LED Headlights

LED Headlights

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ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

178 months

Friday 5th May 2017
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I'm still running my reflector friendly shielded gen 4 LED H4s and would not consider returning to traditional incandescent bulbs, after careful adjustment I do not get flashed or cause issues to other drivers.

The improvement in light output my gen 4 LEDs offer was well worth the £50 I paid and I've seen no real evidence to say the way more expensive alternative from Philips offers any genuine advantage over what I have.

My LED H4s are way brighter, offer much better visibility, draw a lot less current and have 10 times the life of a traditional incandescent bulb... I consider them well worth the £50 investment.

FiF

43,964 posts

250 months

Friday 5th May 2017
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Apart from E marking of course.

I agree the current price is ridiculous, but the beam pattern is much better.

Reason for posting was to simply record the development not criticise your setup.

It's interesting that this is yet another area where technical development is rapidly outpacing legislation.

GC8

19,910 posts

189 months

Friday 5th May 2017
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Theyre very nice.

mezzogio

59 posts

167 months

Monday 27th August 2018
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Hello Chimpongas
Though it's an old discussion I would like to thank you for all your efforts to explain what you did in this forum.
I did eventually follow your advice and had LED 40 W 4000 lm H1 led head lights installed on my Griffith 500.
As you said, it's day and night compared to original equipment.
Thanks again.
Regards

Steve_D

13,737 posts

257 months

Monday 27th August 2018
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mezzogio said:
Hello Chimpongas
Though it's an old discussion I would like to thank you for all your efforts to explain what you did in this forum.
I did eventually follow your advice and had LED 40 W 4000 lm H1 led head lights installed on my Griffith 500.
As you said, it's day and night compared to original equipment.
Thanks again.
Regards
As we, and technology, have moved on in the 2 years since COG did his précis can you let us know the make and model you used, and if relevant, why you selected it.
Thanks
Steve

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

178 months

Tuesday 28th August 2018
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For anyone with a reasonable budget there is now a better and properly engineered option for upgrading your Chimaera headlights, at £550 a pair these Nolden projector LED headlights are not going to be in everyone's price bracket but in my opinion they are the ultimate compromise between classic silvered reflector looks and the unparalleled performance and sharp cutoff you get from a modern projector lens. I've witnessed these headlights on a Defender and they are definitely the next step up from the LED H4s in my 7" Mk1 Golf reflector headlights (Mk3 faired headlight conversion).



https://www.4x4overlander.com/product/nolden-headl...

Obviously these are the common 7" size units used in Land Rover Defenders, Jeeps and pretty much every Brit classic from the 60's/70's making them more suited to Chimaeras with the Mk3 faired headlight set up, but with some fabrication work I'm sure they could be made to fit an earlier car.

In respect of looks he above Nolden projector LED 7" headlight is about as far as I would want to aesthetically stray away from a traditional reflector headlight, perhaps still a step too far on a MK1/2 Chimaera with its open headlights but I suspect they will not stand out at all sat behind my Mk3 faired headlight covers. The TVR Chimaera is a car that has beautiful classic lines, so I think we need to accept other 7" LED projector headlight designs like these JW Speakers would look absolutely gopping!



The above are meant to be fantastic performing lights, but to look at... well lets just say hurl, they are also £700 for a genuine set, anything cheaper will be fakes!

However, here's the Nolden projector LED headlights in a 70th anniversary edition Land Rover Defender that received these lights from new, personally I think they do a great job of incorporating a modern projector lens in a 7" headlight while keeping it looking very close to a classic reflector bowl traditional headlight unit.



Sure, the Noldens are expensive at £550 a pair but to my eye they are the best compromise between classic looks vs the clear performance benefits of using a modern projector lens, they are also OEM standard having gone through all the certification and standards new car headlights must meet, the Noldens have been properly designed by optical engineers to throw the light where you need it without causing issues for oncoming drivers.

That's a long way off just fitting a set of £40 Chinese made LED H4 bulb replacement units into a reflector headlight as I did, saying that I would never go back to incandescent bulbs and for the money these new tech LED H4s simply can't be beaten. People should be aware just fitting LED H4s in reflector headlights is fine but you will need to adjust the headlights after fitting them as your dip beams will be too high which will dazzle oncoming drivers.

Once you've adjusted your headlights down so you dont blind oncoming drivers what you'll find is you've got amazing full beam performance but dips that dont quite have the spread and reach you need, don't get me wrong the pool of light on dip will be extremely bright but it will be focused in a fairly tight and short reaching area right in front of the car. I solved this issue with a set of LP270 driving lights mounted low, by rights I shouldn't be using driving lights on dip but because they're so low mounted oncoming drivers don't seem bothered by them and they do an amazing job of solving the LED H4s in a reflector headlight dip beam reach issue.







However, I did end up paying £250 for the amazing PIAA LP270s (they're now £300 a set!), so with my LED H4 bulb replacement units I still spent roughly £300 on upgrading my headlights, plus the M3 headlight conversion of course. When funds permit I'll be fitting a set of the £550 Nolden projector LED headlights, these with my PIAA LP270s will make for a devastatingly good yet responsible Chimaera lighting set up.





900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Tuesday 28th August 2018
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I did research the Noldens - predominantly on the strength of them being OEM on some late special edition Defenders - before settling on the Truck-Lites for my Mk3 conversion - it's always a question of suck it and see but in the online comparison of a gazillion 7" LED headlights by a third party that I found, they didn't seem to distinguish themselves enough to warrant the premium over the very well regarded Truck-Lites. That, and I wanted to do the light pods in satin black rather than body colour anyway to achieve a similar effect to the OEM rear lights, so the black bezels and dark reflectors of the Truck-Lites fitted in perfectly from an aesthetic point of view.








Edited by 900T-R on Tuesday 28th August 10:55

Sardonicus

18,928 posts

220 months

Tuesday 28th August 2018
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Eric thats looks good wink I reckon you made the right choice choosing black rather than body colour for the cowls I reckon that would of looked strange in red scratchchin

mezzogio

59 posts

167 months

Thursday 30th August 2018
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HI,
Following request, these are the LEDS I have installed on my Griff.

Steve_D

13,737 posts

257 months

Thursday 30th August 2018
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mezzogio said:
HI,
Following request, these are the LEDS I have installed on my Griff.
Many thanks.

sadly the first thing that came up when I googled them was a vid from a guy saying they only lasted 200 hours before packing up which kind of leaves me back where I started.

Steve

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

178 months

Thursday 30th August 2018
quotequote all
Mine are well over three years old now and still giving strong reliable service, I appreciate this isn't much help though as I can't remember the brand and I long since through the box away rolleyes

The problem with these Chinese H4s is the brands change like the wind anyway, so you can't really buy on brand of even trust the same brand will be consistent in quality for that matter. If you've ever done business with the Chinese and had something made there you'll understand why, to apply our Western 'Trusted Brand' thinking to Chinese made products is to leave yourself wide open to disappointment at some point.

The frustrating thing about the Chinese is they can make any product to very highest standards and contrary to their reputation very often do, to say everything coming out of China is poorly made would be to show a complete misunderstanding of their manufacturing capabilities which in many cases is of the highest order.

However, the problems are two fold:

Firstly the Chinese will happily make you anything from the very highest quality to utter rubbish, if you're having something made in China and you try to negotiate the price down don't be surprised if they agree but you then find your product is now severely compromised in quality.

Secondly there are no contracts that hold water in China, in the West its normal practice to contractually bind the manufacturer to specific documented quality standards, if the quality falls below the standards enforceable penalties apply. Go to Asia to have something made and it's frighteningly common for your Chinese manufacturer to start of making your product to very high standards only to drop the quality dramatically six months into the relationship, with no enforceable contract you're screwed. Friends of mine who have products made in China seem to go through this cycle every six to twelve months, it usually involves another trip to China to strike another deal with lots of promised only to end with the new manufacturer dropping the quality just like the last after the typical honeymoon period.

The truth is buying these Chinese LED H4s is a complete punt, I wouldn't go on brand as this is no indication of product quality or performance whatsoever, my advice is look at the sellers image and try to buy a model with emitter shielding and better still the ability to rotate the emitter body so you can fine tune them to your reflector. I also recommend taking the lumen rating with a pinch of salt, the Chinese have long since worked out they can increase their sales against their competitors simply by over inflating their lumen figure.

The only sure fired way to eliminate the 'Pot Luck' LED bulb purchasing gamble is to avoid the Chinese ones altogether and go with a genuine set of Philips 12953BW H4 X-Treme Ultinon LEDs:

https://www.philips.co.in/c-p/12953BWX2/x-treme-ul...

But as they are in the order of £130 a set you will pay for this peace of mind, and you'll need to be 100% confident you're not buying fakes as there are loads of snide Philips LED bulb replacement units flooding the market. Saying that if you get lucky and buy a good Chinese set as I did they will likely work just as well as the Philips ones, which are almost certainly made in China anyway, but no matter what you go for these LED units all work far better in a projector system than traditional reflector headlight bowls designed for traditional halogen filament bulbs.

Basically the whole buying LED bulb replacements gamble is a bit of friggin nightmare rolleyes, admittedly I enjoyed outstanding results from my £40 Chinese set but it was luck more than judgement if I'm honest. Like I say when funds permit (£550 a pair) I'll be sticking a set of these Nolden projector LED headlight units behind the perspex covers of my Mk3 faired headlight conversion.



Or you may wish to spend in the order of £300 and go with a set of Truck-Lites:



Truck-Lites appear like they may throw the LED light back into a properly designed reflector for the LED emitter and then bounce it forward in a controlled way onto the road ahead, if I'm right they work exactly like my excellent PIAA 270 LED driving lights which are truly outstanding performers... especially given their tiny size!

If this eBay listing is for a set of genuine Truck-Lites then £220 is a very good price indeed and will easily be the best balance between price and performance.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Truck-Lite-LED-Headlamp...

Eric (900T-R) has fitted Truck-Lites so we really need a proper review from him ears

900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Thursday 30th August 2018
quotequote all
ChimpOnGas said:
However, the problems are two fold:

Firstly the Chinese will happily make you anything from the very highest quality to utter rubbish, if you're having something made in China and you try to negotiate the price down don't be surprised if they agree but you then find your product is now severely compromised in quality.

Secondly there are no contracts that hold water in China, in the West its normal practice to contractually bind the manufacturer to specific documented quality standards, if the quality falls below the standards enforceable penalties apply. Go to Asia to have something made and it's frighteningly common for your Chinese manufacturer to start of making your product to very high standards only to drop the quality dramatically six months into the relationship, with no enforceable contract you're screwed. Friends of mine who have products made in China seem to go through this cycle every six to twelve months, it usually involves another trip to China to strike another deal with lots of promised only to end with the new manufacturer dropping the quality just like the last after the typical honeymoon period.
If the tales that suppliers told me when I was writing for the rmanufacturing industry (and now in the high end audio industry as well) are to be taken at face value, the above is 100% correct. If you don't have some of your own people there, this is what will happen.

As for the Truck-Lites - I've just about finished readying the car for MOT pending a second pair of eyes to catch any b*ll*cks I may have dropped in the past 19 months. Will keep y'all posted. (y)

As for pricing, the lowest I found here was 498 euro including VAT & shipping with the possibility to purchase VAT-free as I have a valid VAT #, thus bringing the price down to ~418 euro. Buying from the USA directly would bring the price down to like 320 euro, only for the customs charges to bring it up to the same level again... As for significantly cheaper options - caveat emptor, there's lots of fake Truck-Lites about as the market for these things in the US is huge (they fit pretty much any round-headlight Jeep for starters, and the Jeep fraternity is rather keen on modification/customization).

smile

FiF

43,964 posts

250 months

Thursday 30th August 2018
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Can agree that Chinese manufacturing is a nightmare, and it's not much better if you build a factory out there once your start up management has returned home leaving it in the hands of the locals. That's also assuming that some enterprising sod hasn't ripped off intellectual property and set up their own production unit.

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

178 months

Thursday 30th August 2018
quotequote all
Fakes a plenty indeed!

However, I've been following the price of Truck-Lites and they do seem to be coming down on a global basis, this appears to be driven my the manufacturer themselves and probably in response to the competition from the Far East where some the Chinese projector type 7" headlights apparently actually work really well and can be had for £120 a pair.

From what I've read the projector design works better with an LED emitter than even a specific LED friendly reflector type as is the Truck-Lite, saying that most 7" projector units look dreadful even behind faired headlights and just aren't in keeping with the classic looks of a Chimaera at all.





hurl

The best compromise for me are the the Noldens but they are pricey and I still wouldn't put them on a Mk1/2 open headlight car which for most brings us full circle to the Truck-Lites again. However, take a look at what Singer did which shows us all the way forward, they went to Hella and had proper projector headlights made.



Like the rest of the car this is the 'no cost too great, no compromise' solution in Singer's bid to create the very best improved classic money can buy. I'd put money on the Singer lights being devastatingly good, but for the amount they charge for their car's you'd want them to be truly outstanding.

The thing is (and this is a personal taste thing of course), I dont think the piggy eye projectors they commissioned from Hella look right at all on the car, not vomit inducing wrong like a set of JW Speakers you understand but definitely not the classic enhancing looks I feel a 60's 911 deserves nono


900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Thursday 30th August 2018
quotequote all
ChimpOnGas said:
Fakes a plenty indeed!

However, I've been following the price of Truck-Lites and they do seem to be coming down on a global basis, this appears to be driven my the manufacturer themselves and probably in response to the competition from the Far East where some the Chinese projector type 7" headlights apparently actually work really well and can be had for £120 a pair.
And of course, we are behind the curve here in The Netherlands... rolleyes Most common price here for the Truck-Lites is either 265 or 299 euro... apiece/. :shock: No one had them in stock, either...

Agree the projector types may be more efficient but look absolutely gopping. The reflector lights however look pretty much like they've been on the car all along, which is what I was after. thumbup

A couple of general remarks about the Truck-Lites.

They look and feel rather substantial. The box proudly states the lights are military spec and it doesn't seem they are kidding. On the minus side, there has been no provisions made whatsoever for mounting them - no holes, threads, lips, no nothing. Nothing insurmountable, but it takes a fair bit of creativity, appropriation of easily available hardware and hours to fit them to the back of the Mk3 pods with some kind of height adjustability.

They are rather smaller than the inside diameter of the pods too - I had some plastic mounting rings for a 6.5" car speaker and cut the inside so they fitted fairly tightly around the lens on the inside, then inserted a pair of screws halfway up on either side so the whole thing could pivot to some degree (or rather +/- 5 degrees or so wink ).

On the back, the ideal means to hold the lamp in place would be a steel ring of sufficient strength to hold the light in place, but that was a bit beyond my fabricating capabilities so I used four steel L-pieces (for domestic window frames) that I bent/hammered into a Z-shape. The left and right ones screw straight into the pod where the screws are, the upper is sprung front and back and the lower is sprung with a wing nut for beam adjustment in the vertical plane (lower/higher).

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

178 months

Thursday 30th August 2018
quotequote all
Good feedback Eric thumbup

Do let us all know how they perform on the road too.

900T-R said:
Agree the projector types may be more efficient but look absolutely gopping. The reflector lights however look pretty much like they've been on the car all along, which is what I was after. thumbup
I couldn't agree more, but I think the Noldens manage to pull off a good compromise for a projector, and sat hidden behind my Mk3 perspex covers they should look fine, I suspect you'd have to stare right in there and be a bit of a fussy TVR geek to notice they're not actually a traditional reflector bowl.

Heer's that Nolden equipped 70th anniversary edition Land Rover Defender again, personally I think the Noldens do a great job of incorporating a modern projector lens in a 7" headlight that very closely mimics the look of a traditional reflector bowl headlight.



The Truck-Lites would to my mind be virtually indistinguishable from the Mk1 Golf headlights on a Mk3 setup which from your photos does seem to be the case. It's quite clear and in an ideal world, to really get the very best from the new generation of LED emitters they really need to be paired with an LED specific reflector as with my PIAA LP270s and the Truck-Lites, but that shouldn't put people of putting a set of LED H4s in their standard headlights as the results can be a big step up from even the best incandescent bulbs yes

mezzogio

59 posts

167 months

Friday 31st August 2018
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To Steve-D:

Thanks for the tip, I did not googled the reference before buying.

However, 200 hours at 50 miles an hour make still 10000 miles which corresponds to at least 30 or 40000 miles ( all in all including in daylight). At least for me, it should be OK.

Regards

900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Friday 31st August 2018
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Just looked at the eBay link for the TruckLites @ £220, unfortunately that price is for a single lamp (the 7" are often used on Harley Davidsons). The same seller is listing a pair for £435...

GC8

19,910 posts

189 months

Friday 31st August 2018
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With regards to fitting the lights: they’re smooth because they’re a sealed beam replacement.

7” sealed beam lamp frames might be available. Probably more common in America.

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

178 months

Friday 31st August 2018
quotequote all
900T-R said:
Just looked at the eBay link for the TruckLites @ £220, unfortunately that price is for a single lamp (the 7" are often used on Harley Davidsons). The same seller is listing a pair for £435...
yikes

That does however mean the Nolden projectors are only £50 more a side scratchchin