Moto GP Thread 2023
Discussion
Chipchap said:
Assuming the appeal is not successful, Marc should turn up in Argentina ride as little as possible. Qualify wherever he can. Ride the race and do his 2 long laps and then retire the bike. Penalty served within the rules. A round not missed as HRC Repsol fielded 2 bikes and 2 riders.
Then get ready for US GP and do what he does best in America.
I honestly hope they do this. Then get ready for US GP and do what he does best in America.
As long MM is declared fit...
I mean VR46 rode Aragon with a broken leg.
hiccy18 said:
Clumsy wording by the stewards kicked all this off, and HRC may tehnically have point, but it's still a stupid lawyer move in sport from which you can guarantee no matter who "wins", the fans are the losers.
I saw this reported a couple of days ago and thought I'd put it in this thread. The article I read mentioned a Moto3 rider (if I remember correctly) who copped a penalty last year (in the last round I think) and the penalty had written something along the lines of "the next race". I thought I'd check some other penalties and they (of the ones I could find, which was very few) stated the race at which the penalty was to be served - not "the next race".So yeah, clumsy wording. It'd be interesting to see why they specify the place at which the penalty is to be served. Is there a reason behind it? Or is there absolutely no thought about it whatsoever? Or is it some Spanish liquistics thing in that they don't have an equivalent to the English "serve penalty in the next MotoGP race rider participates in"?
rodericb said:
I saw this reported a couple of days ago and thought I'd put it in this thread. The article I read mentioned a Moto3 rider (if I remember correctly) who copped a penalty last year (in the last round I think) and the penalty had written something along the lines of "the next race". I thought I'd check some other penalties and they (of the ones I could find, which was very few) stated the race at which the penalty was to be served - not "the next race".
So yeah, clumsy wording. It'd be interesting to see why they specify the place at which the penalty is to be served. Is there a reason behind it? Or is there absolutely no thought about it whatsoever? Or is it some Spanish liquistics thing in that they don't have an equivalent to the English "serve penalty in the next MotoGP race rider participates in"?
Celestino Vietti copped a penalty at Valencia last season (for some quite shocking riding as I recall) and the penalty stated it would apply at the next round he raced at. For some reason the norm is for the round to be specified, which is being shown to be inadequate.So yeah, clumsy wording. It'd be interesting to see why they specify the place at which the penalty is to be served. Is there a reason behind it? Or is there absolutely no thought about it whatsoever? Or is it some Spanish liquistics thing in that they don't have an equivalent to the English "serve penalty in the next MotoGP race rider participates in"?
I understand HRC's appeal from a point of gaining clarity in the rules, but considering MM93's ready acceptance of punishment, and willingness to be penalised, appealing the changes to the ruling is an unsporting attempt to avoid sanction.
It's all down to the wording isn't it, the rules should state at the next round that they compete at and be done with it.
Part of me wants Dorna etc to hold their hands up and admit the error, and part of me wants Marc/HRC to roll up, do the bare minimum and get the 2 long lap penalties out of the way then retire.
However, given what Marc caused last weekend I'd hope someone would just accept the penalties regardless of wording and just get on with it.
Part of me wants Dorna etc to hold their hands up and admit the error, and part of me wants Marc/HRC to roll up, do the bare minimum and get the 2 long lap penalties out of the way then retire.
However, given what Marc caused last weekend I'd hope someone would just accept the penalties regardless of wording and just get on with it.
poo at Paul's said:
Whether you are bothered by the wording or not, if it ends up with his poor riding causing Olivera a lost race, and missed race in Argie and all the grief etc, and Marc ends up exactly the same, ie no worse off than Olivera, there’s something fundamentally wrong.
There certainly is. The wording of the penalty given to Marc by the stewards. No court could possibly force him to take it. Fundamentally wrong or not HRC would absolutely mad to take it.
The stewards messed up. It’s like any case where The Police mess up… judge throws it out.
FredericRobinson said:
He had a hearing, and was given a penalty, a few days later, with no further hearing the penalty was changed, there’s no way that can stand
Yeah... except for the "C'mon tae f
k, fair cop!" part where being seen to operate within the spirit of the rules is the best thing to do when it comes to acknowledging and complying with disciplinary action, because it's not like there's any argument over the need for the punishment, or the severity of it.The best thing that can happen is, regardless of the off-track jockeying, Marquez takes his punishment like a man and that ends it.
hiccy18 said:
FredericRobinson said:
He had a hearing, and was given a penalty, a few days later, with no further hearing the penalty was changed, there’s no way that can stand
Yeah... except for the "C'mon tae fk, fair cop!" part where being seen to operate within the spirit of the rules is the best thing to do when it comes to acknowledging and complying with disciplinary action, because it's not like there's any argument over the need for the punishment, or the severity of it.The best thing that can happen is, regardless of the off-track jockeying, Marquez takes his punishment like a man and that ends it.
epom said:
He did take his punishment, he accepted it and agreed to take the punishment he was given.
Yeah, that's the lawyers answer. He's not actually served it, yet.Listen, I'm a Marquez fan, he's held me in slack-jawed wonder since his final Moto2 race, even though I've spent most of the time since rooting for "the other guy" to beat him. His attitude towards other riders has often been questioned, that final Moto2 round he started last because of his behaviour, but I'm never one for piling on, and he has immediately accepted and admitted his fault in this instance. But if he "serves" his penalty at a round he's absent from there'll be an awful lot of disgruntled people, in and out of the paddock.
Rightly Honda are appealing the process, but appealing the punishment for a maneouver that injured three riders is commercial, not sporting. And it is a sport.
hiccy18 said:
Yeah... except for the "C'mon tae fk, fair cop!" part where being seen to operate within the spirit of the rules is the best thing to do when it comes to acknowledging and complying with disciplinary action, because it's not like there's any argument over the need for the punishment, or the severity of it.
The best thing that can happen is, regardless of the off-track jockeying, Marquez takes his punishment like a man and that ends it.
It might be best for him PR wise, not for Honda though, could be worth a position in the final season rankings k, fair cop!" part where being seen to operate within the spirit of the rules is the best thing to do when it comes to acknowledging and complying with disciplinary action, because it's not like there's any argument over the need for the punishment, or the severity of it.The best thing that can happen is, regardless of the off-track jockeying, Marquez takes his punishment like a man and that ends it.
hiccy18 said:
epom said:
He did take his punishment, he accepted it and agreed to take the punishment he was given.
Yeah, that's the lawyers answer. He's not actually served it, yet.Listen, I'm a Marquez fan, he's held me in slack-jawed wonder since his final Moto2 race, even though I've spent most of the time since rooting for "the other guy" to beat him. His attitude towards other riders has often been questioned, that final Moto2 round he started last because of his behaviour, but I'm never one for piling on, and he has immediately accepted and admitted his fault in this instance. But if he "serves" his penalty at a round he's absent from there'll be an awful lot of disgruntled people, in and out of the paddock.
Rightly Honda are appealing the process, but appealing the punishment for a maneouver that injured three riders is commercial, not sporting. And it is a sport.
The inherent issue (aside from riding standards) is the application of penalties in MotoGP in general.
FIM stewards are at least now ex-racers, but they're not lawyers and there also appears a lack of consistency at times.
Inherent danger for me is we progress further toward F1 levels where the sport (for me at least) has been ruined by rules and their poor interpretation & application. The FIM should work with Dorna to a more consistent application and mechanism for penalties, I know they've tried for years.
A lot of the incidents during the weekend were shown as 'to be investigated after the race' which can bugger up the results, if done during the race, can bugger up the racing or there isn't sufficient time to assess due to number of laps etc. so it can bugger up both.
In fairness, a seemingly simple guideline which states - penalties will be served during that race or the next race the rider starts would have meant this wasn't an issue.
Honda are right to appeal it on the process point, morals and spirit aside, what happens the next time to a different rider/team/incident etc. Let's get it clarified and move on.
FIM stewards are at least now ex-racers, but they're not lawyers and there also appears a lack of consistency at times.
Inherent danger for me is we progress further toward F1 levels where the sport (for me at least) has been ruined by rules and their poor interpretation & application. The FIM should work with Dorna to a more consistent application and mechanism for penalties, I know they've tried for years.
A lot of the incidents during the weekend were shown as 'to be investigated after the race' which can bugger up the results, if done during the race, can bugger up the racing or there isn't sufficient time to assess due to number of laps etc. so it can bugger up both.
In fairness, a seemingly simple guideline which states - penalties will be served during that race or the next race the rider starts would have meant this wasn't an issue.
Honda are right to appeal it on the process point, morals and spirit aside, what happens the next time to a different rider/team/incident etc. Let's get it clarified and move on.
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