Central Locking Issues - Fekin Pish Poor TVR Wiring Again!
Discussion
Oh how I love TVR wiring... NOT! 
Yesterday the central locking system refused to unlock the car, it'll lock the doors alight but the unlock function is not operational, as you might imagine this is far from ideal!
So, with the door switches, solenoids, and locking mechanisms tested and ruled out it was off with the dash top to investigate, with the central locking relay case removed I can make the doors lock and unlock perfectly by applying light pressure to the lock & unlock contacts, but the unlock coil simply won't function when I press the key/alarm fob.
As we know our system will lock and unlock alternately with the press off the fob, in my case (as you would expect) after unsuccessfully trying to unlock the car the next press of the fob causes the system to lock the already locked doors, so I simply get a double 'Clack, Clack' sound from the door solenoids but ultimately the doors remain locked.
I clearly either have a relay issue or more likely my old Meta unit has finally taken it's last breath, I thought my fellow TVR masochists would be interested to know I've just bought a brand new Swiss made relay for £14.00 which I found on good old EBay, with these relays often commanding over £70 each I figured other's might want to know of it's existence?
This £14.00 relay has the same terminal layout, amp rating & central locking design function as the original Italamec central locking relay used by TVR, so I'm confident it's the right one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222179157853
What I'm not 100% confident about is that my new relay will bring back my unlock function, but for just fourteen quid it's worth a punt before I'm forced to accept the expensive replacement of my original and paired Meta alarm & immobiliser units will be my only option
Fortunately David from HF Solutions is just up the road from me, so I suspect he'll be getting a call next week
http://www.hf-solutions.co.uk/
Rant over, apeart from getting yet another TVR issue off my chest I'm really just posting this in the hope the £14.00 central locking relay I found will help the TVR community save themselves a few quid?
Dave.
Yesterday the central locking system refused to unlock the car, it'll lock the doors alight but the unlock function is not operational, as you might imagine this is far from ideal!
So, with the door switches, solenoids, and locking mechanisms tested and ruled out it was off with the dash top to investigate, with the central locking relay case removed I can make the doors lock and unlock perfectly by applying light pressure to the lock & unlock contacts, but the unlock coil simply won't function when I press the key/alarm fob.
As we know our system will lock and unlock alternately with the press off the fob, in my case (as you would expect) after unsuccessfully trying to unlock the car the next press of the fob causes the system to lock the already locked doors, so I simply get a double 'Clack, Clack' sound from the door solenoids but ultimately the doors remain locked.
I clearly either have a relay issue or more likely my old Meta unit has finally taken it's last breath, I thought my fellow TVR masochists would be interested to know I've just bought a brand new Swiss made relay for £14.00 which I found on good old EBay, with these relays often commanding over £70 each I figured other's might want to know of it's existence?
This £14.00 relay has the same terminal layout, amp rating & central locking design function as the original Italamec central locking relay used by TVR, so I'm confident it's the right one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222179157853
What I'm not 100% confident about is that my new relay will bring back my unlock function, but for just fourteen quid it's worth a punt before I'm forced to accept the expensive replacement of my original and paired Meta alarm & immobiliser units will be my only option
Fortunately David from HF Solutions is just up the road from me, so I suspect he'll be getting a call next week
http://www.hf-solutions.co.uk/
Rant over, apeart from getting yet another TVR issue off my chest I'm really just posting this in the hope the £14.00 central locking relay I found will help the TVR community save themselves a few quid?
Dave.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Sunday 9th April 09:36
Steve_D said:
It is the alarm that does the flip between lock & unlock.
For testing take a test wire connected to earth and touch it to pin 3 of the relay (with relay plugged into loom). This should do unlock. Touch pin 2 to lock.
This should prove if the fault is relay or alarm related.
Steve
Thanks Steve, I did do this but no unlock function For testing take a test wire connected to earth and touch it to pin 3 of the relay (with relay plugged into loom). This should do unlock. Touch pin 2 to lock.
This should prove if the fault is relay or alarm related.
Steve
. I tried a few ways to energise the unlock coil but could only stimulate the pulse with gentle physical figure pressure on the unlock points, actually this method gave me exceptionally reliable locks & unlocks so either the Meta unit isn't commanding the relay to to pulse or the unlock coil or the relay itself has failed.I tested this and there's a definite +12.8v pulse coming out of the Meta unit on my meter when I press the key/alarm fob, but there's no pulsing of the relay's unlock coil. There's also small spark when I disconnect & reconnect the earth terminal at the relay. Reconnecting the earth wire also pulses the unlock coil in the relay indicting a small short, clearly there's a +V on the earth so I checked it and got 1.2v on my meter.
Flashing the earth wire against the relay earth terminal gives me not only the spark but dull click from the door solenoids too, It's normally not enough to give me the full unlock stroke from the solenoid but occasionally it is actually enough of a pulse to fully unlock the doors. If I examine the internals of my original 20 year old Italamec central locking relay it has a circuit board with various capacitors and diodes soldered to it, to be honest with the spark reconnecting the earth terminal and the results of the other meter tests on the relay it does look like I might me lucky and find my £14.00 relay will fix the issue?
TBH I got bored with it all and just went for a beer, I'll fit the new relay next week and go from there
Thanks again for your help
Dave.
I'll (properly) check the relay again tomorrow.
If as suspected my old Meta unit isn't putting out the unlock earth pulse a cost effective fix may be one of the many CDL units on EBay?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222462267509
It'll probably have double the range than the original system too.
If as suspected my old Meta unit isn't putting out the unlock earth pulse a cost effective fix may be one of the many CDL units on EBay?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222462267509
It'll probably have double the range than the original system too.
TV8 said:
Dave, did I see you had disappearing volts recently? On my last car, an alarm issue had similar effects pre sorting one of the relays, so not sure if you have sorted that or if the two could be linked?
Hi Graham,I have been experiencing a low charge rate where my Canems software only ever shows a battery voltage of 13.63v, this is at idle and all the way to 4,000rpm and beyond, no matter what my engine speed is or how many electrical loads I switch on the battery voltage never goes above 13.63v.
I have no idea if it's linked or a coincidence thing?
Here's the history:
When I bought the car 8 years ago it was clear from looking in the file the previous owner had experienced lots of trouble with the Meta system, there was a big bill for reconditioning the alarm system from Offord TVR but when I investigated I discovered all they had done was cut the siren out and removed the indicator fuses from the Meta alarm unit under the dash.
Obviously like this when the alarm was triggered there was no siren noise or flashing of hazards, cutting out the siren and removing those fuses was clearly a right bodge, and especially shocking as Offord TVR had charged the previous owner hundreds of pounds for executing it. Although there was now no audible sign from the missing siren or visual sign from the indicators clearly the alarm was still activating as occasionally I would see the red LED between the speedo & rev counter flashing it's activation warning code at me.
The next thing that happened was my green LED light failed on my golf ball door release, this was some six years ago, then a couple of years later the button stopped working altogether, about that time I was forced to bypass the immobiliser on the higher amp starter solenoid circuit because the engine was occasionally refusing crank even after disengaging the immobiliser.
The bypass worked a treat but the button on the golf ball remained inoperative, I decided I could live with this but I'll be honest I've never really trusted my Meta system so eventually I decided to bypass it altogether putting the ECU circuit on a simple hidden manual immobilisation switch.
As you'd imagine the bypassing and hidden immobiliser switch has been completely reliable but last weekend the central locking element of my Meta system started playing up prompting this post, the car will lock just fine but refuses to unlock. If I open up the central locking relay I can lock & unlock the car manually by gently pressing the contacts on the lock & unlock coils but the system absolutely refuses to unlock the doors when I press my key/alarm fob.
I appreciate a new security system is what the car has really needed all long, I am fortunate in that I have David Fairclough from HF Solutions literately just up the road from my house, it may well come to this but as the work is likely to run into hundreds I can't help feeling as all I need is a tiny earth pulse to the unlock coil inside the central relay a more cost effective solution can be found?
Hence this idea for under a tenner....
Dave.
Steve_D said:
ChimpOnGas said:
........
Hence this idea for under a tenner.............
Plus a boot release thrown in...result.Hence this idea for under a tenner.............
Steve
TBH all I need is three negative pulses:
1. Doors Lock
2. Doors Unlock
3. Boot pulse
Yes mate, with the new relay the car unlocks but now won't lock.
Basically the opposite to what it did with the original relay, clearly it's the Meta unit.
To be honest I expected to find this as I did a proper relay test after I'd hastily pitched the new one and everything pointed to the Meta unit.
I really should hand it over to David at HF Solutions but being incurably cheap I'm going to try the cheap module I bought from EBay. These cars really are let down by their poor wiring and the security system is the biggest weakness along with the inevitable earthing issues.
TBH my system has been dying slowly bit by bit for many years, it's 90's Italian electronics installed badly by Dorris at TVR some 20 years ago, it really shouldn't come as a surprise to me the last element (the central locking pulses) have finally failed.
I'm quite bored with it now, I'll have another crack at it at the weekend and report back here.
Good luck with yours, Dave.
Basically the opposite to what it did with the original relay, clearly it's the Meta unit.
To be honest I expected to find this as I did a proper relay test after I'd hastily pitched the new one and everything pointed to the Meta unit.
I really should hand it over to David at HF Solutions but being incurably cheap I'm going to try the cheap module I bought from EBay. These cars really are let down by their poor wiring and the security system is the biggest weakness along with the inevitable earthing issues.
TBH my system has been dying slowly bit by bit for many years, it's 90's Italian electronics installed badly by Dorris at TVR some 20 years ago, it really shouldn't come as a surprise to me the last element (the central locking pulses) have finally failed.
I'm quite bored with it now, I'll have another crack at it at the weekend and report back here.
Good luck with yours, Dave.
I can't add to any of this and understanding electrics without knowledge is a fraught business but something I've picked up on.
The light on the door opener. Mine sometimes works and I get a green light.
It's stopped working, when I first got the car am I right in thinking there was both a green and red light that would illuminate there. It only ever worked a few times and was so long ago I'm not sure if I dreamed the red light!
I'd like those lights to work again, I was hoping it might be a wiring fault ( bad connection) but after reading your woes Dave maybe it's linked to something more sinister. Alarm works well on my car and immobiliser issues resolved by Powers as has hot start problems associated with poor cabling to starter as part of Mbe upgrade.
Hmmm!
The light on the door opener. Mine sometimes works and I get a green light.
It's stopped working, when I first got the car am I right in thinking there was both a green and red light that would illuminate there. It only ever worked a few times and was so long ago I'm not sure if I dreamed the red light!
I'd like those lights to work again, I was hoping it might be a wiring fault ( bad connection) but after reading your woes Dave
maybe it's linked to something more sinister. Alarm works well on my car and immobiliser issues resolved by Powers as has hot start problems associated with poor cabling to starter as part of Mbe upgrade. Hmmm!
Hi Dave,
On my old car, an old school systematic mechanic/engineer sorted the relays with a similar spare and a bit of emery board on the others. It made a huge difference to the batteries ability to charge/hold volts! Is that your situation, I wouldn't really know!
The new system can only be a good thing.
With the greatest respect to the recognised guru on TVR alarms and immobilers, I don't buy into the complexities of our set up. Sure the first one or two will be harder than the rest but if you think how many systems have been changed out, that is a great revenue stream.
For me at least, said system hasn't even been fit and forget. It was in the car when I bought it and the first repair was chargeable.
The second time it went wrong I just stopped using the system and was going to get it all ripped out and Dan Taylor got said fitter to change it out again FOC after he had problems with the alarm when I left the car with him for a service.
If your device helps a few people, good on you -again!
On my old car, an old school systematic mechanic/engineer sorted the relays with a similar spare and a bit of emery board on the others. It made a huge difference to the batteries ability to charge/hold volts! Is that your situation, I wouldn't really know!
The new system can only be a good thing.
With the greatest respect to the recognised guru on TVR alarms and immobilers, I don't buy into the complexities of our set up. Sure the first one or two will be harder than the rest but if you think how many systems have been changed out, that is a great revenue stream.
For me at least, said system hasn't even been fit and forget. It was in the car when I bought it and the first repair was chargeable.
The second time it went wrong I just stopped using the system and was going to get it all ripped out and Dan Taylor got said fitter to change it out again FOC after he had problems with the alarm when I left the car with him for a service.
If your device helps a few people, good on you -again!
Cheers Graham,
I'll keep everyone posted on the new system, it was £9.00 delivered so let's not get too excited just yet.
However, in theory all I need is some reliable remote controlled earth pulsed to the lock & unlock coils in the central locking relay and it'll be all sorted and I don't see why modern Chinese electronics shouldn't be as good if not better than 90's Italian electronics that were installed badly by TVR and have been doing service for 20 years.
The problem with the Meta system was mostly down to the way it was fitted but the same system was used on Alfa's in the 90's which are famous for giving trouble, if you speak to the three TVR alarm specialists (HF, Carl Baker & Abacus Alarms) they'll all tell you the Meta system is the first thing in quality, personally I'm not convinced.
On the subject of reliability and Chinese electronics people should accept all our lives are dominated by Chinese electronics from our mobile phones to our televisions and everything in between. I have a Chinese made remote controlled battery disconnect device on my TVR (Battery Brain) which has been giving perfect service for some 5 years now.
Unlike the comically poor range of the Meta system I can connect and disconnect by battery remotely standing over 20 meters from the car, if the Meta system was that good why can't it lock and unlock the car until your right next to the car?
Personally I think the Meta system is poor and it didn't help the way TVR installed it, things have moved on and if the Chinese can produce cheap systems like my excellent Battery Brain that work from 20 meters why should I have to suffer worse performance from an expensive new Meta system? If I buy and have installed a new Meta system at great cost all I'm actually getting is something that was designed some 20 years ago, I'm not getting the first thing in latest technology that's for sure and I'm sure the range won't improve because when I quized David at HF on this he said it should be a bit better, this sounded like he was dodging my direct question 'will I get better range if I buy a new Meta system from you?' All modern cars have a remote locking system that works from a long way away, it seems ridiculous in this day an d age an alarm specialists can't give me the same on my TVR!?!???
I may still have to get David from HF in, all the respected local TVR specialist use him so I'm sure his work is good, but it does seem like a big bill just to get my car locking and unlocking properly.
Alan, that light on the golf ball door release was only ever green, and it's been my experience when you lose the green light it the beginning of the end for the Meta system. Slowly but surely since the day the green LED failed on my hijack button other elements failed too.
Best regards boys, watch this space.
Dave.
I'll keep everyone posted on the new system, it was £9.00 delivered so let's not get too excited just yet.
However, in theory all I need is some reliable remote controlled earth pulsed to the lock & unlock coils in the central locking relay and it'll be all sorted and I don't see why modern Chinese electronics shouldn't be as good if not better than 90's Italian electronics that were installed badly by TVR and have been doing service for 20 years.
The problem with the Meta system was mostly down to the way it was fitted but the same system was used on Alfa's in the 90's which are famous for giving trouble, if you speak to the three TVR alarm specialists (HF, Carl Baker & Abacus Alarms) they'll all tell you the Meta system is the first thing in quality, personally I'm not convinced.
On the subject of reliability and Chinese electronics people should accept all our lives are dominated by Chinese electronics from our mobile phones to our televisions and everything in between. I have a Chinese made remote controlled battery disconnect device on my TVR (Battery Brain) which has been giving perfect service for some 5 years now.
Unlike the comically poor range of the Meta system I can connect and disconnect by battery remotely standing over 20 meters from the car, if the Meta system was that good why can't it lock and unlock the car until your right next to the car?
Personally I think the Meta system is poor and it didn't help the way TVR installed it, things have moved on and if the Chinese can produce cheap systems like my excellent Battery Brain that work from 20 meters why should I have to suffer worse performance from an expensive new Meta system? If I buy and have installed a new Meta system at great cost all I'm actually getting is something that was designed some 20 years ago, I'm not getting the first thing in latest technology that's for sure and I'm sure the range won't improve because when I quized David at HF on this he said it should be a bit better, this sounded like he was dodging my direct question 'will I get better range if I buy a new Meta system from you?' All modern cars have a remote locking system that works from a long way away, it seems ridiculous in this day an d age an alarm specialists can't give me the same on my TVR!?!???
I may still have to get David from HF in, all the respected local TVR specialist use him so I'm sure his work is good, but it does seem like a big bill just to get my car locking and unlocking properly.
Alan, that light on the golf ball door release was only ever green, and it's been my experience when you lose the green light it the beginning of the end for the Meta system. Slowly but surely since the day the green LED failed on my hijack button other elements failed too.
Best regards boys, watch this space.
Dave.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Wednesday 12th April 06:41
Here's another cost effective option for those suffering central locking issues on their Chimaera.
http://abacuscaralarms.co.uk/alarmshop/index.php?a...
Basically a remote controlled version of the central locking relay fitted as standard to our cars, if my £9.00 kit doesn't impress then this could be a neat and easy to fit hack to get my car locking and unlocking reliably again.
With two fobs it comes in at £120.00, there's no boot release feature but being from Meta you do get Meta fobs so it would keep my key set looking original.
I give you the Meta M20/12.
http://abacuscaralarms.co.uk/alarmshop/index.php?a...
Basically a remote controlled version of the central locking relay fitted as standard to our cars, if my £9.00 kit doesn't impress then this could be a neat and easy to fit hack to get my car locking and unlocking reliably again.
With two fobs it comes in at £120.00, there's no boot release feature but being from Meta you do get Meta fobs so it would keep my key set looking original.
I give you the Meta M20/12.
My green light has been intermittent for over 5 years but interestingly the doors have always locked/ unlocked with no problems.
I have had new fobs from Abacus a few years ago and they do unlock the car from as far a 10 yards away. I've even locked the car with me inside the house without a problem so maybe that's just the new fobs because I used to have to be stood right next to the car using the old ones.
I have had new fobs from Abacus a few years ago and they do unlock the car from as far a 10 yards away. I've even locked the car with me inside the house without a problem so maybe that's just the new fobs because I used to have to be stood right next to the car using the old ones.
ClassicChimaera said:
My green light has been intermittent for over 5 years but interestingly the doors have always locked/ unlocked with no problems.
I have had new fobs from Abacus a few years ago and they do unlock the car from as far a 10 yards away. I've even locked the car with me inside the house without a problem so maybe that's just the new fobs because I used to have to be stood right next to the car using the old ones.
If you are talking about the button in the centre of the door opener the green light only comes on with the ignition on when you have locked the doors from inside the car using that button. There is no red light.I have had new fobs from Abacus a few years ago and they do unlock the car from as far a 10 yards away. I've even locked the car with me inside the house without a problem so maybe that's just the new fobs because I used to have to be stood right next to the car using the old ones.
If it doesn't work it is either down to one of the two door solenoids, a wiring fault or the light itself - it has nothing to do with the alarm or remote locking.
Ribol said:
f you are talking about the button in the centre of the door opener the green light only comes on with the ignition on when you have locked the doors from inside the car using that button. There is no red light.
If it doesn't work it is either down to one of the two door solenoids, a wiring fault or the light itself - it has nothing to do with the alarm or remote locking.
Excellent, makes sense. thanks Ribol If it doesn't work it is either down to one of the two door solenoids, a wiring fault or the light itself - it has nothing to do with the alarm or remote locking.
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