Winter jobs - suspension rebuild
Discussion
Looks like about the right time of year to start thinking about the winter maintenance, I was entertaining the idea of a Christmas morning hoon but on balance I think I'd prefer to drink some wine and eat mince pies the night before; plus I'm catering this year so will probably not be allowed. Whenever I go for a drive I seem to get back late. A short blast to dry off the brakes after washing on Sunday turned into a 3 hour sprint around Surrey/Berks, for example 
My workspace looks a bit like this:
i.e. a residential car park; I don't even live in the block, just rent the space. Last winter I did a carpets out interior refurb, took about 10 weeks and raised a few eyebrows with the neighbours but no objections.
The question really is how complex is a total suspension refurb likely to be and what are the pitfalls I'm likely to encounter? Job list looks a bit like:
Remove all wishbones - send for shot blasting and new powder coat, new OE bushes (need to compare the costs vs buying in new)
Remove, wire brush, clean, paint anti roll bars (or replace if corrosion is more than surface)
Replace drop links
Shocks back to Protech for rebuild - there's a rattle in there somewhere and for £30 a corner, might as well do the lot
Considering new track rod ends and ball joints
Chassis inspection and clean, re-apply the waxoyl
Rub down and paint unswept areas of rear brake discs - slight rubbing due to corrosion build up - probably fit new pads
Possibles - PAS hose upgrade - there's a small weep from the big banjo union on the rack. Or I might leave this to service in February
ACT smoothbore induction upgrade
Most of this stuff I've done before now on other cars, but the challenge here is things like bolts that refuse to budge or shear, given the location recovery to the experts might be troublesome. Also no access to power or water down there either, and the mgmt co. are a bit touchy about flammables and fire risk so grinding might be a no-no as well.
Other question is about parts, wishbones I've found a few options for but its more the sundries - bolts, nuts, spacers, bushes, droplinks etc.
My workspace looks a bit like this:
i.e. a residential car park; I don't even live in the block, just rent the space. Last winter I did a carpets out interior refurb, took about 10 weeks and raised a few eyebrows with the neighbours but no objections.
The question really is how complex is a total suspension refurb likely to be and what are the pitfalls I'm likely to encounter? Job list looks a bit like:
Remove all wishbones - send for shot blasting and new powder coat, new OE bushes (need to compare the costs vs buying in new)
Remove, wire brush, clean, paint anti roll bars (or replace if corrosion is more than surface)
Replace drop links
Shocks back to Protech for rebuild - there's a rattle in there somewhere and for £30 a corner, might as well do the lot
Considering new track rod ends and ball joints
Chassis inspection and clean, re-apply the waxoyl
Rub down and paint unswept areas of rear brake discs - slight rubbing due to corrosion build up - probably fit new pads
Possibles - PAS hose upgrade - there's a small weep from the big banjo union on the rack. Or I might leave this to service in February
ACT smoothbore induction upgrade
Most of this stuff I've done before now on other cars, but the challenge here is things like bolts that refuse to budge or shear, given the location recovery to the experts might be troublesome. Also no access to power or water down there either, and the mgmt co. are a bit touchy about flammables and fire risk so grinding might be a no-no as well.
Other question is about parts, wishbones I've found a few options for but its more the sundries - bolts, nuts, spacers, bushes, droplinks etc.
Edited by 2gins on Tuesday 7th November 12:50
Well, you can do all the wishbones on axle stands. Be prepared for some resistance though unless some nice previous owner applied liberal amounts of grease to the bolts.
1. The upper ball joint bolts will almost certainly be seized so you will likely need new ball joints. There are 2 types - cheap and cheerful that don't fit properly as the 'ball is too wide' - and the correct ones available from TVR Powers, Racetech, TVR Parts etc,
2. Removing the other bolts should be reasonably straightforward. However, removing the bushes is a press job, or cut with a hacksaw and hammer out and can be a real fight. Fitting poly bushes is the way to go, simply push them in place with your fingers. Or buy new wishbones with the original bushes already fitted or you will be using a press to get the new OE type ones in.
3. TVR suppliers sell a complete set of nuts and bolts for this job so you can bin the old ones. Use copious amounts of grease. I did all mine in 2 days.
While you have the wishbones off, replacing the drop links and the anti-roll bars is much easier as will be fettling the brake discs. You should find the fuel filter is easier to access so if it has not been replaced for a while, might be an idea to do it now.
Good idea to check the diff mounting bushes for play, especially the top one. It is in a difficult location but with the arms off, a little easier to get to.
It sounds daunting but is very rewarding. Don't forget a full wheel alignment after disturbing the suspension and the track rod ends.
1. The upper ball joint bolts will almost certainly be seized so you will likely need new ball joints. There are 2 types - cheap and cheerful that don't fit properly as the 'ball is too wide' - and the correct ones available from TVR Powers, Racetech, TVR Parts etc,
2. Removing the other bolts should be reasonably straightforward. However, removing the bushes is a press job, or cut with a hacksaw and hammer out and can be a real fight. Fitting poly bushes is the way to go, simply push them in place with your fingers. Or buy new wishbones with the original bushes already fitted or you will be using a press to get the new OE type ones in.
3. TVR suppliers sell a complete set of nuts and bolts for this job so you can bin the old ones. Use copious amounts of grease. I did all mine in 2 days.
While you have the wishbones off, replacing the drop links and the anti-roll bars is much easier as will be fettling the brake discs. You should find the fuel filter is easier to access so if it has not been replaced for a while, might be an idea to do it now.
Good idea to check the diff mounting bushes for play, especially the top one. It is in a difficult location but with the arms off, a little easier to get to.
It sounds daunting but is very rewarding. Don't forget a full wheel alignment after disturbing the suspension and the track rod ends.
Edited by N7GTX on Tuesday 7th November 16:55
Just done this on mine. I was fortunate in that on a '96 with 59k miles, none of the bolts were seized, or I wouldn't have done it myself. Took me about 4 weeks what with lying on the floor to do it all, and outside, so only on dry days!
I too intended to get my wishbones blasted and painted but 5 mins of jabbing at the surface rust ended up with holes.
I bought a complete set from Powers Performance in Coventry and they all fitted (with some swearing and grunting) although you have to grind away some of the powder coating to get the bolts and ball joint bodies in. Be prepared to have to jiggle about with stands and / or jacks to compress the suspension so that the bolts are torqued up without the wishbones on droop.
I am impressed you changed all yours in 2 days. It took me most of one day just to get the front wishbones off, the nuts turning a fraction at a time. And the upper rear wishbone bolts are a laugh, eh? The nut jams up against the body so you have to turn the bolt itself, with a spanner just about possible to put on the nut . Not seized, fortunately.
My top ball joints WERE seized so a trip to my local helpful garage with a vice and big hammer sprung them out. Be prepared to need new balljoints and track rod ends too (For a Ford Cortina!). I did everything I could to avoid disconnecting the brakes but it was all much easier once I bit the bullet and did. A self-bleed kit for under a £5 was easier, although no matter how hard I tried, brake fluid tended to get everywhere. I should have got hold of some proper blanks if I'd been better prepared but rubber glove tips, bits of hose, drill shanks and jubilee clips stopped the flow.
The rear lower wishbones on mine I left on the car, but the upper ones I did treat and repaint. Watch out for the handbrake cables tie-wrapped to the lower wishbones. Mine had rubbed right through the powder coat and the metal underneath had surface rust. Unnecessary I think, the cables are stiff enough to not catch on anything. You may as well do the drop links too, and I also treated the front ARB to a blast and powder coating but this was VERY tricky to put back in with the radiator still in the car.
Whilst at it, I of course rubbed down and treated the small areas of the engine bay chassis rails with loose powder coat I could get at. I also noticed the now tiny 5mm gap between the rails and the exhaust manifold on the o/s so paid for new uprated engine mounts when the geo was done. Only job I paid to be done but one too far for me on the ground. As mentioned before, you MUST get a geo done if the wishbones come off, the camber and tracking will be way out, mine were. (£115 at Top Gear Automotive) In fact the track rod ends had been 14 turns on one side and 6 on the other! I'm told that certain 'fitters' do the tracking wrong on these cars.
It's an ideal time to take the shocks apart and check them out too. I got my springs blasted and re-powder coated for £10 each, transformed their appearance! Used the strap wrench tip i read on here although I found it safer (and easier) to use 4.
I went through quite a bit of Vactan on the surface rust too, and although there are those who will spit on the idea of hammerite, the smooth silver stuff goes on OK and is a fair match. I don't intend to drive it once the roads get like brine. (Had our first grit down on Sunday round here but the rain washed it away today)
I ordered all new nyloc nuts and some washers were replace too but fortunately, all the bolts came out fine. Used a lot of copper grease on assembly too. I was going to upgrade the brakes (grooved discs perhaps?) but there was so little wear on them, I decided not to.
Best of luck! If you succeed, I estimate you'll save at least £1000 in labour charges. More depending on some parts of the country. I wore out a set of overalls dragging myself across the ground so much. had them 20 yrs so done sterling service. Into rags for mopping up oil / fluids now.
I got the top ball joints for £23 the pair. Make sure they are for a Saab 99 and the photo shows they are round with adjustment possible for camber at the top wishbone.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BALL-JOINT-PAIR-UPPER-A...
I too intended to get my wishbones blasted and painted but 5 mins of jabbing at the surface rust ended up with holes.
I bought a complete set from Powers Performance in Coventry and they all fitted (with some swearing and grunting) although you have to grind away some of the powder coating to get the bolts and ball joint bodies in. Be prepared to have to jiggle about with stands and / or jacks to compress the suspension so that the bolts are torqued up without the wishbones on droop.I am impressed you changed all yours in 2 days. It took me most of one day just to get the front wishbones off, the nuts turning a fraction at a time. And the upper rear wishbone bolts are a laugh, eh? The nut jams up against the body so you have to turn the bolt itself, with a spanner just about possible to put on the nut . Not seized, fortunately.
My top ball joints WERE seized so a trip to my local helpful garage with a vice and big hammer sprung them out. Be prepared to need new balljoints and track rod ends too (For a Ford Cortina!). I did everything I could to avoid disconnecting the brakes but it was all much easier once I bit the bullet and did. A self-bleed kit for under a £5 was easier, although no matter how hard I tried, brake fluid tended to get everywhere. I should have got hold of some proper blanks if I'd been better prepared but rubber glove tips, bits of hose, drill shanks and jubilee clips stopped the flow.
The rear lower wishbones on mine I left on the car, but the upper ones I did treat and repaint. Watch out for the handbrake cables tie-wrapped to the lower wishbones. Mine had rubbed right through the powder coat and the metal underneath had surface rust. Unnecessary I think, the cables are stiff enough to not catch on anything. You may as well do the drop links too, and I also treated the front ARB to a blast and powder coating but this was VERY tricky to put back in with the radiator still in the car.
Whilst at it, I of course rubbed down and treated the small areas of the engine bay chassis rails with loose powder coat I could get at. I also noticed the now tiny 5mm gap between the rails and the exhaust manifold on the o/s so paid for new uprated engine mounts when the geo was done. Only job I paid to be done but one too far for me on the ground. As mentioned before, you MUST get a geo done if the wishbones come off, the camber and tracking will be way out, mine were. (£115 at Top Gear Automotive) In fact the track rod ends had been 14 turns on one side and 6 on the other! I'm told that certain 'fitters' do the tracking wrong on these cars.
It's an ideal time to take the shocks apart and check them out too. I got my springs blasted and re-powder coated for £10 each, transformed their appearance! Used the strap wrench tip i read on here although I found it safer (and easier) to use 4.
I went through quite a bit of Vactan on the surface rust too, and although there are those who will spit on the idea of hammerite, the smooth silver stuff goes on OK and is a fair match. I don't intend to drive it once the roads get like brine. (Had our first grit down on Sunday round here but the rain washed it away today)
I ordered all new nyloc nuts and some washers were replace too but fortunately, all the bolts came out fine. Used a lot of copper grease on assembly too. I was going to upgrade the brakes (grooved discs perhaps?) but there was so little wear on them, I decided not to.
Best of luck! If you succeed, I estimate you'll save at least £1000 in labour charges. More depending on some parts of the country. I wore out a set of overalls dragging myself across the ground so much. had them 20 yrs so done sterling service. Into rags for mopping up oil / fluids now.
I got the top ball joints for £23 the pair. Make sure they are for a Saab 99 and the photo shows they are round with adjustment possible for camber at the top wishbone.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BALL-JOINT-PAIR-UPPER-A...
Edited by ianwayne on Tuesday 7th November 21:28
Thanks for that both, very helpful. Yes Geo will be done, most likely TVR101 or I hear there's a also a highly recommended guy in Liphook.
Sounds like brakes are coming off, I'd hoped to leave as much as possible in situ - in that case the calipers might have a refurb as well.
I'm also thinking about the rear uprights and the CV joint gaiters, but this is going another level as I've never done CV gaiters or wheel bearings (presume the bearings will be coming out if I want to play with the uprights / blast and coat rather than wire brush, treat and paint)
Sounds like brakes are coming off, I'd hoped to leave as much as possible in situ - in that case the calipers might have a refurb as well.
I'm also thinking about the rear uprights and the CV joint gaiters, but this is going another level as I've never done CV gaiters or wheel bearings (presume the bearings will be coming out if I want to play with the uprights / blast and coat rather than wire brush, treat and paint)
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=10...
I did it a few years ago and did the above thread for info. I did it quite comfortably in a single garage but it does get you back after a while. It is definitely one of those "whilst I'm at it I may as well" type jobs, if you know what I mean!. Hardest part by for was cracking the ball joints (best done on the car so it can hold them in place whilst your hitting them!).
Enjoy. Steve.
I did it a few years ago and did the above thread for info. I did it quite comfortably in a single garage but it does get you back after a while. It is definitely one of those "whilst I'm at it I may as well" type jobs, if you know what I mean!. Hardest part by for was cracking the ball joints (best done on the car so it can hold them in place whilst your hitting them!).
Enjoy. Steve.
Car's up on the stands and I had a good poke about this morning, good news is it all looks structurally sound so no need to replace any of the wishbones; and some of the mounting bolts look relatively new so maybe they'll come free without too much persuasion. Ball joint bolts look well rusted though.
Questions - access looks like a massive pain in the arse for the forward wishbone bolts at the front - the body looks like it will foul the nut and the wishbone itself looks iffy to get a socket or spanner on the bolt. The rear lower appears to bolt through the outrigger?
What are my options for drop links, ball joints and track rod arms? TVR Parts look a bit dear for what these parts are - about £30 each so the best part of £200 including shipping costs just on small components.
Questions - access looks like a massive pain in the arse for the forward wishbone bolts at the front - the body looks like it will foul the nut and the wishbone itself looks iffy to get a socket or spanner on the bolt. The rear lower appears to bolt through the outrigger?
What are my options for drop links, ball joints and track rod arms? TVR Parts look a bit dear for what these parts are - about £30 each so the best part of £200 including shipping costs just on small components.
The fwd front wishbone upper bolt is actually easier to access through the top with the bonnet open.Yes, the long 5" lower rear bolt goes through the outrigger to a nut on the other side. This was the only bolt on my car at the front that had no thrust washers on it.
As I mentioned earlier, there are several places where all you can get on the nut is a spanner and you have to turn the bolt to undo it, and hope it turns OK! If you haven't any 7/16" and 3/4" spanners, both open end and ring, I'd suggest getting some. The lower front shock nut and bolt can only be accessed with 2 ring spanners. If I hadn't been so frugal, I'd have invested in some ratchet ring spanners which would have saved a fair amount of time.
As I mentioned earlier, there are several places where all you can get on the nut is a spanner and you have to turn the bolt to undo it, and hope it turns OK! If you haven't any 7/16" and 3/4" spanners, both open end and ring, I'd suggest getting some. The lower front shock nut and bolt can only be accessed with 2 ring spanners. If I hadn't been so frugal, I'd have invested in some ratchet ring spanners which would have saved a fair amount of time.
It’s surprising what you can do on axle stands
Some pics for observation/ motivation.
New front end bolt kit is a good idea if you go this far!
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/6pA5u39t[/url
]
I started out thinking I’d change wishbones and ball joints then thought while I’m here I’ll polish exhausts then as they are off I might as well paint the chassis and as the racks out I’ll lacquer that, oh I’ll have a stainless water pipe too,,,,,
This is rather more serious and I would advise avoiding liquids on the floor so going a bit far but removing wishbones etc you can do where you are no probs. I’d say you need better lighting though.
Have fun as I did. I’d never done this before so plenty of reading up and PH questions and answers you’ll be on your way.
Some pics for observation/ motivation.
New front end bolt kit is a good idea if you go this far!
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/6pA5u39t[/url]
I started out thinking I’d change wishbones and ball joints then thought while I’m here I’ll polish exhausts then as they are off I might as well paint the chassis and as the racks out I’ll lacquer that, oh I’ll have a stainless water pipe too,,,,,
This is rather more serious and I would advise avoiding liquids on the floor so going a bit far but removing wishbones etc you can do where you are no probs. I’d say you need better lighting though.
Have fun as I did. I’d never done this before so plenty of reading up and PH questions and answers you’ll be on your way.
wseed said:
I watch with interest as I'm contemplating a similar job to spruce mine up. I've limited space in a currently single garage though is it possible without having to resort to working outside?
I worked outside for 20 years. Whats the issue other than you have loads of room to actually do this, single garage, good luck to ya. The pics are for observation! Onto the seemingly thorny subject of bushes.
I was thinking of going for the original rubber bushes from TVR Parts but then I found the following from 2011:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=10...
Benefit of PU is I gather they can be fitted easily without a press. Drawback is, in my experience, PU bushes get noisy quickly. Creaks and squeaks over any sort of lump.
Also... the cost. My God PU bushes are expensive, looks like £250 for the front wishbones alone.
I was thinking of going for the original rubber bushes from TVR Parts but then I found the following from 2011:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=10...
Benefit of PU is I gather they can be fitted easily without a press. Drawback is, in my experience, PU bushes get noisy quickly. Creaks and squeaks over any sort of lump.
Also... the cost. My God PU bushes are expensive, looks like £250 for the front wishbones alone.
2gins said:
Onto the seemingly thorny subject of bushes.
I was thinking of going for the original rubber bushes from TVR Parts but then I found the following from 2011:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=10...
Benefit of PU is I gather they can be fitted easily without a press. Drawback is, in my experience, PU bushes get noisy quickly. Creaks and squeaks over any sort of lump.
Also... the cost. My God PU bushes are expensive, looks like £250 for the front wishbones alone.
If you dont have a press you will have fun getting the original bushes out. I set them alight with gas bottles so the rubber perished. Then whacked out the centre steel tube. Then cut the sleeve with a hacksaw to weaken it before pushing out. I had full use of garage facilities so why I could do it in 2 days. I fitted the mega expensive poly bushes, yep very expensive but oh so easy. As said above, lifetime warranty. I was thinking of going for the original rubber bushes from TVR Parts but then I found the following from 2011:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=10...
Benefit of PU is I gather they can be fitted easily without a press. Drawback is, in my experience, PU bushes get noisy quickly. Creaks and squeaks over any sort of lump.
Also... the cost. My God PU bushes are expensive, looks like £250 for the front wishbones alone.
I'll be getting the bushes done for me along with the powder coat. Been there before, broken my share of drill bits!
Front brakes coming out at the weekend and then the real dismantling can start. Is it preferable to
(a) drain down the whole system front and rear, leave empty and re-fill and bleed after the job (likely to be 2 months), or
(b) disconnect and cap the lines then just bleed later
I have the AP 4 pots (previous owner got the car ready for FI but never followed through) and have read a few stories about master cylinders failing after being left empty and not being able to get hydraulic pressure after a full drain down.
Front brakes coming out at the weekend and then the real dismantling can start. Is it preferable to
(a) drain down the whole system front and rear, leave empty and re-fill and bleed after the job (likely to be 2 months), or
(b) disconnect and cap the lines then just bleed later
I have the AP 4 pots (previous owner got the car ready for FI but never followed through) and have read a few stories about master cylinders failing after being left empty and not being able to get hydraulic pressure after a full drain down.
Unless the wishbones are in really good condition, I'm not sure it's worth all the hassle unless you have access to removing and fitting bushes yourself. My wishbones were actually too far gone to consider it.
If you have to pay someone to do it, along with the refurb costs, new bushes etc, it becomes pricey. Unless you're set on another colour, a complete set of front wishbones in white powdercoat, with bushes fitted, is £290 + VAT from Powers Performance. OK, they're the OE bushes, but they fitted the car OK too unlike the experience some others have had!
If you have to pay someone to do it, along with the refurb costs, new bushes etc, it becomes pricey. Unless you're set on another colour, a complete set of front wishbones in white powdercoat, with bushes fitted, is £290 + VAT from Powers Performance. OK, they're the OE bushes, but they fitted the car OK too unlike the experience some others have had!
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