wiring for electric mirrors - Chimaera / Griffith style

wiring for electric mirrors - Chimaera / Griffith style

Author
Discussion

The Horse

Original Poster:

110 posts

153 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
The door mirrors on the S3c that I bought last week do not work.
I've got the centre console out and found the wires are not connected to the switch that determines whether your trying to adjust the left or right mirror and there are three wires, blue, orange and red, floating near the actual "joystick".
Does anyone know which wires go where on the "which mirror" switch and where the floating wires go on the actual joystick ?
Thanks
David

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all


This diagram taken from http://www.wedgeneering.co.uk/images/Electric%20Mi... helped solve a S Series mirror problem in the past, you can visit the topic here

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

The wiring colour codes are likely to be different but the circuit may well be the same

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
Chimaera diagram here but doesn't match up with your info, may help
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

TVRees

1,080 posts

111 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
This might help .... it was originally from www.tvrs3.net webpage, which sadly seems to be down at the mo'


The Horse

Original Poster:

110 posts

153 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
Thanks everyone, very helpful.
My "mirror movement" / joystick switch seems to have 6 terminals on the reverse, with a grey wire that isn't shown in your diagram confused
Compared to the diagram from TVRees, there is a grey wire where the black one is in your diagram and a black wire opposite the green one shown in your diagram.
I'll put the blue orange and red where they are in your diagram and see what happens
David

Edited by The Horse on Monday 18th September 18:48

v8s4me

7,234 posts

218 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
Any help...?


RobXjcoupe

3,151 posts

90 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
How many wires per wing mirror?
Mirrors are heated?

v8s4me

7,234 posts

218 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
From memory it is three wires to each mirror. It's been a which since I last had one off so I may be wrong. My mirrors have heating elements but I don't think they are connected to anything.

GreenV8S

30,149 posts

283 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
The heating elements are not connected on mine.

RobXjcoupe

3,151 posts

90 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
If only 3 wires, one wire is ground the other two are the control, one for each motor.
The switch will do the polarity reverse to enable the motors to move in both directions.
Does the switch have a push in button to turn the heated mirror element on via a timed relay?

RayTVR

1,040 posts

142 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
GreenV8S said:
The heating elements are not connected on mine.
Always wondered about that - my 'S' has wires going to the heaters in the mirrors, anyone know if they actually go anywhere?

The Horse

Original Poster:

110 posts

153 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
Thanks v8s4me, My wiring is exactly the same as yours.
I've connected as shown in your photo but it's still a mess and not working correctly.
I think along the top of the "movement" switch you have red on the left and orange on the right but just to be sure I've tried it the other way round.
It's also confusing that two of the wires going to the left/right mirror selector are black/yellow. Again I've tried swapping them over but no joy.
There are several odd things.
The mirrors only seem to move in one plane, the drivers moving to extreme right and the passenger to the extreme left.
Moving the joystick only has an effect in one plane, although
With the mirror selector in the middle position (which I thought was "off") I still get a relay clicking and movement in the driver's mirror.
With the mirror selector switch selecting one side, both mirrors move in one plane.
Is there more than one relay involved ?

Perhaps the selector switch is broken or the joystick or both.... confused

David

v8s4me

7,234 posts

218 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
I think there is just the one relay jammed in behind the radio. Maybe check the connections on the back of the relay block. If they are all OK get your AVO out and check each wire going into the back of the switch. Find the live and the earth (if there is one on the switch - can't remember) and then connect the live to each of the other wires in turn to see what happens.

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
The Horse said:
Thanks v8s4me, My wiring is exactly the same as yours.
I've connected as shown in your photo but it's still a mess and not working correctly.
I think along the top of the "movement" switch you have red on the left and orange on the right but just to be sure I've tried it the other way round.
It's also confusing that two of the wires going to the left/right mirror selector are black/yellow. Again I've tried swapping them over but no joy.
There are several odd things.
The mirrors only seem to move in one plane, the drivers moving to extreme right and the passenger to the extreme left.
Moving the joystick only has an effect in one plane, although
With the mirror selector in the middle position (which I thought was "off") I still get a relay clicking and movement in the driver's mirror.
With the mirror selector switch selecting one side, both mirrors move in one plane.
Is there more than one relay involved ?

Perhaps the selector switch is broken or the joystick or both.... confused

David
The following may not solve your problem but may point you in the right direction
Above you mention having two black/yellow wires is confusing the fix, you don't mention that having two black/white wires is confusing the fix. Is there a possibility that you haven't noticed in the diagram supplied by Poster TVRees that there aren't two black/yellow wires or two black/white wires at the mirror selection switch? There is a black/yellow wire and a black/yellow/black/yellow wire, there is also a black/white wire and a black/white/black/white wire, these double traced wires are labelled as (2 stripe) in the diagram from Poster TVRees

If the above proves to be correct and you have overlooked the double tracers, using the image from Poster v8s4me you should be able to get the console switches wired correctly. Should you still have problems you will need to check that the mirrors are wired correctly to the door wiring harnesses and also that they are not shorting together at the door hinges or inside the door

Mirror wires shorting together don't always blow fuses but do give some weird mirror operations

zombeh

693 posts

186 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
The heaters are definitely connected on mine, I'm not sure what they're connected *to* though, being TVR it could be anything.

The Horse

Original Poster:

110 posts

153 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
Hello Penelope
The reason I haven't followed the diagram supplied by TVRees is that the my wiring isn't the same as that in the diagram and my "movement" switch has 6 terminals and not the 5 shown in TVRees' diagram.
As far as I'm aware, two types of electric mirrors were fitted, one with a convoluted type mount onto the car (which looked the same as a non-electric option mirror) and another which uses the same Citroen derived mirror as used in the Griffith / Chimaera / Lotus Esprit / Aston DB7 etc.
My car has the Citroen derived mirrors and my wiring is exactly the same as the photo supplied by v8s4me which is why I've followed his wiring layout. The change over switch can be seen in the right of the photo and has 6 terminals as mine does.
I need to trace the wires and see whats going on.
Having looked behind the glove box it's classic TVR wiring but I can see 3 wires that have been cut by a PO and left.
I have a 1994 Chimaera that's off the road as I'm rebuilding the rear driveshafts / diff / suspension and so I'll swap over the mirror movement and selector switches and try and work out whats going on.
The only thing I know is that I really don't like electrics frown
Thanks
David

Edited by The Horse on Tuesday 19th September 14:47

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
The Horse said:
Hello Penelope
The reason I haven't followed the diagram supplied by TVRees is that the my wiring isn't the same as that in the diagram and my "movement" switch has 6 terminals and not the 5 shown in TVRees' diagram.
As far as I'm aware, two types of electric mirrors were fitted, one with a convoluted type mount onto the car (which looked the same as a non-electric option mirror) and another which uses the same Citroen derived mirror as used in the Griffith / Chimaera / Lotus Esprit / Aston DB7 etc.
My car has the Citroen derived mirrors and my wiring is exactly the same as the photo supplied by v8s4me which is why I've followed his wiring layout. The change over switch can be seen in the right of the photo and has 6 terminals as mine does.
I need to trace the wires and see whats going on.
Having looked behind the glove box it's classic TVR wiring but I can see 3 wires that have been cut by a PO and left.
I have a 1994 Chimaera that's off the road as I'm rebuilding the rear driveshafts / diff / suspension and so I'll swap over the mirror movement and selector switches and try and work out whats going on.
The only thing I know is that I really don't like electrics frown
Thanks
David

Edited by The Horse on Tuesday 19th September 14:47
Understood.
In looking at the diagram from TVRees and compairing it to the image from v8s4me, these are a match except for a missing grey wire in the diagram at the movement switch yet can be seen in the v8s4me image (Grey could possibly be switch illumination if needed or as simple as used for mirrors but missing from the diagram) , this led me to summise that the wiring that is at your switches should match the diagram and that you were possibly missing the double traces at black/yellow/black/yellow and black/white/black/white

In the above image I can just about make out double tracers on one black/yellow wire and one black/white wire, the problem is that the light reflecting from the edge of the wires could be fooling me
Anyway, no doubt you have checked for those double traced wires and connected them correctly by now

Good luck

RobXjcoupe

3,151 posts

90 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
Un plug the mirrors and put 12v across the motor wires to make sure they work. If only 3 wires per mirror the motor + will be the colour wires with either a black or grey as the joined ground.
Very easy to figure out without any circuit diagram

The Horse

Original Poster:

110 posts

153 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
Thanks Penelope,
I had missed the fact that the black was in fact black/white and yes, there are two black/white and black/yellow connections to the "selector" switch
I've tried my S3 switches in my Chimaera and the Chimaera mirrors work fine with them installed so the switches are fine.
When refitted to the S3, I still only get both mirrors working in right direction (towards the offside) and only one of the motors in each mirror is working.
I'll remove the door trims and try to connect to the mirrors direct as suggested.

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
The Horse said:
Thanks Penelope,
I had missed the fact that the black was in fact black/white and yes, there are two black/white and black/yellow connections to the "selector" switch
I've tried my S3 switches in my Chimaera and the Chimaera mirrors work fine with them installed so the switches are fine.
When refitted to the S3, I still only get both mirrors working in right direction (towards the offside) and only one of the motors in each mirror is working.
I'll remove the door trims and try to connect to the mirrors direct as suggested.
Mmmm you have checked the 2 x Black and Yellow and 2 x Black and White cables and not noticed any difference between them, I expected you to be posting back that 1 x Black and Yellow was different to the other Black and Yellow because one had more stripes (tracers) than the other, I also expected you to be posting back that 1 x Black and White was different to the other Black and White because one had more stripes (tracers) than the other. This isn't by any means the first time colour codes have varied from car to car.
Do double check the number of stripes (Tracers) on those cables as they should differ and it is critical that they are connected correctly, if they do in fact differ as they should do you will need to try every combination of connections or hope that v8s4me or another poster can send you a image showing where the double striped and single striped wires connect

I doubt you will be finding two motors when you get into the mirrors. each mirror has one motor that is reversed in direction by reversing the polarity to it, the up and down or side to side movements are governed by a solenoid/clutch in the mirror
Someone else may be along in a short while to correct me on the above but I doubt it, as far as I am aware the various mirrors used have all had one motor and one solenoid, if you take a look at the link I posted higher up this topic there are diagrams for you to look at and understand the circuit and how directions are changed over

If it's any consolation, mirror circuits are the second most difficult ones to rectify, stick at it, dont expect a quick fix, work slowly through it and if you need any suggestions post back here

Good luck

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Tuesday 19th September 17:54