Advanced Riding - IAM/Resource

Advanced Riding - IAM/Resource

Author
Discussion

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Tuesday 4th February 2020
quotequote all
Evening all,

I passed my DAS last November and I've been riding for fun and doing some commuting on my bike since then. I'm currently nearing completion of my IAM Advanced Driving with my car. Once complete, I'd like to undertake the bikesafe training then move on and start my IAM Advanced Riding.

Does anyone have any advice on resource/experience with IAM riding?

I used youtube videos, primarily Reg Local, which has served me fantastically for my car. Was wondering if there was an equivalent for motorbikes?

Not sure if this belongs here or in the Advanced Driving section, so apologises if I've got it wrong in advance!


V8RX7

26,762 posts

262 months

Tuesday 4th February 2020
quotequote all
I've just put in for my initial test ride with IAM

Spoke to the friendly local coordinator who said that'd he'd had a few people come straight from their test and that's not really suitable, I've been doing dirt and a bit of road for a year.

Apparently there can be a bit of a delay to start and it takes on average 8 sessions to be ready to pass the test.

He was apologetic about the cost £150ish, I thought it seems good value (hopefully)

outnumbered

4,067 posts

233 months

Tuesday 4th February 2020
quotequote all
I've watched a few of these:

https://www.youtube.com/user/seaflyfisher/videos

I think the bloke is an ex-copper, knows what he's talking about anyway, even if the title of the videos is slightly pretentious !

What part of the country are you in ? I'm doing IAM bike observer training at the moment.

Zedboy

813 posts

210 months

Tuesday 4th February 2020
quotequote all
V8RX7 said:
He was apologetic about the cost £150ish, I thought it seems good value (hopefully)
You often get a good deal at the Bike Shows. IAM we’re pushing it for £50 at NEC in November.

Even at full price it’s ridiculously good value. I passed BMF Blue Riband in the late 80’s and IAM in late 90’s. The system means I’m still learning and it’s kept me safe every day.

V8RX7

26,762 posts

262 months

Tuesday 4th February 2020
quotequote all
Zedboy said:
You often get a good deal at the Bike Shows. IAM we’re pushing it for £50 at NEC in November.
Bugger, I was there and didn't see it

Reg Local

2,676 posts

207 months

Tuesday 4th February 2020
quotequote all
AB57 said:
I used youtube videos, primarily Reg Local, which has served me fantastically for my car. Was wondering if there was an equivalent for motorbikes?
Glad they were of use!

I’ve just started bike examining for the IAM (I’ve been testing IAM advanced car candidates for a few years, but I only passed my mod 2 a couple of years ago, so it’s taken me a while to get through advanced, masters & examiner QA).

The plan is to do some more advanced bike content this year. I’ve just bought some new camera & sound kit which should help & I’ll be making a series of videos which look at the basics required to get to IAM/RoSPA advanced standard.

ashleyman

6,962 posts

98 months

Tuesday 4th February 2020
quotequote all
Similar question but didn't want to start a new topic.

I passed my CBT in September 2019 and then commuted to work on a 125 until I did my DAS in January. I'm now commuting on a big bike.

The guys at my school said I should 100% booked onto an advanced course or at the very least get some advance tuition but some of the stuff they said made me feel like it might be too much straight after passing DAS.

How much experience would you say is required before going into advance tuition?

I'd been driving for 6 years before doing any extra tuition and even then that was tough to get my head round. I'm wondering if I have a better base as I've done the car stuff to then move it over to bike?

Krikkit

26,500 posts

180 months

Tuesday 4th February 2020
quotequote all
ashleyman said:
I passed my CBT in September 2019 and then commuted to work on a 125 until I did my DAS in January. I'm now commuting on a big bike.

The guys at my school said I should 100% booked onto an advanced course or at the very least get some advance tuition but some of the stuff they said made me feel like it might be too much straight after passing DAS.

How much experience would you say is required before going into advance tuition?
When I passed my instructors said the best way was to do a few months and/or a few thousand miles to get comfortable with the basics, then once it's second nature to think about more training.

I passed in Feb last year, then did a bikesafe course in August after about 3k miles.

outnumbered

4,067 posts

233 months

Tuesday 4th February 2020
quotequote all
I'll disagree a bit on the timing. I got into advanced riding through the Honda "Motorcycle Appreciation Course". This was a free course they gave away with new bikes in the early 2000s (I assume a PR reaction to hundreds of born again bikers stuffing their new Fireblades into the scenery). 2 full days with an ex police rider, it was a brilliant experience.

I did that within 3 or 4 months of getting the bike, and can't see why you'd want to delay learning to be a safer rider...


ashleyman

6,962 posts

98 months

Wednesday 5th February 2020
quotequote all
outnumbered said:
I'll disagree a bit on the timing. I got into advanced riding through the Honda "Motorcycle Appreciation Course". This was a free course they gave away with new bikes in the early 2000s (I assume a PR reaction to hundreds of born again bikers stuffing their new Fireblades into the scenery). 2 full days with an ex police rider, it was a brilliant experience.

I did that within 3 or 4 months of getting the bike, and can't see why you'd want to delay learning to be a safer rider...
This is what I wasn’t sure about. My school said an instructor would want to see you ‘making progress’ at all times when safe to do so. Whilst I like to make progress whilst riding I’m not on it 100% of the time as my skill level isn’t there yet. Based on that I thought I’d need more machine and balance practice before jumping in to advance stuff.

Reg Local

2,676 posts

207 months

Wednesday 5th February 2020
quotequote all
My advice would be to do your advanced course/test within 12 months of passing your test.

At that stage in your riding, your mind is still in learning mode & you haven’t had much time to fall into many bad/convenient habits. From an examiners perspective, I see younger/newer drivers & riders passing the advanced test more regularly and with greater ease than those with more years of driving or riding experience.

As for “progress”, yes, we want you to “get on with it”, but only within speed limits and only where its safe & appropriate. Progress has to be balanced against restraint at all times.

The more important aspects of the course are the improvements in your observations & planning skills. The biggest benefit of advanced driver/rider training is that it helps to reduce the frequency of those “oh st” moments by giving you the skills to look further down the road and predict what might happen. Those moments where you’re caught by surprise by something are reduced and you find that you become less reliant on your reactions.

If you haven’t considered it yet, it’s well worth it, especially for motorcyclists.

JamesD74

231 posts

174 months

Wednesday 5th February 2020
quotequote all
I don't agree that you need to wait '000s of miles. I passed my bike test last Jan, took bikesafe in the March and then started IAM in April passing a couple of months after.

Really enjoyed it all and I am glad I started it sooner rather than later.

V8RX7

26,762 posts

262 months

Wednesday 5th February 2020
quotequote all
JamesD74 said:
I don't agree that you need to wait '000s of miles. I passed my bike test last Jan, took bikesafe in the March and then started IAM in April passing a couple of months after.

Really enjoyed it all and I am glad I started it sooner rather than later.
I agree to an extent as you are more at risk with less experience and training but equally you need to have good control of the bike, some have that in an hour some take a lot longer.

Esceptico

7,334 posts

108 months

Wednesday 5th February 2020
quotequote all
My instructor for the DAS (ex copper who used to train police bikers) advised me to wait a few months to get used to riding then come back for advanced training, which I did. I did ROSPA with him. Many years later I did IAM. I preferred ROSPA but that was probably
just because my instructor was really good and his idea of making progress was rather different from IAM where they pretty much stuck to the limits.

Krikkit

26,500 posts

180 months

Wednesday 5th February 2020
quotequote all
V8RX7 said:
JamesD74 said:
I don't agree that you need to wait '000s of miles. I passed my bike test last Jan, took bikesafe in the March and then started IAM in April passing a couple of months after.

Really enjoyed it all and I am glad I started it sooner rather than later.
I agree to an extent as you are more at risk with less experience and training but equally you need to have good control of the bike, some have that in an hour some take a lot longer.
Which was exactly what my instructors meant - someone who does CBT and DAS within a few weeks and probably less than 200 road miles (i.e. me) won't have the natural feel for the controls that comes after a few more miles and a bit of practice. And to be relaxed enough to be able to ride and think about improving, without just thinking about their controls of course.

black-k1

11,887 posts

228 months

Wednesday 5th February 2020
quotequote all
I think it depends on what you are trying to get out of the instruction/training and the approach/attitude of your instructor.

Starting advanced riding instruction from day 1 of passing your DAS is a good idea, but it’s unlikely you’ll be passing an advanced test in the next 8 weeks. Set your sights accordingly and understand what you are trying to achieve. If your instructor is aware that you are a novice and are simply looking for good habits to pick up and bad habits to avoid then the instruction they provide should be at a level that means you’re not getting swamped while still trying to remember if the lever goes up or down to get to the next gear.

The DAS is a good way to pass a test and get a license. It’s not a particularly good way to learn how to ride safely on the road. In fact, a number of the DAS requirements are contrary to recognised advanced riding techniques so unlearning those as quickly as possible is probably a good idea.

If your instructor is really only interested in training you when you’re ready to go for the test, then another instructor may be the best solution.

3nduro

183 posts

97 months

Wednesday 5th February 2020
quotequote all
AB57 said:
Evening all,

I passed my DAS last November and I've been riding for fun and doing some commuting on my bike since then. I'm currently nearing completion of my IAM Advanced Driving with my car. Once complete, I'd like to undertake the bikesafe training then move on and start my IAM Advanced Riding.

Does anyone have any advice on resource/experience with IAM riding?

I used youtube videos, primarily Reg Local, which has served me fantastically for my car. Was wondering if there was an equivalent for motorbikes?

Not sure if this belongs here or in the Advanced Driving section, so apologises if I've got it wrong in advance!
I'm a member of LAM (south london IAM group) .. highly recommend getting out with this from Banstead.

I bought a cbr 600f in march 2002 .. then highsided it in Oct 2002 when I got overconfident ... THEN did the IAM training .... recommend doing it the other way round !!

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Wednesday 5th February 2020
quotequote all
Reg Local said:
As for “progress”, yes, we want you to “get on with it”, but only within speed limits and only where its safe & appropriate. Progress has to be balanced against restraint at all times.
The problem with IAM/ROSPA is that however good riders they are, they aren't professional instructors and this area in particular is open to interpretation.

I got criticised by my IAM observer for how much I was slowing down for blind bends. Particularly downhill blind bends with plenty of wet mud.
"What if there's a stationary vehicle just out of sight?" I asked.
"What if there isn't?" He replied.

At this particular IAM branch the monthly meetings started with a list of announcements, which always seemed to a reference to at least one member having a single vehicle cornering accident, usually quite serious. You'd think someone would conclude that the cornering technique they recommended might need reviewing but nobody seemed to recognise that the whole point of the organisation was supposedly to reduce the likelihood of accidents.

outnumbered

4,067 posts

233 months

Wednesday 5th February 2020
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
The problem with IAM/ROSPA is that however good riders they are, they aren't professional instructors and this area in particular is open to interpretation.

I got criticised by my IAM observer for how much I was slowing down for blind bends. Particularly downhill blind bends with plenty of wet mud.
"What if there's a stationary vehicle just out of sight?" I asked.
"What if there isn't?" He replied.
Being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear (or half the distance on a single track road) is a non-negotiable foundation for any system of safe riding. Maybe you got the only observer in the country who wasn't aware of that.

In our club riding is coached with the highest priority on safety, then legality, then what you need to do to pass an IAM test. So "making progress" is not close to being #1 on the list of things to consider (unless the person is riding so slowly that it's dangerous). Improving observation is the foundation for all the rest of it, and that can be done while you build confidence in handling the bike.



V8RX7

26,762 posts

262 months

Wednesday 5th February 2020
quotequote all
I saw this review of IAM which shows that there are differing views:

I took my Iam simply so that I could ride for blood bikes.
I had already undergone advanced training elsewhere but needed the certificate to ride for my local hospital.
I had two observers during my training but one said one thing and the other said something else. Anyway after passing I was persuaded to take the so called Iam masters.
On the day of the masters test my examiner said, & I quote, "speed limits are sacrosanct".
At the end of the test the examiner said that I had failed to make due progress vis a vis overtaking opportunities. When I pointed out that I was sticking to the prevailing speed limit he said that his comment regarding speed limits being sacrosanct did not apply to overtaking. Somewhat miffed I retook my masters a few days later with the same examiner.
I decided that, whilst I may fail once again, it would not be for not making due progress.
So 90 mph in 60 limits, whilst passing lines of traffic, was the order of the ride. Such fun! Following the ride the examiner passed me with a distinction, strange but true.
I believe that all new riders should undergo some extra training & if you have just passed your basic motorcycle test Iam is worth doing. However, in my opinion, advanced is a misnomer and masters is pretentious.
If you are already a half decent rider and have a genuine desire to hone your skills then there are far better sources of training. If you want to join a clique and get a mutley medal then try Iam.

Reply from IAM RoadSmart

Hello Neil. Neither we nor our groups would ever advocate speeding under any circumstances. We are happy to look into this in more detail.