Aftermarket ECUs
Discussion
Hi Trev
I’m trying to remember
I think it was a guy on Facebook.
I got very lucky but then so did he.
He was a car dealer I think who’d acquired a burnt out Chim that obviously needed new parts in the engine bay so I coupled everything I had for CUX as well as old water hoses and clips and almost everything I’ve ever removed off the car up until then including injectors dizzy caps and old plug leads air intake pipe (which he needed) etc etc
I didn’t advertise it and I’m sure it came up in conversation and the gent contacted me.
There’s a few Rover engine appreciation groups on Facebook I’d try advertising it though as much as any Tvr sites if I was to sell again.
Some people value the CUX Ecu at £400 alone. That’s like bricking the windows up ( daylight robbery)
If you can sell your CUX stuff it can be healthy pocket money that does bring the overall cost of the new Ecu down to something that starts to feel a bit of a bargain when it’s all up and running
If you want to use the car once a week leave it alone, if you want to use it anytime this is the way to go. Sort the immobiliser out etc job done
I’m trying to remember
I think it was a guy on Facebook.
I got very lucky but then so did he.
He was a car dealer I think who’d acquired a burnt out Chim that obviously needed new parts in the engine bay so I coupled everything I had for CUX as well as old water hoses and clips and almost everything I’ve ever removed off the car up until then including injectors dizzy caps and old plug leads air intake pipe (which he needed) etc etc
I didn’t advertise it and I’m sure it came up in conversation and the gent contacted me.
There’s a few Rover engine appreciation groups on Facebook I’d try advertising it though as much as any Tvr sites if I was to sell again.
Some people value the CUX Ecu at £400 alone. That’s like bricking the windows up ( daylight robbery)
If you can sell your CUX stuff it can be healthy pocket money that does bring the overall cost of the new Ecu down to something that starts to feel a bit of a bargain when it’s all up and running
If you want to use the car once a week leave it alone, if you want to use it anytime this is the way to go. Sort the immobiliser out etc job done
RobXjcoupe said:
Just wondering if the aftermarket management systems are mot friendly for cars needing a catalytic converter?
Why wouldn't they be?The original Lucas 14CUX system runs narrow band closed loop, all the aftermarket ECUs will give you faster and more accurate wide band lambda closed loop and far superior ignition timing control that delivers way more stable and flexible timing than a distributor could ever hope to.
If you're worried about looking after your cat, just tune your aftermarket ECU to idle and fast idle at 14.7:1.
TBH the question is not.... "can an after market ECU get me through the emissions?", but..... "how does the original system manage to do it?"
The answer of course comes in the shape of that great big (and very restrictive) catalytic converter, personally I'd bin all the cats completely, find yourself an understanding MoT tester who isn't anal about emissions then fit an aftermarket ECU and run it at 13.5:1 at idle and most other areas too.
Ditch the stupid shrouded electrode no7 plugs for something more appropriate and run about 10 degrees more advance at idle than the distributor system, you won't pass the emissions test but with the right tester on your side you won't need to. The car will run massively better and from that point on you'll never give a second thought to emissions
trev4 said:
Well I can't believe it has taken me so long to make a decision, but after my initial disappointment of not being able to go down to Gems route I found it difficult to choose between the rest of the offerings, that said I have decided to go for the Emerald system.
My decision was helped by the fact that Mat Smith. Sports Cars are now offering a in house service to install and map the Emerald system, after seeing the one they had fitted on Mat's race car it was a easy decision.
Less niche than Gems.My decision was helped by the fact that Mat Smith. Sports Cars are now offering a in house service to install and map the Emerald system, after seeing the one they had fitted on Mat's race car it was a easy decision.
I think that is eminently sensible.
ChimpOnGas said:
Why wouldn't they be?
The original Lucas 14CUX system runs narrow band closed loop, all the aftermarket ECUs will give you faster and more accurate wide band lambda closed loop and far superior ignition timing control that delivers way more stable and flexible timing than a distributor could ever hope to.
I bought a car with Canems conversion already done, and Lloyds had set it up to be open loop. They did tell me when I queried it that the original TVR ones are narrowband and don't work effectively with Canems. It was an option to have lambda sensors fitted and run closed loop, in fact they welded a boss onto the exhaust collector and fitted one for ECU calibration, then removed it. I'm not sure why this was done but most likely it was more money to set up closed loop.The original Lucas 14CUX system runs narrow band closed loop, all the aftermarket ECUs will give you faster and more accurate wide band lambda closed loop and far superior ignition timing control that delivers way more stable and flexible timing than a distributor could ever hope to.
If I plug my laptop into the ECU and check the AFR, it states 20 all the time, which is obviously a default of some kind.
I'm slightly concerned come MoT time but I think I know an exhaust-friendly tester.
ChimpOnGas said:
RobXjcoupe said:
Just wondering if the aftermarket management systems are mot friendly for cars needing a catalytic converter?
Why wouldn't they be?The original Lucas 14CUX system runs narrow band closed loop, all the aftermarket ECUs will give you faster and more accurate wide band lambda closed loop and far superior ignition timing control that delivers way more stable and flexible timing than a distributor could ever hope to.
If you're worried about looking after your cat, just tune your aftermarket ECU to idle and fast idle at 14.7:1.
TBH the question is not.... "can an after market ECU get me through the emissions?", but..... "how does the original system manage to do it?"
The answer of course comes in the shape of that great big (and very restrictive) catalytic converter, personally I'd bin all the cats completely, find yourself an understanding MoT tester who isn't anal about emissions then fit an aftermarket ECU and run it at 13.5:1 at idle and most other areas too.
Ditch the stupid shrouded electrode no7 plugs for something more appropriate and run about 10 degrees more advance at idle than the distributor system, you won't pass the emissions test but with the right tester on your side you won't need to. The car will run massively better and from that point on you'll never give a second thought to emissions
i read about you guys and running superior management systems but you all also don't run any emissions equipment that's why I asked.
RobXjcoupe said:
The mot man I use and trust won't do the car without a cat fitted. So when tested I need it to pass an emissions test.
i read about you guys and running superior management systems but you all also don't run any emissions equipment that's why I asked.
I think you'll find there's a number of us running aftermarket ECU with cats, I don't personally, but many do.i read about you guys and running superior management systems but you all also don't run any emissions equipment that's why I asked.
i have fitted several emeralds to cars with cats still in place in fact the yellow chim i am working on is still fully catted ,just as an aside has mat now got a set of rollers i supplied him the emerald which is in his race car i believe he is unbeaten this season great result not least of all down to the emerald and mats fantastic wheel work.
john
john
Yep no issues with aftermarket ecus and cats, it's just than many people going aftermarket have already done performance tuning, one step of which is to get rid of the cats in search of extra airflow.
I must have fitted more emeralds to tvrs than anyone else (15 years and counting ..) and whilst most are decatted there's some people who like to keep the cats, especially cars used overseas where emissions testing is stricter and can't be bypassed easily. In those cases you need to know that the car will pass the test before being shipped back.
Mat's racer features twice in this years news section and a chimaera for southern ireland (needed to pass emissions testing over there) is the second to last story at the bottom of the page.
http://kitsandclassics.co.uk/new-news/
I must have fitted more emeralds to tvrs than anyone else (15 years and counting ..) and whilst most are decatted there's some people who like to keep the cats, especially cars used overseas where emissions testing is stricter and can't be bypassed easily. In those cases you need to know that the car will pass the test before being shipped back.
Mat's racer features twice in this years news section and a chimaera for southern ireland (needed to pass emissions testing over there) is the second to last story at the bottom of the page.
http://kitsandclassics.co.uk/new-news/
Edited by spitfire4v8 on Tuesday 24th October 09:44
spitfire4v8 said:
Yep no issues with aftermarket ecus and cats, it's just than many people going aftermarket have already done performance tuning, one step of which is to get rid of the cats in search of extra airflow.
I must have fitted more emeralds to tvrs than anyone else (15 years and counting ..) and whilst most are decatted there's some people who like to keep the cats, especially cars used overseas where emissions testing is stricter and can't be bypassed easily. In those cases you need to know that the car will pass the test before being shipped back.
Mat's racer features twice in this years news section and a chimaera for southern ireland (needed to pass emissions testing over there) is the second to last story at the bottom of the page.
http://kitsandclassics.co.uk/new-news/
Passing thought - is it possible to use one of the three maps on the Emerald as an MOT map, in order to run the idle and fast idle sufficiently lean to pass the test? As alluded to above, I'm not trying to take credit for this thought, but with multiple maps available on Emerald (and may also be on other ECUs, but I simply don't know) that would be a sensible use of one of the maps. I must have fitted more emeralds to tvrs than anyone else (15 years and counting ..) and whilst most are decatted there's some people who like to keep the cats, especially cars used overseas where emissions testing is stricter and can't be bypassed easily. In those cases you need to know that the car will pass the test before being shipped back.
Mat's racer features twice in this years news section and a chimaera for southern ireland (needed to pass emissions testing over there) is the second to last story at the bottom of the page.
http://kitsandclassics.co.uk/new-news/
Edited by spitfire4v8 on Tuesday 24th October 09:44
Just thinking out loud that I might ask you to remap my damp squibs map (aka pops and bangs, which don't with the turbo in place) into an MOT map. I only really need two maps, one for normal use on the road, and the other full fat map for the track.
I owe you an email reply from the other week Jools - I will get onto it shortly when wood for trees can be glimpsed again.
Engineer1949 said:
i have fitted several emeralds to cars with cats still in place in fact the yellow chim i am working on is still fully catted ,just as an aside has mat now got a set of rollers i supplied him the emerald which is in his race car i believe he is unbeaten this season great result not least of all down to the emerald and mats fantastic wheel work.
john
I think Mats plan for mine was to trailer it up to Joolz as I had it mapped there last year, he thought it would be good to get like for like results.john
I'm not sure what his long term plan is.
trev4 said:
Hi Alun I will be selling my old kit to help with the cost and I remember you did the same, did you use eBay or sell them on here.
I think it came up in conversation or I answered someone looking for a few parts on Facebook who needed a CUX system after a fire so I sold him the lot including air intake pipe and old hoses and everything I could muster, dizzy caps etc etc. For those interested in emissions test.
My car was mapped with pre cats removed but main cat in place as I prefer to run it catted.
Natural idle CO: 0.01%
Fast idle CO: 0.02%
HC 4ppm
This is a test at a mates garage. ( not Tvr )
Rather impressive I’d say.
In this guise it was mapped to close on 300bhp and 350 ft lb torque
This was a few months ago so about 18 months after install and mapping.
I'm still reading and learning
My 95 Griff is on its original ecu system and still has a distributor.
It has been tuned mainly a taraka upgrade with act triple inlet and exhaust manifolds finished off with a mark Adams rolling road tune on the ecu.
What sort of gains would I expect with an emerald ecu upgrade compared to what I currently have?
My engine made 309bhp (flywheel) and 350lbft of torque (flywheel) when freshly built in 2004. It does suffer a bit of shunt at low rpm and extremely sensitive on the throttle, where I have to dip the clutch and coast at times.
Is this typical as I haven't driven any other tvr other than my own.
Just edited to say it runs on regular unleaded and with catalytic converters but no pre-cats.
Now
My 95 Griff is on its original ecu system and still has a distributor.
It has been tuned mainly a taraka upgrade with act triple inlet and exhaust manifolds finished off with a mark Adams rolling road tune on the ecu.
What sort of gains would I expect with an emerald ecu upgrade compared to what I currently have?
My engine made 309bhp (flywheel) and 350lbft of torque (flywheel) when freshly built in 2004. It does suffer a bit of shunt at low rpm and extremely sensitive on the throttle, where I have to dip the clutch and coast at times.
Is this typical as I haven't driven any other tvr other than my own.
Just edited to say it runs on regular unleaded and with catalytic converters but no pre-cats.
Now
Edited by RobXjcoupe on Tuesday 24th October 20:59
Probably not a great deal in bhp, as that is also governed by things like valve size etc. It will probably be more driveable, but you are looking at £2,000 - £2500 fully installed, new loom, coil packs, leads etc.
A first step may be a visit to Jools to have the 14 CUX remapped to improve the driveability etc. He will know in a matter of minutes after strapping the car to the rolling road if the map etc are way out. He can also advise you on Emerald or not. He is very honest and knowledgable.
He is in Chesterfield, which I agree is a fair way from Sarf Wayels, but it’s mainly motorway and only takes about 2 3/4 hours from Cwmbran. He is 10 minutes off the M1. I would guess about 170 miles. Remapping your CUX is most likely about a 2-3 hour job at most, unless you want cold starting remapping. That takes longer because the car is only truly cold once a day.
He is not expensive. Give him a call.
A first step may be a visit to Jools to have the 14 CUX remapped to improve the driveability etc. He will know in a matter of minutes after strapping the car to the rolling road if the map etc are way out. He can also advise you on Emerald or not. He is very honest and knowledgable.
He is in Chesterfield, which I agree is a fair way from Sarf Wayels, but it’s mainly motorway and only takes about 2 3/4 hours from Cwmbran. He is 10 minutes off the M1. I would guess about 170 miles. Remapping your CUX is most likely about a 2-3 hour job at most, unless you want cold starting remapping. That takes longer because the car is only truly cold once a day.
He is not expensive. Give him a call.
Very impressed with Joolz / Kits & Classics.
I just got my 94 Gritth 500 back from Joolz who did a Lucas 14cux re-map ( and removed loose pre-cats and replaced both lambda sensors ). End result was a MUCH smoother running car that made good power (284 hp stock). BIG difference in driveability and very much worth the re-map time Joolz spent. I was impressed with Joolz: knowledgeable, honest, and extremely thorough....and a great guy to talk with and offer advice/opinions without any pressure.
Qbee/Anthony is correct: take your car to Joolz!
Doug
I just got my 94 Gritth 500 back from Joolz who did a Lucas 14cux re-map ( and removed loose pre-cats and replaced both lambda sensors ). End result was a MUCH smoother running car that made good power (284 hp stock). BIG difference in driveability and very much worth the re-map time Joolz spent. I was impressed with Joolz: knowledgeable, honest, and extremely thorough....and a great guy to talk with and offer advice/opinions without any pressure.
Qbee/Anthony is correct: take your car to Joolz!
Doug
94Griff500 said:
Very impressed with Joolz / Kits & Classics.
I just got my 94 Gritth 500 back from Joolz who did a Lucas 14cux re-map ( and removed loose pre-cats and replaced both lambda sensors ). End result was a MUCH smoother running car that made good power (284 hp stock). BIG difference in driveability and very much worth the re-map time Joolz spent. I was impressed with Joolz: knowledgeable, honest, and extremely thorough....and a great guy to talk with and offer advice/opinions without any pressure.
Qbee/Anthony is correct: take your car to Joolz!
Doug
Looks like that's the way forward then. I've been saving for a bit of a restoration to get the trev looking good again as it's a bit tired looking at the mo. Main thing is the chassis is good as I did keep that clear of debris build up and waxed. Life happens and the car gets put away for longer than I wanted. I'm making headway again and looking forward to the finished result. I just got my 94 Gritth 500 back from Joolz who did a Lucas 14cux re-map ( and removed loose pre-cats and replaced both lambda sensors ). End result was a MUCH smoother running car that made good power (284 hp stock). BIG difference in driveability and very much worth the re-map time Joolz spent. I was impressed with Joolz: knowledgeable, honest, and extremely thorough....and a great guy to talk with and offer advice/opinions without any pressure.
Qbee/Anthony is correct: take your car to Joolz!
Doug
Thanks for the pointers guys
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff