Discussion
Pupp said:
I think the word you're looking for is 'delusional', which clearly is neither fair nor called for.
Also, the quote you have very selectively attributed to me in support of your stance was my response to a very specific request and, as has been pointed out previously, you know full well I disagree with your one size fits all approach for reasons that have been argued ad nauseam now.
One size fits all, that's also inflamitary and utterly incorrect, sorry if you feel I miss quoted you but they are your own words, and the genuine words of loads of others too.Also, the quote you have very selectively attributed to me in support of your stance was my response to a very specific request and, as has been pointed out previously, you know full well I disagree with your one size fits all approach for reasons that have been argued ad nauseam now.
As are these my own genuine words proving I would never suggest a one size fits all approach, here's just one example of many where I've been very clear on this...
ChimpOnGas said:
V8 Developments certainly know their RV8s and build some pretty strong ones too, when I spoke with Rob Robertson about plug choice he was 100% clear his engines (to be used mostly on the street with some track day use) always leave him with a set of BPR6ES because this is the plug he recommends. Now consider NGK themselves promote the BPR6EIX as a direct upgrade and replacement to the BPR6ES and you can rest assured (forced induction and endurance racing aside) it's a perfectly safe plug in what is essentially an ancient old low compression, low revving, and by modern standards a very cool running engine indeed.
I've only persisted with this because I think it's wrong to try and scare people off using a 6 just because TVR specified the B7ECS which as many have witnessed tends to foul in an average reasonably unmodified Chimaera which is 99% of them on the road by the way. If you read these pages you might be mistaken for believing everyone runs 350hp naturally aspirated cars or fire breathing turbo nutter specials, but the truth is 99% of Chimaera aren't that at all and it does seem there's some good evidence to suggest all those relatively unmodified cars would definitely benefit from a set of BPR6ES plugs or better still BPR6EIX.To say that plugs that could actually improve the way this engine runs shouldn't be used because they might damage the engine is ridiculous, I've removed Pupp from the long list of people who have supported the use of 6 heat rated plugs but that still leaves an awful lot of others who freely and of their own will chose to take time and post their positive experiences of following what NGK themselves recommends for the RV8 by fitting a set of plugs one level hotter in their TVR.
Remember me ........
(the OP)
Well I fitted the Denso Iridium tt's...............and ...............
Well the truth is ..............
I have not got a conclusive verdict.
What I did notice is that my poxy stepper started hanging the revs again !
Could this be related ie at given amount of fuel, more efficient combustion = higher revs ?
Thought not !
It started easy enough and idles well enough, but it did that anyway.
I may have detected better throttle response, but needs more driving to be sure - could be a placebo (to carry on the auto-hypochondriac theme.
I need to drive around a bit (roads not track) and whip a plug out to look at it.
(trouble is there is so little electrode that it may not show any colour )
(the OP)
Well I fitted the Denso Iridium tt's...............and ...............
Well the truth is ..............
I have not got a conclusive verdict.
What I did notice is that my poxy stepper started hanging the revs again !
Could this be related ie at given amount of fuel, more efficient combustion = higher revs ?
Thought not !
It started easy enough and idles well enough, but it did that anyway.
I may have detected better throttle response, but needs more driving to be sure - could be a placebo (to carry on the auto-hypochondriac theme.
I need to drive around a bit (roads not track) and whip a plug out to look at it.
(trouble is there is so little electrode that it may not show any colour )
Edited by WokingWedger on Friday 9th December 15:54
Congratulations Peter, and if you dont mind me saying it's quite brave of you to fit these highly destructive time bomb spark plugs from NGK, even though they themselves recommend them for the Rover V8.
Have you noticed any engine damage yet?
My car has done over 30,000 miles on these iridium tipped "6" rated plugs and I'm still waiting for my inevitable engine damage, I guess it's just a matter of time
Have you noticed any engine damage yet?
My car has done over 30,000 miles on these iridium tipped "6" rated plugs and I'm still waiting for my inevitable engine damage, I guess it's just a matter of time
ChimpOnGas said:
Congratulations Peter, and if you dont mind me saying it's quite brave of you to fit these highly destructive time bomb spark plugs from NGK, even though they themselves recommend them for the Rover V8.
Have you noticed any engine damage yet?
My car has done over 30,000 miles on these iridium tipped "6" rated plugs and I'm still waiting for my inevitable engine damage, I guess it's just a matter of time
Good job I fitted the Denso's then! Have you noticed any engine damage yet?
My car has done over 30,000 miles on these iridium tipped "6" rated plugs and I'm still waiting for my inevitable engine damage, I guess it's just a matter of time
WokingWedger said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Congratulations Peter, and if you dont mind me saying it's quite brave of you to fit these highly destructive time bomb spark plugs from NGK, even though they themselves recommend them for the Rover V8.
Have you noticed any engine damage yet?
My car has done over 30,000 miles on these iridium tipped "6" rated plugs and I'm still waiting for my inevitable engine damage, I guess it's just a matter of time
Good job I fitted the Denso's then! Have you noticed any engine damage yet?
My car has done over 30,000 miles on these iridium tipped "6" rated plugs and I'm still waiting for my inevitable engine damage, I guess it's just a matter of time
You're properly living on the edge there, you've now got two tips to fall off
Hope it all works out Ok
I changed to the BPR6ES too recently after reading they were a better choice for general everyday driving with a thrash now and again.
I think we can all get a little carried away with these modifications that in reality probably make feck all difference!
Smooth bore elbows, carbon trumpets, where does it all end!
I think we can all get a little carried away with these modifications that in reality probably make feck all difference!
Smooth bore elbows, carbon trumpets, where does it all end!
Belle427 said:
I changed to the BPR6ES too recently after reading they were a better choice for general everyday driving with a thrash now and again.
I think we can all get a little carried away with these modifications that in reality probably make feck all difference!
Smooth bore elbows, carbon trumpets, where does it all end!
LS twin turbo? I think we can all get a little carried away with these modifications that in reality probably make feck all difference!
Smooth bore elbows, carbon trumpets, where does it all end!
After doing some research and talking with Jason at Powers Performance (mapper) im going to try the Iridium tipped BPR6EIX spark plugs.
So many different views on these plugs.
After deciding to try them a motorcyclist friend says he had loads of trouble with them, used hotter and colder versions, replaced coil etc
Went back to standard plugs and it's been fine since. Says he wasted a small fortune on them.
He even showed me one off the bike, the tip is tiny as is the electrode so maybe just an issue with his bike, they were the recommended ones too. His bike is high mileage but maintained to a very high degree
I get the feeling I could use flint and mine will fire using MBE so it'll be an interesting experiment.
My car will be at Powers Performance next week for a check over of the Mbe and I'll have these Iridium plugs in place so at least I should start using them with a solid set up.
Wish me luck.
So many different views on these plugs.
After deciding to try them a motorcyclist friend says he had loads of trouble with them, used hotter and colder versions, replaced coil etc
Went back to standard plugs and it's been fine since. Says he wasted a small fortune on them.
He even showed me one off the bike, the tip is tiny as is the electrode so maybe just an issue with his bike, they were the recommended ones too. His bike is high mileage but maintained to a very high degree
I get the feeling I could use flint and mine will fire using MBE so it'll be an interesting experiment.
My car will be at Powers Performance next week for a check over of the Mbe and I'll have these Iridium plugs in place so at least I should start using them with a solid set up.
Wish me luck.
That's a pleasant surprise,,,,,
Engine felt lumpy at first,, cold start, could have been my imagination though !
Been for a long drive getting car upto temps etc.
Less throttle to exit junctions, less throttle full stop, it's more responsive.
I tried going through a village at 800 revs in 5 th gear, it's not a very good idea to do this but it did just pull away again and gently pull itself up the revs without any issue.
The projected electrode does feel and sound like it's creating a better burn, im barely touching the throttle and it's flying along.
Better fuel economy could be on the cards because I've got used to the exact positions of my throttle which when burbling about in traffic is already only applying it by fractions,, im applying it even more deftly.
The B7ECS I removed show signs of fouling on the outer pots, all 4 inner pots are a perfect colour which is impressive because No 6 plug cap was just resting on top the plug, it fell off in my hand without even pulling on it.
It's been like it for some time because both the plug and lead had white dust covering them.
It had been making a connection somehow because I've had no misfires other than twice I had a slight stutter the other week.
MBE,,,,, amazing
So the results above you might say are because I had this plug lead issue, could well be but I know my car, the lead was still working somehow.
Early days and I've put them in now so I can get a few miles on them before taking a look at them next Monday at Powers.
I'm still not sure about the cold starting so I'll leave it to go stone cold before trying it again. Hmm.
Basically they don't seem to be getting smacked by the pistons( they are projected ) and they feel/sound/perform as good as anynive had in the car.
It's difficult to get the car to 90degrees and hold it for long with this weather so I was running at 70 degrees most the time.
The hotter grade will take longer to assess but both me and Jason at Powers think it's not going to be an issue
Pupp said:
Not trying to be funny but why on earth would anyone take a spark plug recommendation from someone who, on their own case, can't ensure the caps are on right?
Give me a break 
I'm always checking them for position and that they havnt turned so socks touch manifold, defo user error though because once there on they are a very tight fit.
Used a dab of Wd40 on the ends of the caps when re fitting today, made it easier to get them on.
I could see that I'd pushed the lead back into the socket 10mm or so so making it even harder to land, it looked home but it wasn't.
I took that plug out about month ago, that and a couple of others to check colour.
I do remember not being happy with it but as I say they are so tight once on it's hard to move them much at all so mislead myself into thinking JD. Car hasn't really missed but I had extra pops and bangs the other day so knew something was up.
I can't fit a plug lead, hmmm, my only excuse is there new and I didn't have a good feel for them, they are all a very tight fit, just try pulling one off and you'll see, don't think I pull them by the lead either before you ask.
Fair cop,gov.
What's your view on the plugs I'm using !
I did consider opening up,the connector a bit but would rather have them a tight fit,,,,, I've learnt my lesson and I'll be more diligent next time
Edited by ClassicChimaera on Wednesday 4th January 23:52
Id still say the only definitive test would be an exhaust gas test before and afterwards to get the HC figures as these should drop if the burn is more efficient. It certainly would have shown a huge difference if one plug was not firing ! Anything else like the bum dyno has no worth in my eyes.
blitzracing said:
Id still say the only definitive test would be an exhaust gas test before and afterwards to get the HC figures as these should drop if the burn is more efficient. It certainly would have shown a huge difference if one plug was not firing ! Anything else like the bum dyno has no worth in my eyes.
The plug also has a perfect colour so it wasn't mis firing. I'll do the test sometime next week when I put some new tyre's on the car,,, this will be after Jason has had a look over it, I'm not imagining him adjusting the map anyway so it should be as it was when it was MOT'd about 4 months ago.
I've just cold started it and it spring into life and ran fine, dare I say a little less smelly.
It sounds slightly different and it's quieter at low revs and speed but these things are always offset my the will for it to work but I'm honest about it so that's all I can say.
It was also louder when accelerating
felt sharper. As I'm no expert and just go by feel, I'll let Jason decide if these BPR6EIX are to be left in there or not but my instincts say there very good.
I've been enjoying this thread from an entertainment perspective and the genuine upgrade potential...
For a balanced perspective i've owned my 500 for 13 or 14 years now. I change the plugs annually with rarely more than 3-4k miles on them - why, coz they are cheap and i like my car to run at its best on the rare occassion i use it. I probably over-service the car for its use/mileage but it keeps it in prime condition (and i enjoy the tinkering) and lack of mechanical issues often muted on these pages.
In conclusion I use B7ECS as thats what recommended, my 500 never has excessive idling/ hunting issues often referred to here, and the 500 is not known for its smooth running either.
The plugs do come out with fouling and this has always concerned me, I used to clean them but don't bother these days. The car is normally run fast & long avoiding heavy idling but this is increasingly impossible these days, but largely long fast runs. So if theres an option to stop the fouling i'll certainly give the B6 a go, so long as its doesn't lunch my engine which is unlikely, what has anyone got to lose?
For a balanced perspective i've owned my 500 for 13 or 14 years now. I change the plugs annually with rarely more than 3-4k miles on them - why, coz they are cheap and i like my car to run at its best on the rare occassion i use it. I probably over-service the car for its use/mileage but it keeps it in prime condition (and i enjoy the tinkering) and lack of mechanical issues often muted on these pages.
In conclusion I use B7ECS as thats what recommended, my 500 never has excessive idling/ hunting issues often referred to here, and the 500 is not known for its smooth running either.
The plugs do come out with fouling and this has always concerned me, I used to clean them but don't bother these days. The car is normally run fast & long avoiding heavy idling but this is increasingly impossible these days, but largely long fast runs. So if theres an option to stop the fouling i'll certainly give the B6 a go, so long as its doesn't lunch my engine which is unlikely, what has anyone got to lose?
Entertainment is important 
as is a light attitude.
Concerns have been raised on here and for good cause too.
NGK don't recommend the Iridium plugs but will they have actually taken an old lump like ours and tested them?
You can't recommend something if you've not tested it.
If your plugs work and help cool the engine then leave alone.
I've got a Powers Performance built engine and their MBE
+ alley red
It stays cool if anything.
If Jason isn't to concerned then nor am I.
These Iridium plugs are designed for a harsher environment than our old combustion chambers and in modern cars with much higher service intervals.
They ain't gonna have a tip break off. Not in my estimation. Chimpongas uses them in an engine that runs inherently hotter when burning whilst on lpg, he's likely to tell me he's solved any of that but it's essentially true of lpg that it's a much harder environment for spark plugs.
I'm confident in these and the heat grade change will have little effect to the engines running temps so if they strike better and give less fouling then it's a win win.
It's probably more important to loosen them every now and then to stop them seizing up in the heads!
I'll keep reporting back any changes etc. I'll be pulling plugs out to check regularly so.
It's important to note I've mentioned fouled plugs but my car was over fuelling recently.
It's now running perfectly and been looked over by the cars mapper.
This is a good test because I'm certain of the cars perimeters.
as is a light attitude. Concerns have been raised on here and for good cause too.
NGK don't recommend the Iridium plugs but will they have actually taken an old lump like ours and tested them?
You can't recommend something if you've not tested it.
If your plugs work and help cool the engine then leave alone.
I've got a Powers Performance built engine and their MBE
+ alley red
It stays cool if anything.
If Jason isn't to concerned then nor am I.
These Iridium plugs are designed for a harsher environment than our old combustion chambers and in modern cars with much higher service intervals.
They ain't gonna have a tip break off. Not in my estimation. Chimpongas uses them in an engine that runs inherently hotter when burning whilst on lpg, he's likely to tell me he's solved any of that but it's essentially true of lpg that it's a much harder environment for spark plugs.
I'm confident in these and the heat grade change will have little effect to the engines running temps so if they strike better and give less fouling then it's a win win.
It's probably more important to loosen them every now and then to stop them seizing up in the heads!
I'll keep reporting back any changes etc. I'll be pulling plugs out to check regularly so.
It's important to note I've mentioned fouled plugs but my car was over fuelling recently.
It's now running perfectly and been looked over by the cars mapper.
This is a good test because I'm certain of the cars perimeters.
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