable big one where invariably innocent people have to suffer.V8RX7 said:
vonhosen said:
V8RX7 said:
If they are normal guys and haven't been banned before, personally I'd see that as a 3 month ban.
That is actually a huge issue for most people and would make most have a long think before being so silly again.
A 12 month ban will almost certainly mean losing their jobs with possibly life changing results
A prison sentence is disgraceful - plenty of scum have got a lot less than that who set out to cause harm - this was just fun that got out of hand
You might disagree with the sentence, but are you really surprised by it?That is actually a huge issue for most people and would make most have a long think before being so silly again.
A 12 month ban will almost certainly mean losing their jobs with possibly life changing results
A prison sentence is disgraceful - plenty of scum have got a lot less than that who set out to cause harm - this was just fun that got out of hand
It doesn't surprise me that people convicted of multiple acts of dangerous driving get custodial sentences.
Derek summed it up very well - if you want to deter people you need to make them think they will get caught, typically by regularly catching people.
Harsh sentencing doesn't deter, if people don't think they will get caught
I drive fast, always have, haven't been caught for 10+ yrs. If I got a 3 month ban that would really mess my life up but I'd try to obey it.
If I got prison and a long ban then there's no way I'd stick to it (I simply couldn't) nor would I be able to get a job, so you end up with another scumbag operating outside the law - who does that help ?
Whatever the likelihood of being caught & harsher sentence will still alter my behavioural choice.
For example, I may be happy to exceed the limit & risk a course/FPN, but I won't go much faster where the punishments are harsher. The risk of detection isn't difference between the two, it's the differing potential penalty that decides where I'll draw my personal line.
vonhosen said:
It's not speeding they were charged & convicted for, it's for a offence right near the top of the tree for motoring offences, dangerous driving. If it were a bit of mild speeding they'd have been offered a course.
For dangerous driving it doesn't matter that nobody was hurt, you see it's the actions not the outcome that matter. If they had actually hurt or killed somebody it would have been a stiffer sentence still or even a more serious offence.
Of course not all other offending is a poor single single parent, but you were the one who brought up other low level offending & that's an example of other low level offending.
Dangerous driving is a recordable serious crime.
Yep, because it's an example of the Police, having nothing better else to do seemingly, using a certain offence to massivley increase the punishment, as usual it doesn't fit the crime. I am sure assault would be worse than this, first offence, caution, similarly burglary, drug dealing etc. For dangerous driving it doesn't matter that nobody was hurt, you see it's the actions not the outcome that matter. If they had actually hurt or killed somebody it would have been a stiffer sentence still or even a more serious offence.
Of course not all other offending is a poor single single parent, but you were the one who brought up other low level offending & that's an example of other low level offending.
Dangerous driving is a recordable serious crime.
Then we have PVOJ, that complete pile of cack, used for speeding, or when someone covers a number plate etc. According to all the flat earth types (SP&L) it's no different to hiding a murderer, all fair game.
It's like there's a gene missing in some of you. Years ago this would have been a severe b
king and loss of licence, huge fine etc. Now, these guys are out of society, society has lost contributing members so it is weaker. Then, we will all have to fund these individuals when they are on benefits, cant pay for school clothes etc, it comes out of our pot. So. Is the answer to antisocial riding/driving custodial sentences and making people bonafide crimials?Of course it's not.
The answer is education, but that's not what the clammering foaming at the moouth masses want. It's actualy amusing, some of these Daily Mail types were the very same individuals to enjoy a bit of 'ton up' around the North Circular, different times they'll say, hipocrites.
Stealing isn't low level, but you seem able to make the connection of severity for mitagating circumstances. Well, in this case the mitagating circumstances were stupidity and fun. It's this typical binary level of thinking that destroys any arguement to be honest.
And well done to the Police, it must have taken all of your resources, shame about knife crime........
vonhosen said:
And these people were both caught & sentenced.
.
But what if they'd been caught the first time they did it and the second and the third..
Or even just the 10th, 20th and 30th times !
Their riding has got worse over a period of time as a result of not getting caught.
When I've been prosecuted for speeding, they followed me and that was ONE offence, they didn't carry on and it was a second offence for the 2nd 1/3 mile and a 3rd offence for the next.
Yet that is precisely what happens now with multiple cameras on a road - the point was to change behaviour.
Who really thinks these lads behaviour will change for the better after prison and a ridiculously long ban ?
yonex said:
Daft riding, but it shows exactly everything that’s wrong with the justice system these days. Jail terms, taking productive people out of society, meanwhile letting ‘low priority’ criminals off the hook. Typical hysteria from the press, judge and Police.
This 100%Reading a few people thinking this was justified... Really?!
I don't video my road riding and can you blame a lot of bikers not stopping when the blues and twos come on. I don't condone it but if you're caught the books being thrown at you anyways
The system is wrong
yonex said:
Yep, because it's an example of the Police, having nothing better else to do seemingly, using a certain offence to massivley increase the punishment, as usual it doesn't fit the crime. I am sure assault would be worse than this, first offence, caution, similarly burglary, drug dealing etc.
Then we have PVOJ, that complete pile of cack, used for speeding, or when someone covers a number plate etc. According to all the flat earth types (SP&L) it's no different to hiding a murderer, all fair game.
It's like there's a gene missing in some of you. Years ago this would have been a severe bking and loss of licence, huge fine etc. Now, these guys are out of society, society has lost contributing members so it is weaker. Then, we will all have to fund these individuals when they are on benefits, cant pay for school clothes etc, it comes out of our pot. So. Is the answer to antisocial riding/driving custodial sentences and making people bonafide crimials?
Of course it's not.
The answer is education, but that's not what the clammering foaming at the moouth masses want. It's actualy amusing, some of these Daily Mail types were the very same individuals to enjoy a bit of 'ton up' around the North Circular, different times they'll say, hipocrites.
Stealing isn't low level, but you seem able to make the connection of severity for mitagating circumstances. Well, in this case the mitagating circumstances were stupidity and fun. It's this typical binary level of thinking that destroys any arguement to be honest.
And well done to the Police, it must have taken all of your resources, shame about knife crime........
Blaming all and sundry but the bikers. Sorry yonno, it's a Then we have PVOJ, that complete pile of cack, used for speeding, or when someone covers a number plate etc. According to all the flat earth types (SP&L) it's no different to hiding a murderer, all fair game.
It's like there's a gene missing in some of you. Years ago this would have been a severe b
king and loss of licence, huge fine etc. Now, these guys are out of society, society has lost contributing members so it is weaker. Then, we will all have to fund these individuals when they are on benefits, cant pay for school clothes etc, it comes out of our pot. So. Is the answer to antisocial riding/driving custodial sentences and making people bonafide crimials?Of course it's not.
The answer is education, but that's not what the clammering foaming at the moouth masses want. It's actualy amusing, some of these Daily Mail types were the very same individuals to enjoy a bit of 'ton up' around the North Circular, different times they'll say, hipocrites.
Stealing isn't low level, but you seem able to make the connection of severity for mitagating circumstances. Well, in this case the mitagating circumstances were stupidity and fun. It's this typical binary level of thinking that destroys any arguement to be honest.
And well done to the Police, it must have taken all of your resources, shame about knife crime........
from me.yonex said:
vonhosen said:
It's not speeding they were charged & convicted for, it's for a offence right near the top of the tree for motoring offences, dangerous driving. If it were a bit of mild speeding they'd have been offered a course.
For dangerous driving it doesn't matter that nobody was hurt, you see it's the actions not the outcome that matter. If they had actually hurt or killed somebody it would have been a stiffer sentence still or even a more serious offence.
Of course not all other offending is a poor single single parent, but you were the one who brought up other low level offending & that's an example of other low level offending.
Dangerous driving is a recordable serious crime.
Yep, because it's an example of the Police, having nothing better else to do seemingly, using a certain offence to massivley increase the punishment, as usual it doesn't fit the crime. I am sure assault would be worse than this, first offence, caution, similarly burglary, drug dealing etc. For dangerous driving it doesn't matter that nobody was hurt, you see it's the actions not the outcome that matter. If they had actually hurt or killed somebody it would have been a stiffer sentence still or even a more serious offence.
Of course not all other offending is a poor single single parent, but you were the one who brought up other low level offending & that's an example of other low level offending.
Dangerous driving is a recordable serious crime.
Far more people are in prison for offences against the person, burglary & drugs than there are for dangerous driving.
yonex said:
Then we have PVOJ, that complete pile of cack, used for speeding, or when someone covers a number plate etc. According to all the flat earth types (SP&L) it's no different to hiding a murderer, all fair game.
Perverting the course of justice can emanate from all manner of offences. The consistent theme with it is the subversion of justice, not the offence from which the subversion originated.yonex said:
It's like there's a gene missing in some of you. Years ago this would have been a severe bking and loss of licence, huge fine etc. Now, these guys are out of society, society has lost contributing members so it is weaker. Then, we will all have to fund these individuals when they are on benefits, cant pay for school clothes etc, it comes out of our pot. So. Is the answer to antisocial riding/driving custodial sentences and making people bonafide crimials?
It's not something new.king and loss of licence, huge fine etc. Now, these guys are out of society, society has lost contributing members so it is weaker. Then, we will all have to fund these individuals when they are on benefits, cant pay for school clothes etc, it comes out of our pot. So. Is the answer to antisocial riding/driving custodial sentences and making people bonafide crimials?It's not merely anti social driving, it's dangerous driving.
I showed the video without comment to a few people & asked them what they thought about. These people weren't driving enthusiasts, just your average run of the mill people & their response was invariably 'they need locking up".
yonex said:
The answer is education, but that's not what the clammering foaming at the moouth masses want. It's actualy amusing, some of these Daily Mail types were the very same individuals to enjoy a bit of 'ton up' around the North Circular, different times they'll say, hipocrites.
Educating?You think they genuinely thought that behaviour would be viewed as acceptable?
yonex said:
Stealing isn't low level, but you seem able to make the connection of severity for mitagating circumstances. Well, in this case the mitagating circumstances were stupidity and fun. It's this typical binary level of thinking that destroys any arguement to be honest.
Petty theft doesn't put other people's live at risk, these people did through their actions (whether it ultimately resulted in it or not). The system places more value on lives than property.yonex said:
And well done to the Police, it must have taken all of your resources, shame about knife crime........
Much fewer resources being used on roads Policing than knife crime etc. These guys provided most of the evidence themselves.According to the article Police responding to complaints from the public in relation to dangerous driving & a resulting accident.
vonhosen said:
They may take an alternate view, something like that a single parent down on their luck stealing a chicken to feed the kids
Are you a hill billy living in the 19th century ? Seriously that sentence above should read as below."Young drug dealer with several kids steals for drug money"
Your original quote will most likely be more representative of the 3 guys jailed when they return back to civvy street after everything they own including there jobs is gone .
mak said:
vonhosen said:
They may take an alternate view, something like that a single parent down on their luck stealing a chicken to feed the kids
Are you a hill billy living in the 19th century ? Seriously that sentence above should read as below."Young drug dealer with several kids steals for drug money"
Your original quote will most likely be more representative of the 3 guys jailed when they return back to civvy street after everything they own including there jobs is gone .
Here is the story of a PHer who thought it wouldn't happen to him, he was just having some fun after all. No doubt he had done the same many times before, just he was lucky on those occasions & got away with it.
But he was wrong & he paid a price along with the guy he hurt.
http://dansprisondiary.blogspot.com
If his collision hadn't have happened it would have been luck that he got away with his dangerous driving, but his driving would still have amounted to dangerous driving nevertheless.
Unfortunately for him he didn't get away with it & other innocent people then had to pay a price too for his dangerous driving.
If you mess about on public roads, engaging in an extended course of conduct that places innocent people going about their normal lawful business at unnecessary risk. The authorities will deal with it seriously. It isn't an isolated mistake these guys were involved in & it wasn't a simple error of judgement. They engaged in an extended & concerted course of conduct that showed no regard for others on the roads.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 1st December 22:05
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