Turbo upgrade on RV8
Discussion
Ribol said:
Tvr Power said:
Powers MBE is an optional extra with a new bespoke harness etc which comes with a locked bespoke Map in with the deal, there are no restrictions on any other after market ECUs....
Dom
Dom, forgetting anything to do with LPG, a few questions on your upgrade if I may:Dom
If a car drives in running well on a 14CUX it will drive out for £7200 (assuming nothing else wrong)?
Does that include an intercooler in that price or is it an extra?
What other properly installed ECUs are you happy to work with to be able to drive out having spent £4200 for a Turbo/Intercooler install?
Will you be doing any self install kits at any point?
Any well known after market ecus will work fine, preferably Mbe of coarse
Dom
You've done it now 
Tvr Power said:
Ribol said:
Does that include an intercooler in that price or is it an extra?
What other properly installed ECUs are you happy to work with to be able to drive out having spent £4200 for a Turbo/Intercooler install?
Any well known after market ecus will work fine, preferably Mbe of coarse What other properly installed ECUs are you happy to work with to be able to drive out having spent £4200 for a Turbo/Intercooler install?
Dom
Getting back to ECU thing, if a car drives in running an Emerald/Megasquirt ECU, would you do a complete drive in/out mapped turbo install for the £4200 that has been quoted?
ChimpofDarkness said:
SILICONEKID340HP said:
We have been through all this Lpg thing before ..Just show us the LPG storage solution ..maybe two small tanks ,one each side .
Modern vehicals when converting to gas no not even need mapping ,the LPG ECU works like a piggy back and quickly makes calculations from the original petrol map.. so no mapping required.
Daz you're talking bModern vehicals when converting to gas no not even need mapping ,the LPG ECU works like a piggy back and quickly makes calculations from the original petrol map.. so no mapping required.
ks again mate, a piggy back is exactly what I didn't want.Because a piggy back is a flawed & compromised system that has no place on my car.
What you need is one ECU with two switchable fuel/spark maps, one map for petrol & the other for LPG.
Each completely separate, yet both driven by the same ECU using the same sensors and all mappable using the same software.
The difficult bit is creating such an ECU that also has the ability to fire petrol injectors on map 1 & the very different low impedance LPG injectors on map 2.
The tank solution has been resolved, as has the luggage & roof storage challenges.
And before you ask, no roof rack or trailer is required, the car remains looking totally standard externally.
The ECU & bespoke loom part of the project is already in place.
Only the accumulation of the required funds slows the project, watch this space
ks ,alot of the modern petrol cars have a manufactured ecu which plugs in and feeds of the Petrol map (it just makes the calculations off the original map)..this means no mapping is needed ..My mate has a V6 Mitsibushi four wheel drive it was almost a plug in install .The injectors holes were pre drilled in the factory ..Ok i agree it can not be done on these old engines.!
Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Thursday 6th September 14:38
hello mate, cheers for thatSILICONEKID340HP said:
Im not talking bks ,alot of the modern petrol cars have a manufactured ecu which plugs in and feeds of the Petrol map (it just makes the calculations off the original map)..this means no mapping is needed ..My mate has a V6 Mitsibushi four wheel drive it was almost a plug in install .The injectors holes were pre drilled in the factory ..
Ok i agree it can not be done on these old engines.!
My apologies Daz I didn't mean to offend you.ks ,alot of the modern petrol cars have a manufactured ecu which plugs in and feeds of the Petrol map (it just makes the calculations off the original map)..this means no mapping is needed ..My mate has a V6 Mitsibushi four wheel drive it was almost a plug in install .The injectors holes were pre drilled in the factory ..Ok i agree it can not be done on these old engines.!
Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Thursday 6th September 14:38
Trust me I'm very aware of how a piggy back ECU works, it's exactly what you would be forced to buy if you wanted to convert a TVR/Range Rover still equipped with the 14CUX ECU.
Piggy backs have been around for donkey's years mate, as such the idea is ancient and fundamentally flawed. I'll explain.
All it does is says "If the master ECU says the petrol injectors should be open for "X" milliseconds then the LPG injectors should be open for "Y" milliseconds.
That's exactly why it's flawed, you're always referencing the wrong information then trying to twist it to suit the requirements of a very different fuel with it's very different requirements.
From an engineering perspective a piggy back is most definitely a compromised solution to the challenges of running on two very different fuels.
It's like the original man is talking Italian (Mr Petrol), giving his instructions to a translator who then translates the Italian instructions into English so the English guy (Mr LPG) knows what to do.
Why use a translator to covert the wrong language into the one Mr LPG understands when you could cut out the translation altogether and get the instructions directly in the correct language from the outset.
Your piggy back ECU is just the translator, it doesn't matter how good it is, it's never going to convert the petrol map into an LPG map perfectly.
Sack the translator (piggy back ECU) by fitting a genuine dual fuel ECU and you are always talking directly to the right man in the right language.
Simon says said:
Hang on a moment Ivan 
............ you may be eligible for an OAP deal 
OAP my @rse ............ you may be eligible for an OAP deal 
however, what if I pretended I was fitting it to your car instead of mine, that might get me a few quid off - not much chance of a warranty claim through usage 
Is it true that the people at Google Earth thought they had a software issue because your car was always in the same place after every update?
Ribol said:
Simon says said:
Hang on a moment Ivan ............ you may be eligible for an OAP deal
OAP my @rse ............ you may be eligible for an OAP deal however, what if I pretended I was fitting it to your car instead of mine, that might get me a few quid off - not much chance of a warranty claim through usage Is it true that the people at Google Earth thought they had a software issue because your car was always in the same place after every update?
Ribol said:
Simon says said:
Hang on a moment Ivan ............ you may be eligible for an OAP deal
OAP my @rse ............ you may be eligible for an OAP deal however, what if I pretended I was fitting it to your car instead of mine, that might get me a few quid off - not much chance of a warranty claim through usage Is it true that the people at Google Earth thought they had a software issue because your car was always in the same place after every update?
.... 
you may have a point about the Warranty though 
ChimpofDarkness said:
SILICONEKID340HP said:
Im not talking bks ,alot of the modern petrol cars have a manufactured ecu which plugs in and feeds of the Petrol map (it just makes the calculations off the original map)..this means no mapping is needed ..My mate has a V6 Mitsibushi four wheel drive it was almost a plug in install .The injectors holes were pre drilled in the factory ..
Ok i agree it can not be done on these old engines.!
My apologies Daz I didn't mean to offend you.ks ,alot of the modern petrol cars have a manufactured ecu which plugs in and feeds of the Petrol map (it just makes the calculations off the original map)..this means no mapping is needed ..My mate has a V6 Mitsibushi four wheel drive it was almost a plug in install .The injectors holes were pre drilled in the factory ..Ok i agree it can not be done on these old engines.!
Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Thursday 6th September 14:38
Trust me I'm very aware of how a piggy back ECU works, it's exactly what you would be forced to buy if you wanted to convert a TVR/Range Rover still equipped with the 14CUX ECU.
Piggy backs have been around for donkey's years mate, as such the idea is ancient and fundamentally flawed. I'll explain.
All it does is says "If the master ECU says the petrol injectors should be open for "X" milliseconds then the LPG injectors should be open for "Y" milliseconds.
That's exactly why it's flawed, you're always referencing the wrong information then trying to twist it to suit the requirements of a very different fuel with it's very different requirements.
From an engineering perspective a piggy back is most definitely a compromised solution to the challenges of running on two very different fuels.
It's like the original man is talking Italian (Mr Petrol), giving his instructions to a translator who then translates the Italian instructions into English so the English guy (Mr LPG) knows what to do.
Why use a translator to covert the wrong language into the one Mr LPG understands when you could cut out the translation altogether and get the instructions directly in the correct language from the outset.
Your piggy back ECU is just the translator, it doesn't matter how good it is, it's never going to convert the petrol map into an LPG map perfectly.
Sack the translator (piggy back ECU) by fitting a genuine dual fuel ECU and you are always talking directly to the right man in the right language.
Where and when is the install ,will you be going for the lovato or similar Italian kits ..
My next house will have a very large LPG tank at 28p a litre..
Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Thursday 6th September 17:53
SILICONEKID340HP said:
Thanks ,please tell meabout the LPG tank and filler position ..I have an ECU with two maps ..so could be used.
Where and when is the install ,will you be going for the lovato or similar Italian kits ..
My next house will have a very large LPG tank at 28p a litre..
Ok Daz you've drawn me in again, one last time then no more about LPG for a while I promise.Where and when is the install ,will you be going for the lovato or similar Italian kits ..
My next house will have a very large LPG tank at 28p a litre..
Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Thursday 6th September 17:53
- Prins VSI vaporiser rated at over 350hp
- Keihin Yellow Dot injectors rated at over 350hp
- Assorted pipework, filler, cut off solenoid, filter, FlashLube system ect ect
- All controlled by my Canems dual fuel ECU with bespoke dual fuel wiring loom (no piggy back ECU or spliced wires involved)
So I don't need to bother with an inferior piggy back based Lovato, BRC, Bigas, OVML, Stag or Romano kit that's trying to work out what the LPG injectors need to do from a petrol map.
Add to this my 300 mile tank arrangement that has minimal impact on touring luggage capacity, combined with an innovative roof storage solution, and it's job done.
Selecting the very best components and thinking outside the box certainly isn't cheap, but experience tells me in the long run it usually works out cheaper to the job properly in the first place.
I know a lot of people don't get the LPG TVR idea, it's really just a stupid fetish of mine.
But if when you are thinking LPG you are have in mind crude piggy back systems cobbled onto old Range Rovers done on a budget, I strongly encourage you to update your perceptions, just like the LPG systems have been updated and massively improved in the last few years.
Now enough gassing, lets get back to the turbo
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