Winter jobs - suspension rebuild
Discussion
There's not much in it - the full set front and rear is £650 + VAT. I reckon I can buy the bushes, have them fitted and the powder coat done for under £400 so there's enough of a benefit to justify the hassle as the car will be off the road anyway. It comes down to starting the dismantling and see how it goes.
One consideration is that the powder coat on the wishbones hasn't lasted even 5 years / 15-20k miles. Anecdotally the standard coating is rubbish and I think there's an advantage in going with a proper treatment and re-coat than just replacing with more of the same and doing the same job in in another 5 years.
One consideration is that the powder coat on the wishbones hasn't lasted even 5 years / 15-20k miles. Anecdotally the standard coating is rubbish and I think there's an advantage in going with a proper treatment and re-coat than just replacing with more of the same and doing the same job in in another 5 years.
Well, when you buy a new master cylinder for example, it will have been assembled with rubber grease which maintains the rubber and blanking caps fitted to keep out the moisture.
If you drain down all the brake fluid and leave it, there will be air in the cylinders and around the pistons of the various components. Even if you cap off the components some moisture will have been introduced.
Sometimes when master cylinders have been left dry for a long time, the rubber seals shrink slightly. When you try to bleed again, the seals fail to seal correctly allowing fluid to pass down the side. I've been lucky in the past to recover the seals by pumping the pedal like a lunatic for a couple of minutes but it does not always work.
I have a spare master cylinder in case mine fails but when you see where and how it is located, I think you will do anything not to have to replace or remove it!
However, its your call.
If you drain down all the brake fluid and leave it, there will be air in the cylinders and around the pistons of the various components. Even if you cap off the components some moisture will have been introduced.
Sometimes when master cylinders have been left dry for a long time, the rubber seals shrink slightly. When you try to bleed again, the seals fail to seal correctly allowing fluid to pass down the side. I've been lucky in the past to recover the seals by pumping the pedal like a lunatic for a couple of minutes but it does not always work.
I have a spare master cylinder in case mine fails but when you see where and how it is located, I think you will do anything not to have to replace or remove it!
However, its your call.
Tomorrow's job is to split the front ball joints - upper, lower and track rod ends. If it goes well maybe I'll have the wishbones off on Sunday.
I recall an issue doing ball joints on my last car (TT), where you start undoing the nut and if it's well seized the ball just spins with the nut. Easy then, as there's good access so cutting is the answer. I'm a bit concerned about the top ball joint because isn't the nut inside a recess on the back of the hub, i.e. no access to get a cutting device in. All being well the plan is to undo this nut, put back on a few turns and crack the ball with a screw-out splitter. What can possibly go wrong?
I recall an issue doing ball joints on my last car (TT), where you start undoing the nut and if it's well seized the ball just spins with the nut. Easy then, as there's good access so cutting is the answer. I'm a bit concerned about the top ball joint because isn't the nut inside a recess on the back of the hub, i.e. no access to get a cutting device in. All being well the plan is to undo this nut, put back on a few turns and crack the ball with a screw-out splitter. What can possibly go wrong?
2gins said:
Onto the seemingly thorny subject of bushes.
I was thinking of going for the original rubber bushes from TVR Parts but then I found the following from 2011:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=10...
Benefit of PU is I gather they can be fitted easily without a press. Drawback is, in my experience, PU bushes get noisy quickly. Creaks and squeaks over any sort of lump.
Also... the cost. My God PU bushes are expensive, looks like £250 for the front wishbones alone.
Its not that well known, but if you speak to Eurocarparts they can order power flex bushes, all you need is the power flex part number. When I did it on the Tuscan the complete kit from the regular suppliers was something like £600, from Eurocarparts it was about £280... so a massive saving.I was thinking of going for the original rubber bushes from TVR Parts but then I found the following from 2011:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=10...
Benefit of PU is I gather they can be fitted easily without a press. Drawback is, in my experience, PU bushes get noisy quickly. Creaks and squeaks over any sort of lump.
Also... the cost. My God PU bushes are expensive, looks like £250 for the front wishbones alone.
Ball joints is the current problem. I've no qualms about bashing the top turret about a bit but first the bottom nut has to come free to allow the joint to separate from the hub. They're both very tight / seized solid and I can't get any plusgas into it because its upside down, can't get heat into it because of the access and if I take it off the car I can't compress the suspension to prevent the ball joint splitting and spinning with the nut. Might just have the hubs off and take to the pros. They'll love me.
ETA. Well, they're as good as off. All nuts free'd off including both the top ones - just needed to put the jack handle over the wrench to get more leverage, came free pretty easily after that. Passenger side hub is stripped, I couldn't split the top joint but later realised I hadn't undone the clamp bolt so hopefully with a vice that'll free off easily enough.
Driver's side is all free except for the lock nut on the track rod, so that needs another go with a bit of heat, same for the drop link upper bolts. I'm busy with work for while now and away next weekend so a bit of time to think about it
Time for a gin.
ETA. Well, they're as good as off. All nuts free'd off including both the top ones - just needed to put the jack handle over the wrench to get more leverage, came free pretty easily after that. Passenger side hub is stripped, I couldn't split the top joint but later realised I hadn't undone the clamp bolt so hopefully with a vice that'll free off easily enough.
Driver's side is all free except for the lock nut on the track rod, so that needs another go with a bit of heat, same for the drop link upper bolts. I'm busy with work for while now and away next weekend so a bit of time to think about it
Time for a gin.
Edited by 2gins on Sunday 26th November 19:43
Nearly there on the front now. Hubs are off and finally managed to separate the top BJs, the nuts came free easily in the end it was just a case of positioning the socket just so such that I could slip the jack lever over the socket wrench for more oompf. Splitting them from the hubs was harder but in the end just a case of clamping them upside down on the workbench and smashing the ball side with a drift (sturdy old socket extension) with no mercy.
Top drop link bolts are seized, I reckon they're original - if so, that's 18 years of rust so not a surprise. I'll cut them off then its just the wishbones to come.
Brake calipers are also dismantled and ready for clean up then paint. Not long until I can start cleaning up the chassis and painting down there too. Progress!
Top drop link bolts are seized, I reckon they're original - if so, that's 18 years of rust so not a surprise. I'll cut them off then its just the wishbones to come.
Brake calipers are also dismantled and ready for clean up then paint. Not long until I can start cleaning up the chassis and painting down there too. Progress!
I didn't undo the clamp bolt on the hubs when I did mine. It seemed to me it only clamped the sleeve that the ball joint went through. Putting the hub in a vice and a good smack got my top balljoints out too.
You don't have to get the bottom balljoint out in situ either. If you remove the M6 long bolts with nuts holding the bottom ball joint, the bottom wishbone can be lowered away. I did all this when I was trying to avoid disconnecting the brakes. Your way of taking everything off is the right way.
If the bottom shock bolts won't undo, since no socket will get in there, and they probably won't, use a 3/4" spanner with a jack to 'crack' them. I did this, but be careful if you start lifting the whole car!
As long as the nuts will undo and the wishbone bolts turn, you'll avoid a lot of headaches.
You don't have to get the bottom balljoint out in situ either. If you remove the M6 long bolts with nuts holding the bottom ball joint, the bottom wishbone can be lowered away. I did all this when I was trying to avoid disconnecting the brakes. Your way of taking everything off is the right way.
If the bottom shock bolts won't undo, since no socket will get in there, and they probably won't, use a 3/4" spanner with a jack to 'crack' them. I did this, but be careful if you start lifting the whole car!
As long as the nuts will undo and the wishbone bolts turn, you'll avoid a lot of headaches.
Good advice there, thanks. Take jack down next time just in case. I know the shocks were off a couple of years / 10k ago so hopefully they'll be ok.
No progress this weekend, mrs 2gins has been laid up with a bad hangover most of the day after last night's PTA Christmas do so I've been daddy all day. Annoying but heh ho.
No progress this weekend, mrs 2gins has been laid up with a bad hangover most of the day after last night's PTA Christmas do so I've been daddy all day. Annoying but heh ho.
Bit of an update for anyone interested.
I can see where people are coming from when they've said 'My body off started as a suspension refresh'
Luckily my Chimaera doesn't need such extensive surgery but looking at what I have it is tempting to start taking more stuff off to get better access... I could do a much better job if some other small stuff were to come out, like oh, I don't know, the expansion tank, steering rack gaiters, steering rack, rads, maybe the engine...
The job seems to have morphed from a simple wishbone tidy up to a bit of a de-rust/de-flaky-powder coat/clean/wire brush/paint and underseal challenge. I am lucky insofar as the previous owner has taken good care of it, and it was well prepped on sale to me but nevertheless I'm glad I'm doing this now as it would be a bigger job in say a year or two.
There's a few pics of the passenger side front wheel well after wire brushing (power drill + bits) and cleaning next post down.
I hope I'll have enough time to get the driver's side and the cross members into a similar state over the weekend so that come wednesday when the temperature is forecast to hit double figures, I can prime the bare areas and paint over the lot.
It is quite satisfying... although hard work
If I had a garage the engine would probably be coming out!
I can see where people are coming from when they've said 'My body off started as a suspension refresh'
Luckily my Chimaera doesn't need such extensive surgery but looking at what I have it is tempting to start taking more stuff off to get better access... I could do a much better job if some other small stuff were to come out, like oh, I don't know, the expansion tank, steering rack gaiters, steering rack, rads, maybe the engine...
The job seems to have morphed from a simple wishbone tidy up to a bit of a de-rust/de-flaky-powder coat/clean/wire brush/paint and underseal challenge. I am lucky insofar as the previous owner has taken good care of it, and it was well prepped on sale to me but nevertheless I'm glad I'm doing this now as it would be a bigger job in say a year or two.
There's a few pics of the passenger side front wheel well after wire brushing (power drill + bits) and cleaning next post down.
I hope I'll have enough time to get the driver's side and the cross members into a similar state over the weekend so that come wednesday when the temperature is forecast to hit double figures, I can prime the bare areas and paint over the lot.
It is quite satisfying... although hard work
If I had a garage the engine would probably be coming out!
Edited by 2gins on Sunday 31st December 23:40
a garage 
As we go into the new year I can say that I've finished the front, at least as far as cleaning and painting the chassis goes. First coat of white went on before Christmas when the weather gave me a few days more or less in double figures, I had hoped to get two coats on before the weekend and finish there but after being up all night with a sick child on the thursday I took a look at it and decided, No, today is not a grovelling day. Just finished now, it feels good. Still need to sort out the wishbones - the reason for starting the job in the first place - and rebuild it, but for now work moves on to the rear.
I thought I had some pictures of it in paint but I've not done that yet so in the meantime here's a direct link to the pre-paint pictures again for the lazy. I used Rustoleum Combicolor and went in with the primer first.
New questions:
How do I get the rear brake carriers off, the clearance to get any sort of allen tool in past the main upright looks impossible?
Freeing off the handbrake cables, turn the knurled knobs over the diff to slacken the cable then re-tighten afterwards?
How to separate the upright from the drive shaft? Is it just a case of undo the 6 hex bolts on the inner face (in the back of the upright, iyswim) and separate? Anything tricky to watch out for?
I thought I had some pictures of it in paint but I've not done that yet so in the meantime here's a direct link to the pre-paint pictures again for the lazy. I used Rustoleum Combicolor and went in with the primer first.
New questions:
How do I get the rear brake carriers off, the clearance to get any sort of allen tool in past the main upright looks impossible?
Freeing off the handbrake cables, turn the knurled knobs over the diff to slacken the cable then re-tighten afterwards?
How to separate the upright from the drive shaft? Is it just a case of undo the 6 hex bolts on the inner face (in the back of the upright, iyswim) and separate? Anything tricky to watch out for?
Have a look at my thread when I fitted bigger rear discs. Most of what you are doing is covered.
To get access to your socket headed bolts you will have to undo the 17mm nuts through the hub flange and tap it out a bit. My car had ordinary hexagon headed bolts so not such an issue.
You will have to wind the handbrake adjuster all the way back to get enough slack to unhook the cables at the calipers. Remember it is a 2 part locking ring so hold the front and then unscrew the rear part first then you can wind them all the way. WD40 helps here.
To disconnect the driveshaft from the hub, simply undo the 6 socket headed bolts.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
To get access to your socket headed bolts you will have to undo the 17mm nuts through the hub flange and tap it out a bit. My car had ordinary hexagon headed bolts so not such an issue.
You will have to wind the handbrake adjuster all the way back to get enough slack to unhook the cables at the calipers. Remember it is a 2 part locking ring so hold the front and then unscrew the rear part first then you can wind them all the way. WD40 helps here.
To disconnect the driveshaft from the hub, simply undo the 6 socket headed bolts.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Just a few shots of the front end painted. Very satisfying, not sure whether to overcoat with underseal muck or leave clean and open.
Rear is now mostly dismantled, but for the life of me I couldn't undo the drive shaft bolts either inner or outers, just can't get enough leverage on them on axle stands. So, mini-fail there. Might have another look next time or clean paint what I can with the uprights in situ and have another look next winter - that'll be diff service time I think (80k on the clock and apparently not done, there is some shuntiness)
Brake carriers came off OK in the end, it was a question of taking the bottom bolts out and tapping the carrier round with a hammer and applying plusgas to free off the top bolts enough to get a normal allen key to get them moving.
Nest job is to clean off the excess paint etc
Rear is now mostly dismantled, but for the life of me I couldn't undo the drive shaft bolts either inner or outers, just can't get enough leverage on them on axle stands. So, mini-fail there. Might have another look next time or clean paint what I can with the uprights in situ and have another look next winter - that'll be diff service time I think (80k on the clock and apparently not done, there is some shuntiness)
Brake carriers came off OK in the end, it was a question of taking the bottom bolts out and tapping the carrier round with a hammer and applying plusgas to free off the top bolts enough to get a normal allen key to get them moving.
Nest job is to clean off the excess paint etc
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