KTM gone into administration?

[SteveKTMer]

Evo Sean said:

How many potential customers are like me perhaps?

Errr, about 7. You can't see it when you're riding it. Do you ride for your own pleasure or do you ride for the benefit of others seeing your nice bike ?

Seriously, almost none of the modern clutch of bikes are attractive, maybe the odd Ducati is and a handful of rare exceptions, but the vast majority wouldn't win a beauty competition.

[Janluke]

KTM did not handle the "cheese cam" issue very well and in general seem out of touch with the customer.
Charging extra to enable the extras already fitted on the bike.
Discounting bikes heavily at the end of the season every year means second hand values are all over the place
The warranty claim system is also long winded for both dealer and customer. I had a small issue with warped/corroded discs, the dealer had the parts in stock but it took 6 weeks for KTM to approve the claim


I think it's fair to say KTMs are not as bad as they are portrayed however perception does have an impact on sales.

I love KTM but I can see why lots of folk avoid them

[moanthebairns]

trickywoo said:

KTMsm said:

In the past new bikes were substantially better than the previous models but for 20 years they have been far faster than can be used on the road, reliable etc

I know why they do it but the press / YouTubers do normal punters no favours. Every new bike is the best and a huge jump over last years model according to them. The reality is a well maintained bike of the past 20 years, as you say, is at least the equal of anything new.

I naturally watched a few reviews on the 790 before I bought mines. Everyone sung its praise, but they were all riding demo bikes with £1500's worth of upgraded suspension on them, it wasn't worth watching them in reflection, its a completely different bike standard. But at the time £6k for a new one was a no brainer. I've done 1400 miles on it in a years ownership, more than half of that has been going to the garage and back getting niggles fixed, leaks galore, decals falling off, cracked display, nothing terminal but it's the time and the service cost that pisses me off, they wont just let you submit a photo in of your fault, you have to physically ride there, have it inspected then get booked in at a later date after the claim has went through.

I adore my wee RC but even that hasn't been fault free ownership. At the time I remember thinking about trading my blade in for a 1290, would I fk now.

[Hugo Stiglitz v2]

SteveKTMer said:

Evo Sean said:

How many potential customers are like me perhaps?

Errr, about 7. You can't see it when you're riding it. Do you ride for your own pleasure or do you ride for the benefit of others seeing your nice bike ?

Seriously, almost none of the modern clutch of bikes are attractive, maybe the odd Ducati is and a handful of rare exceptions, but the vast majority wouldn't win a beauty competition.

You want to look back at it when you park up, not put a blanket over it and hurry away quickly lest someone thinks it's yours!

[NS400R]

KTMsm said:

I sold a 990 smt a few years ago, he took it for a test ride and came back and said "Honda wouldn't sell the public a bike like this" and bought it immediately

You’re right. The Honda would be properly built

Someone earlier suggested that KTM reliability was no worse than any European brand which pretty much says it all. That’s a pretty low bar to be honest.

Honda have released some great bikes. The Fireblade was a game changer. The CRM250 I bought a few weeks ago is the most fun antisocial berserk thing I’ve ever ridden. RC30 was another game changer as was the CB1100R.

[KTMsm]

Hugo Stiglitz v2 said:

You want to look back at it when you park up, not put a blanket over it and hurry away quickly lest someone thinks it's yours!

It's nice to have something nice

Pretty much why I bought my Speed Triple R as it was the prettier option to a Super Duke, had a fantastic noise and felt far better built, metal tank, stainless fasteners etc

But I found I never picked the keys up for it, preferring my 990SM

But I don't do bike meets nor coffee shops, which probably puts me in a minority

[airsafari87]

Hugo Stiglitz v2 said:

You want to look back at it when you park up, not put a blanket over it and hurry away quickly lest someone thinks it's yours!

Said the man riding a V-Strom.

[Hugo Stiglitz v2]

Versus..

[Freakuk]

Reliability..... Let me see...

Here's the big ones I've had, I've had other bikes also including race bikes, track bikes, enduros, MX, but they were all pretty reliable.

Ducati 996 - alternator nut flew off - new alternator, cases, luckily the crank survived
Ducati 999 - Coils died, termi exhaust cracked
Ducati 1200S Multistrada - Cases warped due to wrong tolerance coolant being spec'd
Ducati 1199 Panigale - Again cases warped

KTM Gen3 SDR - MTC error - exup valve gets mech gets jammed up, cable adjustment

[Evo Sean]

Hugo Stiglitz v2 said:

SteveKTMer said:

Evo Sean said:

How many potential customers are like me perhaps?

Errr, about 7. You can't see it when you're riding it. Do you ride for your own pleasure or do you ride for the benefit of others seeing your nice bike ?

Seriously, almost none of the modern clutch of bikes are attractive, maybe the odd Ducati is and a handful of rare exceptions, but the vast majority wouldn't win a beauty competition.

You want to look back at it when you park up, not put a blanket over it and hurry away quickly lest someone thinks it's yours!

Exactly this. Having a pretty bike, even if beauty is in the eye of the beholder, means I'll want to ride it more and leave it parked outside a cafe or biker meet etc. Rather than hide it out of site due the shame of it!

I think the S1000XR and Ducati MS are both pretty bikes these days. Not beautiful but not "oh my ****ing jesus, look at the KTM" ugly.

[spareparts]

Evo Sean said:

Hugo Stiglitz v2 said:

SteveKTMer said:

Evo Sean said:

How many potential customers are like me perhaps?

Errr, about 7. You can't see it when you're riding it. Do you ride for your own pleasure or do you ride for the benefit of others seeing your nice bike ?

Seriously, almost none of the modern clutch of bikes are attractive, maybe the odd Ducati is and a handful of rare exceptions, but the vast majority wouldn't win a beauty competition.

You want to look back at it when you park up, not put a blanket over it and hurry away quickly lest someone thinks it's yours!

Exactly this. Having a pretty bike, even if beauty is in the eye of the beholder, means I'll want to ride it more and leave it parked outside a cafe or biker meet etc. Rather than hide it out of site due the shame of it!

I think the S1000XR and Ducati MS are both pretty bikes these days. Not beautiful but not "oh my ****ing jesus, look at the KTM" ugly.

Not just the looks though. The build quality of KTMs feels cheap. Flexible plastics designed for pure offroad use when bikes get dropped regularly make sense. But on road bikes (including the SuperAdv series which predominantly get ridden on road in Europe), it gives little ownership satisfaction.

Visually and via the 'tap on the tank test', Triumph do this best imho amongst the current manufacturers, although Ducati and BMW keep upping their game. The latest bikes from these 3 all look and feel quality, bikes you're happy to polish and look after as an owner, and they support their premium pricing.

KTMs are probably great bikes to rent or ride-like-you-stole-them if you have no vested interest in keeping them long term.

[Bob_Defly]

I don't think the current range look that bad, it certainly wouldn't put me off buying one.

But I also think the reliability issues depends on your level of expertise, and the issue at hand. If it's something small, and you're technically proficient, it will never be a big problem, but if you're someone who has to go to the dealer for everything then it becomes a massive issue.

I had a 300 XC-W that never let me down. But I have three friends with KTM's all with issues. My previous Triumph also had issues, but I still bought another, albeit with less electronics.

[anonymous-user]

Janluke said:

I think it's fair to say KTMs are not as bad as they are portrayed however perception does have an impact on sales.

It works both ways. Amazingly, there are people who still buy VWs and Audis citing reliability and build quality, and people who still buy BMW and Mercedes citing they're a premium product. Those reputations may have been valid up until the mid-nineties, but certainly not true today.

[hiccy18]

I don't think KIM'S current woes have anything to do with the product.

[robinh73]

Having had my gen 3 SDR for just over a year now, I find this whole situation really sad. The SDR has had a few issues which have been resolved superbly by the dealer, but I would honestly say I really would struggle to change it for anything else. I am not a huge fan of the new headlight on the 1390 SDR but you don't see it when you ride it. I was talking to a guy with a gen 1 SDR just before I ordered mine and he had done 42,000 miles on it pretty much trouble free. I think it is a brilliant bike, very well finished and an absolute blast to ride. It does everything from touring to serious blasts. In a nutshell I love it, best road bike I have owned and I would certainly buy another.

[carinaman]

Janluke said:

KTM did not handle the "cheese cam" issue very well and in general seem out of touch with the customer.

In the last couple of weeks they announced they would fix any camshafts that failed, even those camshafts that are found faulty outside of warranty. It dragged on too long.

They needed to act like adults and get hold of the problem when it was first spotted rather than fobbing off customers and digging their heels in.

It could seem they may've been trying to 'brave it out' like they did with the misty TFT dashboard screens.

I really like KTMs, but I can't agree with treating paying customers, they're not selling to the Govt. or another business, like that.

If manufacturers who have a brand, and a brand image don't care about their customers and the safety of their customers why should anyone else?

I cannot be bothered with the faff and demand on my time of a new toy creating problems and having to get to the dealer to get issues corrected. Buying new so as to avoid the potential problems of a used bike doesn't work if the new bike has faults.


Kiska have designed some fantastic looking bikes:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAgRoQoDFRs

Perhaps the TFTs were brought to market too soon, or the price they were paying for them meant they couldn't quickly and cheaply change to 'bonded to glass', whatever newer bikes have, so there's no air gap that allows condensation to form?

The Svartpilen/Vitpilen 701 yogurt pot LCD dashboards have had condensation issues.

I used my motorbike on Tues. to do an errand. Passed a white, as above, Duke 390 checking in the rear view mirror I saw it had an L plate so it was a 125. It looked great. Got to town and the motorcycle bays had two other bikes, last time it was overflowing with food delivery scooters, and one of them was a 23 plate Duke 790. I checked out the 790 to see if the TFT had condensation but it was dirty and covered in circular swirl marks.


The 'Internet rumours' line works given the stalling and cut out issues on Trident 660s took over a year to initiate a recall? The Trident 660 owner who posted online before Oct. 2022 about stretching the internal diameter on a piece of induction system plumbing was on the right track. It's unfortunate that wasn't resolved before they released the Tiger Sport 660.

[moanthebairns]

carinaman said:

Janluke said:

KTM did not handle the "cheese cam" issue very well and in general seem out of touch with the customer.

In the last couple of weeks they announced they would fix any camshafts that failed, even those camshafts that are found faulty outside of warranty. It dragged on too long.

They needed to act like adults and get hold of the problem when it was first spotted rather than fobbing off customers and digging their heels in.

It could seem they may've been trying to 'brave it out' like they did with the misty TFT dashboard screens.

I really like KTMs, but I can't agree with treating paying customers, they're not selling to the Govt. or another business, like that.

If manufacturers who have a brand, and a brand image don't care about their customers and the safety of their customers why should anyone else?

I cannot be bothered with the faff and demand on my time of a new toy creating problems and having to get to the dealer to get issues corrected. Buying new so as to avoid the potential problems of a used bike doesn't work if the new bike has faults.


Kiska have designed some fantastic looking bikes:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAgRoQoDFRs

Perhaps the TFTs were brought to market too soon, or the price they were paying for them meant they couldn't quickly and cheaply change to 'bonded to glass', whatever newer bikes have, so there's no air gap that allows condensation to form?

The Svartpilen/Vitpilen 701 yogurt pot LCD dashboards have had condensation issues.

I used my motorbike on Tues. to do an errand. Passed a white, as above, Duke 390 checking in the rear view mirror I saw it had an L plate so it was a 125. It looked great. Got to town and the motorcycle bays had two other bikes, last time it was overflowing with food delivery scooters, and one of them was a 23 plate Duke 790. I checked out the 790 to see if the TFT had condensation but it was dirty and covered in circular swirl marks.


The 'Internet rumours' line works given the stalling and cut out issues on Trident 660s took over a year to initiate a recall? The Trident 660 owner who posted online before Oct. 2022 about stretching the internal diameter on a piece of induction system plumbing was on the right track. It's unfortunate that wasn't resolved before they released the Tiger Sport 660.

The 790 I have doesn't have the condensation issue too much, but it did crack in the sunlight.

The RC/Duke 390 TFT dash has been updated with vents on the back to limit the amount of condensation apparently. Mines gets some but it's not as bad as my o/h's 22 that can be really quite bad but KTM deem it acceptable. I'm half tempted to fling a jet wash in it before the warranty runs out.

[carinaman]

moanthebairns said:

The 790 I have doesn't have the condensation issue too much, but it did crack in the sunlight.

The RC/Duke 390 TFT dash has been updated with vents on the back to limit the amount of condensation apparently. Mines gets some but it's not as bad as my o/h's 22 that can be really quite bad but KTM deem it acceptable. I'm half tempted to fling a jet wash in it before the warranty runs out.

Sorry to learn of the crack in the Duke 790 TFT. I was looking at an advert for a used Duke 790 on eBay that was at a dealers on the outskirts of London that had some extras that appealed to me. That had a vertical crack, not quite the entire depth of the screen. The advert stated 'Like many it has a cracked TFT screen'.

Looks wise I'd find it difficult to pick a favourite between the 2017 Duke 390 and the Duke 790. The looks grab me, as does orange frames and orange wheels.

Midwinter 2019 I considered a discounted, last year's colours about to be superceeded green Z650 with the LCD screen as I didn't want a TFT if was going to mist up and cause problems. Their PX offer was poor and I got about a third more when I PXd May/June 2023.

A feature isn't a benefit if it's going to cause me problems and necessitate repeat visits to the dealer.

Edited by carinaman on Thursday 28th November 14:47

[SteveKTMer]

Evo Sean said:

Hugo Stiglitz v2 said:

SteveKTMer said:

Evo Sean said:

How many potential customers are like me perhaps?

Errr, about 7. You can't see it when you're riding it. Do you ride for your own pleasure or do you ride for the benefit of others seeing your nice bike ?

Seriously, almost none of the modern clutch of bikes are attractive, maybe the odd Ducati is and a handful of rare exceptions, but the vast majority wouldn't win a beauty competition.

You want to look back at it when you park up, not put a blanket over it and hurry away quickly lest someone thinks it's yours!

Exactly this. Having a pretty bike, even if beauty is in the eye of the beholder, means I'll want to ride it more and leave it parked outside a cafe or biker meet etc. Rather than hide it out of site due the shame of it!

I think the S1000XR and Ducati MS are both pretty bikes these days. Not beautiful but not "oh my ****ing jesus, look at the KTM" ugly.

You see, that's probably the difference between a KTM rider and a Honda/BMW/Ducati rider.

I look back at my KTM parked at the mountain 3* hotel, sweating slightly, and think, fu*k I didn't think I'd stay on it today, several times I was worried but what a fantastic ride !

A Honda rider looks back at his bike parked in the town hotel garage, smelling of Brute 66, and thinks, fu*k me that was beautifully uneventful, I hope there's some beige food in the restaurant.

A Ducati rider looks back at his bike parked at the SPA and Wellness centre, smelling of Hi Karate, and thinks, I wonder if any nice young ladies saw me riding this beautiful bike today ?

The BMW rider didn't make it as his panniers stopped him filtering and he's still on the A6 near Reims !

[carinaman]

SteveKTMer said:

A Ducati rider looks back at his bike parked at the SPA and Wellness centre, smelling of Hi Karate, and thinks, I wonder if any nice young ladies saw me riding this beautiful bike today?

All of the Valerie Leon lookalikes will be checking out Baron von Grumble on his ex Biaggi Aprilia.