LPG Converstions

LPG Converstions

Author
Discussion

bababoom

Original Poster:

278 posts

57 months

Sunday 9th August 2015
quotequote all
Anyone had this done?
Ive been using the car a lot lately and its getting quite expensive, Im using it a lot more than I thought I would be when I first bought it biggrin
The biggest problem I can see is where does the tank go?
I expect it would have to go in the boot but what about the roof?
and if its in the boot and I have a rear end shunt....

igiveup

2,874 posts

221 months

Sunday 9th August 2015
quotequote all
You need to speak to Chimpongas, or have a look at his post here

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

QBee

16,412 posts

83 months

Sunday 9th August 2015
quotequote all
LPG tanks are no more dangerous than petrol tanks.
Chimpongas is your man. He will help you.
He has 2 gas tanks and a petrol tank in the same space as the standard petrol tank.
Read his thread - it will take you a while.
It's a good conversion and he has sorted out all the issues, so yours will be hassle free.

ClassiChimi

8,792 posts

88 months

Sunday 9th August 2015
quotequote all
So when you have a moment Chimpongas, with all the development work you've done to your car to get to this point.
What would it cost to convert a Chimaera to your spec on LPG
Assuming the donor car already has mappable ignition wink
Who could do it and who would you recommend,
Hopefully the OP will also be interested in your answers.

ChimpOnGas

8,475 posts

118 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
ClassiChimi said:
So when you have a moment Chimpongas, with all the development work you've done to your car to get to this point.
What would it cost to convert a Chimaera to your spec on LPG
Assuming the donor car already has mappable ignition wink
Who could do it and who would you recommend,
Hopefully the OP will also be interested in your answers.
Firstly what you should know (no matter what anyone tells you) is that the TVR Chimaera is an excellent candidate for an LPG conversion. For one, the Rover V8 is an extremely well proven gas friendly engine as demonstrated by literally tens of thousands of converted Range Rovers, for two, the boot space in a Chimaera is huge for a sports car making the job of locating the LPG tank/tanks that much easier.

In my opinion to convert the car properly you ideally need to start with the excellent Canems Dual Fuel ECU, but for this to make financial sense you really need to be already considering an engine management system swap (MegaSquirt, Emerald, Omex, MBE, Canems ect ect).

If you're considering such a change to enjoy the undisputed benefits on petrol but you also have the feeling in the future you might like to enjoy the benefits of LPG you can easily justify the small additional cost of the Dual Fuel Canems system to yourself because it will pay for itself in the long run.

In fact if you compare something like the excellent MBE petrol only engine management system & install from Powers Performance with a Canems Dual Fuel system & install from Lloyd Specialist Developments there's probably going to be nothing in it on cost. But only the Canems Dual Fuel system will give you the proper integrated LPG option in the future.

I ran the Canems Dual Fuel system on petrol only for about a year before activating the LPG element, because the Canems Dual Fuel system gives you all the same benefits on petrol you can expect when converting to MegaSquirt, Emerald, Omex, MBE, Canems (petrol only system). It's just with the Canems Dual Fuel system you also have that LPG option waiting in the wings for when you're ready to explore the benefits of gas.

If you just want to go LPG on your existing Lucas 14CUX & distributor system you can, it's been done thousands of times on all those Range Rover Classics, and such an exercise can be delivered very cheaply too. But to be honest things have moved on massively and such systems are never going to operate (what I would consider) exceptionally well as you'll be using very outdated LPG technology. Ultimately the fact you can't easily map the 14CUX fuel system or the ignition side also presents big limitations when looking to burn LPG.

I'm not saying it won't work, just that you really aren't giving yourself the best chance of delivering a nice drivable car that isnt going to lose a significant chunk of performance. This may well be acceptable on an old Range Rover but ask yourself if it's really the way to do things on a TVR Chimaera that's meant to be a thrilling and enjoyable sports car?.

If you already have an aftermarket engine management system like a MegaSquirt, Emerald, Omex, MBE, or even the Canems standard petrol only ECU you could convert to dual fuel using one of the many LPG piggyback ECUs. This will work quite well if installed correctly but it's still nowhere near as good as the Canems Dual Fuel system that has the LPG injector drivers and other LPG specific features in one box all controlled directly by the same software (Map 1 = Petrol & Map 2 = LPG).

Each conversion will be slightly different dependent on how far you want to go and how deep your pockets are, but if you wanted to copy my proven system I will be happy to draw up a list of components for you, but in this case you'll need to start with that rather special Canems dual fuel ECU.

I've already proved LPG can be made to work exceptionally well in a TVR even though there were many ignorant doubters expressing their negative opinions when I embarked on the project. I have shown it's perfectly possible to completely eliminate all the old issues associated with LPG conversions using the latest technology, knowledge and advanced components.

I continue to develop my system not because it isnt working brilliantly (it is) but because I love the challenge of continually making it better & better. As it stands on both petrol & gas my dual fuel Chimaera is already streets ahead in performance & drivability of a petrol Chimaera running the 14CUX system.

The objective of my project was to learn how LPG behaves differently to petrol and ultimately develop the best gaseous LPG system humanly possible. It's an exercise in understanding chemistry, physics and a way to deep dive into the fascinating world of engine management.

For me it's a hobby project, a way to exercise my brain and to see how far things can be pushed using modern technology. The results are devastating fuel economy and truly excellent levels of refinement, practicality with absolutely no loss in performance or TVR character.

It certainly has not been a quick cheap exercise to half my fuel bills that delivers an immediate return on my investment. Saying that, now we've done the development there is a proven recipe that can be copied for a lot less than I've invested (development is never cheap).

In summary, if you want to follow my lead and do an LPG conversion properly on your TVR Chimaera I'll be happy to advise you, but you will also need the services of Lloyd Specialists Developments and David Hampshire of Canems Engine Management Systems. Their combined electronics, engine management, mapping skills and understanding of the Canems Dual Fuel ECU is way beyond anything I could ever hope to come close to.

Keep in mind there are two development vehicles that currently run this system:

1. The Lloyd Specialist Developments own 4.6 litre Range Rover

2. My TVR Chimaera

So you can see if you want to tap into all the available knowledge you'll need chat with us, and we're here to help thumbup

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 10th August 10:41

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bababoom

Original Poster:

278 posts

57 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
Very informing post there thanks for taking the time to right it up.
Its not something I would be looking to do myself just reading your build thread on lpg give me an headache bow
I was thinking of one of these drive in places that do it all for you.


Edited by bababoom on Monday 10th August 10:59

ChimpOnGas

8,475 posts

118 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
bababoom said:
Very informing post there thanks for taking the time to right it up.
Its not something I would be looking to do myself just reading your build thread on lpg give me an headache bow
I was thinking of one of these drive in places that do it all for you.
Edited by bababoom on Monday 10th August 10:59
Ok so here's the rub... if you just went to a regular LPG conversion specialist with your standard TVR Chimaera they will want to give you the same systems they've been fitting for years to Range Rover Classics because they run exactly the same 14CUX fuel and distributor ignition systems.

And there's nothing wrong with that on an old Range Rover, you'll also probably find someone that will do such a conversion for less than £1000 (using fairly basic components).

But I guarantee you it'll not be very efficient and it almost certainly will have a number of unwanted drivability traits that LPG conversions are often still maligned for by the gas doubters out there.

The fact is things have moved on massively in the world of engine management, petrol injected systems are a world away from what they were in the early 90's and because all of the LPG piggyback systems use the OEM petrol ECU for data these systems are only ever as sophisticated as what the manufacturer gave you on petrol side in the first place.

In the case of the TVR Chimaera that's the very outdated distributor ignition system and the rather difficult to map 14CUX fuel system, neither of these two systems talk to each other and neither are best suited to take advantage of some of the very innovative and sophisticated LPG piggyback ECU's now available.

If you're converting a petrol vehicle from 2010 on it'll likely have fully sequential port injection, and it'll certainly have wide band closed loop AFR control and an OB2 connector. None of which you have with the old Lucas systems.

With your 2010 car you simply plug your sophisticated 21st century LPG ECU into the OB2 connector, wire up a few other sensors and solenoids and you immediately have a fully sequential 21st century LPG system. You just cant do that with your Chimaera so you're forced back in time to the old technology LPG systems that were designed when Range Rovers were running the same Lucas systems TVR gave us.

The 14CUX and distributor is already a weakness on a petrol only TVR Chimaera which is why so many people upgrade to a fully mappable engine management system with wasted spark even when they have no intention of ever going down the LPG rout. On LPG the Lucas system is positively a barrier to a good LPG drivability, efficiency & performance which is why I'm suggesting to do the job properly ideally you need to start by junking the lot for something more modern.

As I've already pointed out you can make a MegaSquirt, Omex, Emerald or MBE ect work with a reasonably modern LPG piggyback ECU and it should work quite well, but the next step up from that would be the Canems Dual Fuel ECU because it's a proper integrated system you build unique first hand maps for both the petrol & LPG, rather brilliantly this removes the need for that LPG piggyback altogether.

The bottom line is "You pays your money and makes your choice" and it does greatly depend on your budget and what you personally consider acceptable drivability, efficiency & performance.

In a nutshell you have three options:

1. Stay with your current 14CUX and distributor and use old early 90's LPG tech to create a "more or less" system for around £1,000

2. Fit a decent LPG piggyback to your existing MegaSquirt, Omex, Emerald or MBE and use map 2 for gas running it through that piggyback LPG ECU

3. Fit the only fully integrated LPG system out there for our cars, the Canems Dual Fuel system

If you already have a MegaSquirt, Omex, Emerald or MBE system you could probably get a piggyback LPG conversion up and running respectably for £1,500 all in, but you'll need someone who can map the system, competent enough to correctly wire up the LPG piggyback ECU, and who ultimately believes in the project.

If you are on the verge of pulling the trigger on a MegaSquirt, Omex, Emerald or MBE system already because you can see the clear benefits on petrol alone, but you also think you may like to go LPG in the future. You may as well start with the Canems Dual Fuel system in the first place because it'll be cheaper that way in the end and you'll be getting all the LPG specific elements up front.

I started by saying the TVR Chimaera makes an excellent candidate for an LPG conversion, and it certainly does, but I'll end by saying because the car starts off burdened with a rather outdated engine management system (if you can call it that) a Chimaera is never going to be the cheapest car to convert if you want it to drive really nicely on gas.

Saying all that, once you have a system that works perfectly you will never go back to petrol.

Filling up with 300 miles of LPG for £40 rather than the £70 for petrol to cover the same distance just never gets dull. Suddenly the car goes from an occasional toy that gets used infrequently because it's expensive to fuel, to something you can just hop in and use every day without thinking about the cost.

My dual fuel TVR Chimaera consistently delivers between 45 & 50mpg (petrol cost equivalent) when I'm burning LPG. It's actually cheaper to fuel than my wife's 1.4 litre Nissan Micra and easily matches the pence per mile of my company car... which believe it or not is a Toyota Prius rolleyes

Gas is good.. But on a TVR you really need to do it properly.. yes

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 10th August 12:22

pjac67

2,040 posts

191 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
We should all (those who are interested in LPG conversions) bow to Daves' knowledge and investment of time and money into the development of his car and the cost and benefits will hopefully shared by many who can reap the benefits over the years.

One of the biggest questions is (as Dave has already mentioned) is how far you go with the technoo;ogy/cost and how long you intend keeping your car to make it worthwhile (both in financial terms and design of your system).

Just to try and answer the question on cost options;

1. a simple 'piggy back' system (costing £1000- £1400) can payback within 10,000 miles although you may have to live with some small compromises in driving charcteristics and are happy keeping your exisitng petrol tank;

2. although if you do the above and then decideto get the best out of the fuel/driveability/performance ideally a bespoke mapping session with someone convesant in both fuels and there characteristics (eg Lloyds guys) would cost in the region of £600 - £1000;

3. to get the best out of 2. you need a proper ECU/Engine management system (if you haven't already got one then as Dave suggest a Canems makes sense which can combine some of the costs above...).

4. if you wish to have a bespoke fuel tank then add ££ accordingly.

As Dave has said you pays your money....

ChimpOnGas

8,475 posts

118 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
pjac67 said:
We should all (those who are interested in LPG conversions) bow to Daves' knowledge and investment of time and money into the development of his car and the cost and benefits will hopefully shared by many who can reap the benefits over the years.

One of the biggest questions is (as Dave has already mentioned) is how far you go with the technoo;ogy/cost and how long you intend keeping your car to make it worthwhile (both in financial terms and design of your system).

Just to try and answer the question on cost options;

1. a simple 'piggy back' system (costing £1000- £1400) can payback within 10,000 miles although you may have to live with some small compromises in driving characteristics and are happy keeping your existing petrol tank;

2. although if you do the above and then decide to get the best out of the fuel/driveability/performance ideally a bespoke mapping session with someone conversant in both fuels and there characteristics (eg Lloyds guys) would cost in the region of £600 - £1000;

3. to get the best out of 2. you need a proper ECU/Engine management system (if you haven't already got one then as Dave suggest a Canems makes sense which can combine some of the costs above...).

4. if you wish to have a bespoke fuel tank then add ££ accordingly.

As Dave has said you pays your money....
All good points well said by Paul there.

All I'll add is if you go down the after market engine management system rout (Omex, Emerald, MegaSquirt, MBE, ect) using a LPG piggyback ECU, while it has the potential to work really well just don't expect your LPG guy to give you the best results.

There are lots of LPG conversion specialists out there, some good and some shockingly bad. But even the good ones are unlikely to properly understand your aftermarket engine management system. This will mean you'll be going back lots of times to try and get the thing working correctly which will end up being very costly with no real guarantees of success.

So you may assume your after market engine management system installer could get the system working correctly, well yes but he may well lack the LPG knowledge of a good LPG installer and be unfamiliar with the LPG piggyback software. Again you could end up with lots of costly return visits with no guarantee of success.

So as Paul quite rightly points out, what you really need with such a system is for it to be installed and mapped by someone conversant in both fuels and their special characteristics. Someone with both a deep understanding of the aftermarket engine management system but who is also happy to open his mind to what are often very sophisticated LPG ECUs too.

At the end of the day a piggyback ECU is only twisting the petrol injector durations in an attempt to operate the peak & hold LPG injectors and deliver the gas to give perfect drivability, economy & performance in all conditions. Essentially an LPG piggyback ECU is taking the wrong information and trying to make it work for a completely different fuel.

So ideally you'd be way better off deleting that piggyback altogether and mapping directly on both fuels, but for that you'll need the Canems dual fuel system.

In defense of an aftermarket petrol ECU running through a piggyback you do get a lot of rather nice LPG specific features thrown in with that LPG ECU. Things like gas temperature and gas pressure feedback/correction which I've actually just added to my Canems system.

But as for a cheap "drive in - drive out" LPG conversion on your standard 14CUX & distributor equipped TVR Chimaera, I'd say forget it.

Trying to take the cheap option in life seldom works out as best value in the long run..nono

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 10th August 12:57

QBee

16,412 posts

83 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
Action plan for LPG conversion:

1. Move house to Warminster in Wilts
2. Install a Chimpongas in your spare bedroom, with master key to garage.
3. Get Lloyd Specialist developments to fit the entire system under his direction and map it.

Will save you hours of frustration and many miles and hours of travelling.

SILICONEKID345HP

14,662 posts

170 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
I thought those PIGGY BACK ecu`s can`t change the spark ! if they can`t how can the system work correctly?

You mentioned in the past it can be done if you already have an after market ECU by using map 2 and wiring the piggy back ECU just for the drivers .

Are there may mappers who can map LPG ?

ChimpOnGas

8,475 posts

118 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
QBee said:
Action plan for LPG conversion:

1. Move house to Warminster in Wilts
2. Install a Chimpongas in your spare bedroom, with master key to your daughter's bedroom
3. Get Lloyd Specialist developments to fit the entire system (just let them get on with it)

Will save you hours of frustration and many miles and hours of travelling.
Nearly spot on, but slightly edited for accuracy thumbup

I'm not the expert here, Lloyd Specialist Developments are the experts!

I'm just the enthusiastic amateur with a perverted interest in alternative fuels... and your daughters evil

QBee

16,412 posts

83 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
There is a serious point here - try to choose an aftermarket ECU based on spec of course, but also on the availability of a top notch mapper locally to you.
400 mile round trips for remaps are a pain in the proverbial. You may well need to pay several visits, even to someone as good as Lloyds. (Just remembering our friends from Lancashire with KateV8, who also chose Lloyds)
So saving a few £££s on the cost of the kit may soon be gobbled up by your car's appetite for LPG or VPower getting issues ironed out.

ChimpOnGas

8,475 posts

118 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
SILICONEKID345HP said:
I thought those PIGGY BACK ecu`s can`t change the spark ! if they can`t how can the system work correctly?

You mentioned in the past it can be done if you already have an after market ECU by using map 2 and wiring the piggy back ECU just for the drivers .

Are there may mappers who can map LPG ?
It's very straightforward Daz, but you will need to listen this time rolleyes

When you switch to map 2 you are switching to a completely different fuel table, you are also switching to a completely different spark table.

So when you map the car on map 2 you make sure..

A. The fuel map as close as possible to what you want for LPG so the piggyback has less to do

B. The spark map is absolutely spot on for LPG - the LPG piggyback doesn't get involved in ignition management so you just make it perfect for 110Ron LPG in the first place

You only run map 2 through the LPG piggyback ECU, the petrol side remains exactly as it is.

When you switch to map two you also use the same switch to turn off the petrol injectors, turn on the LPG injectors, turn on the safety solenoids, and start the flow of gas. The LPG ECU will help you with all these features.

The petrol pump will still run when you're on map 2 (LPG), so the rail is always full of circulating petrol ready for when you switch back to map 1. When you do switch back to petrol the LPG piggyback shuts the LPG safety solenoids, turns off the LPG injectors and the petrol injectors back on.

Set up like this you can actually toggle seamlessly between both fuels on the move, you'll have the perfect ignition for both fuels, the perfect fuel map for petrol, and very very nearly the perfect fuel map for LPG too.

You'll also enjoy all the LPG specific features afforded by the dedicated LPG piggyback ECU, many of which are super sophisticated these days.

So don't rule out fitting a good modern LPG piggyback ECU to your Emerald equipped TVR Daz, if it's installed, wired and mapped properly it should work really really well.

You are actually 90% of the way there already, and remember these LPG piggyback ECUs are designed with locked down OEM engine management systems in mind, systems you would struggle to map directly. That's where your excellent Emerald comes in, you can get that spark table spot on for LPG on map 2 and the fueling pretty much spot on too even before it reaches the LPG piggyback.

In your case all you really need that piggyback ECU for is it's peak & hold injector drivers, and it's other rather nice LPG specific features like pressure & temp correction, solenoid activation ect ect.

All you really need to complete the picture is someone that understands both the Emerald ECU and the LPG piggyback ECU software, they also need to understand what LPG likes and doesn't like to get the very best from the fuel when doing the gas mapping.

Once you have your expert with that unique combination of skills, the rest is just fitting the tanks and a bit of plumbing/wiring.

With the right team I think you can use your Emerald (with the help of a decent LPG piggyback) to make a lovely job of converting your car to LPG.

And remember Daz you'll have a dual fuel car, that means at a flick of a switch you'll be back driving on petrol just as you are today with absolutely no compromise whatsoever.

Here's an idea of how cheap one of the best, easiest to map and most sophisticate LPG piggyback ECU's are, this LPG Tech piggyback ECU with the addition of some tanks, injectors, plumbing & wiring will give you an instant and nice driving petrol cost equivalent of 45mpg in a stroke.

http://www.lpgshop.co.uk/8cyl-ecu-lpgtech-tech-328...



So for just £170 you can have a dedicated LPG ECU which probably has just as much processing power as your Emerald and as you can see it already comes with a nice loom and all the sensors you need.

Not bad value is it, especially when you consider what we paid for our aftermarket engine management systems wink

I really dont know why you haven't done it already Daz confused

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 10th August 13:54

ChimpOnGas

8,475 posts

118 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
QBee said:
400 mile round trips for remaps are a pain in the proverbial. You may well need to pay several visits, even to someone as good as Lloyds. (Just remembering our friends from Lancashire with KateV8, who also chose Lloyds) So saving a few £££s on the cost of the kit may soon be gobbled up by your car's appetite for LPG or VPower getting issues ironed out.
In response to the above comments and in defense of Lloyds, but mostly to offer the reading audience some accurate clarification, I think the moral of the KateV8 story is actually more like....

"Avoid supercharging an engine with existing unforeseeable mechanical defects or a compression ratio unsuitable for such a radical change in the way it receives it's air"

It really wouldn't matter a jot what engine management system you used on such an engine, or what installers you selected to add the blower. If said engine wasn't fit or it's compression ratio was unsuitable for forced induction in the first place, then you can only surmise the same outcome would have been inevitable with an MBE or any other system.

It's easy to read a headline and make an assumption, it's more difficult to understand the full story when only a fraction of the truth is being presented.

But in this case the unfortunate owner has himself absolved Lloyd Specialist Developments of any responsibility, and publicly on these very pages too.

I think where the confusion comes in is when the owner chose to get a second opinion from a direct competitor of the original blower installers, and then unsurprisingly that competitor jumped at the chance to add one of his own engine management systems.

While the competitor may well have been careful not to directly blame the Canems system or the installers, he's also not been especially proactive it setting the record straight when readers are clearly adding 2+2 and making 5.

People should know the Canems system works in exactly the same way as any other aftermarket engine management system, indeed the internals are almost certainly sourced from the same electronics & sensor manufactures. As such it is no more or less reliable with respect to forced induction than an MBE, Emerald ect ect... as clearly demonstrated by "Mr Supercharged's" reliable Canems managed Rotrex blower installation.

Indeed by the owner's own admission the failure was completely unrelated to the proven reliable Canems system or the work of the installers, who I've only ever found to be trustworthy, honest and highly skilled professionals of the highest order.

To suggest the issue arose from trying to save a few quid is unfair slander and it would seem completely unsupported by any facts, as such it's my feeling that the above comments should be removed immediately by their author.

Keep it fair and keep it accurate boys, there are innocent people's reputations and livelihoods at stake here and anyone reading what has just been said will almost certainly be wrongly mislead.

QBee

16,412 posts

83 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
That wasn't what i meant, Dave. Sorry if you thought so.

I know they think very highly of Lloyds, and i should have said so. I just meant that when they had things to sort out, they were 150-200 miles north of their favoured supplier, which made it an expensive business getting the car over there, traveling back home by train, and then doing the reverse when the car was ready.

I went to Mark Adams for a mapping session on my car, which cost me an entire 10 hour day of working time (I am self employed) and 300 miles driving, for something that took Mark about 3 hours to do.....in Shrewsbury. At the time I lived in Norfolk, but there was no-one else at that time who could map the 14 CUX, and Mark was the best anyway.
Now I live in Notts, about 35 miles from Jools, so my 14CUX issues will go to him. No reflection on Mark whatsoever, he is the guru in my book and lovely chap, just geographical reality.

ChimpOnGas

8,475 posts

118 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
QBee said:
That wasn't what i meant, Dave. Sorry if you thought so.

I know they think very highly of Lloyds, and i should have said so. I just meant that when they had things to sort out, they were 150-200 miles north of their favoured supplier, which made it an expensive business getting the car over there, traveling back home by train, and then doing the reverse when the car was ready.

I went to Mark Adams for a mapping session on my car, which cost me an entire 10 hour day of working time (I am self employed) and 300 miles driving, for something that took Mark about 3 hours to do.....in Shrewsbury. At the time I lived in Norfolk, but there was no-one else at that time who could map the 14 CUX, and Mark was the best anyway.
Now I live in Notts, about 35 miles from Jools, so my 14CUX issues will go to him. No reflection on Mark whatsoever, he is the guru in my book and lovely chap, just geographical reality.
Thanks for putting the record straight Anthony thumbup

If you're close to a well respected Emerald guy it would make perfect sense to go Emerald, if that same guy can fiddle with your 14CUX you've got that option too.

Those in the South of England however would do well to talk with Lloyd Specialist Developments, I don't know how many petrol Canems installations they've done on TVRs to date but it must be running into the multiple tens by now. And they all seem to be doing their thing without issue, so it's definitely a proven reliable option installed and mapped properly as a complete drive in drive out package.

Like you say, there's a lot to be said for choosing someone local, but some will always travel for the best.

For me it's about a trusting relationship between the installer and customer, and in my case with the Lloyd boys it's about feeling like you're working as a team towards a shared goal where equal enthusiasm is demonstrated for a project.

In my case it's about disproving the old wives tales about LPG and learning about how the fuel behaves as I go, it's also been a fantastic chance for me to update my knowlege on injection as the last system I studied at college was Bosh K-Jetronic (showing my age there boys rolleyes).

Lets just say the Lloyd team have been very patient with me wink

Dave.

SILICONEKID345HP

14,662 posts

170 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
ChimpOnGas said:
It's very straightforward Daz, but you will need to listen this time rolleyes

When you switch to map 2 you are switching to a completely different fuel table, you are also switching to a completely different spark table.

So when you map the car on map 2 you make sure..

A. The fuel map as close as possible to what you want for LPG so the piggyback has less to do

B. The spark map is absolutely spot on for LPG - the LPG piggyback doesn't get involved in ignition management so you just make it perfect for 110Ron LPG in the first place

You only run map 2 through the LPG piggyback ECU, the petrol side remains exactly as it is.

When you switch to map two you also use the same switch to turn off the petrol injectors, turn on the LPG injectors, turn on the safety solenoids, and start the flow of gas. The LPG ECU will help you with all these features.

The petrol pump will still run when you're on map 2 (LPG), so the rail is always full of circulating petrol ready for when you switch back to map 1. When you do switch back to petrol the LPG piggyback shuts the LPG safety solenoids, turns off the LPG injectors and the petrol injectors back on.

Set up like this you can actually toggle seamlessly between both fuels on the move, you'll have the perfect ignition for both fuels, the perfect fuel map for petrol, and very very nearly the perfect fuel map for LPG too.

You'll also enjoy all the LPG specific features afforded by the dedicated LPG piggyback ECU, many of which are super sophisticated these days.

So don't rule out fitting a good modern LPG piggyback ECU to your Emerald equipped TVR Daz, if it's installed, wired and mapped properly it should work really really well.

You are actually 90% of the way there already, and remember these LPG piggyback ECUs are designed with locked down OEM engine management systems in mind, systems you would struggle to map directly. That's where your excellent Emerald comes in, you can get that spark table spot on for LPG on map 2 and the fueling pretty much spot on too even before it reaches the LPG piggyback.

In your case all you really need that piggyback ECU for is it's peak & hold injector drivers, and it's other rather nice LPG specific features like pressure & temp correction, solenoid activation ect ect.

All you really need to complete the picture is someone that understands both the Emerald ECU and the LPG piggyback ECU software, they also need to understand what LPG likes and doesn't like to get the very best from the fuel when doing the gas mapping.

Once you have your expert with that unique combination of skills, the rest is just fitting the tanks and a bit of plumbing/wiring.

With the right team I think you can use your Emerald (with the help of a decent LPG piggyback) to make a lovely job of converting your car to LPG.

And remember Daz you'll have a dual fuel car, that means at a flick of a switch you'll be back driving on petrol just as you are today with absolutely no compromise whatsoever.

Here's an idea of how cheap one of the best, easiest to map and most sophisticate LPG piggyback ECU's are, this LPG Tech piggyback ECU with the addition of some tanks, injectors, plumbing & wiring will give you an instant and nice driving petrol cost equivalent of 45mpg in a stroke.

http://www.lpgshop.co.uk/8cyl-ecu-lpgtech-tech-328...



So for just £170 you can have a dedicated LPG ECU which probably has just as much processing power as your Emerald and as you can see it already comes with a nice loom and all the sensors you need.

Not bad value is it, especially when you consider what we paid for our aftermarket engine management systems wink

I really dont know why you haven't done it already Daz confused

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 10th August 13:54
Does the LPG Tech not need the Emerald ECU ? It can be mapped on its own .


Edited by SILICONEKID345HP on Monday 10th August 21:14

ChimpOnGas

8,475 posts

118 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
SILICONEKID345HP said:
Does the LPG Tech not need the Emerald ECU ? It can be mapped on its own .


Edited by SILICONEKID345HP on Monday 10th August 21:14
FFS, I give up Dazbanghead

Do you actually install boilers?eek

If so I might have to pass on your services rolleyes



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2327039/Ne...

SILICONEKID345HP

14,662 posts

170 months

Monday 10th August 2015
quotequote all
ChimpOnGas said:
FFS, I give up Dazbanghead

Do you actually install boilers?eek

If so I might have to pass on your services rolleyes



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2327039/Ne...
That's just around the corner from my girlfriends rented house ,that was nothing to do with me rolleyes