Discussion
I'm writing this from a recovery truck with my 450 on strapped down on the trailer.
Going along m42 at slow speeds tonight and the engine suddenly cut out whilst in the middle lane.
Pushed myself over to the hard shoulder.
Turned the key and the fuel pump primes, engine will crank healthily but it wouldn't start. Checked leads, sensor plugs - all good. Never happened before so I thought perhaps I've got a hot start problem. Waited 20 mins (had rung recovery sercice by now) but the same - fuel pump will prime, engine will turn over but no start. Unplugged ecu and relays in footwell, repeated start - no success.
Had my laptop with me so out comes rovergauge to see if there's anything obvious. No fault codes thrown, pump relay is fine.
So I'm at a loss to where the problem could be. The coil and ignition amp are under a year old but may try the old ones again.
Would the 100 amp fuse cause this? I'd think the starter wouldn't turn if it was that.
Any ideas?
Going along m42 at slow speeds tonight and the engine suddenly cut out whilst in the middle lane.
Pushed myself over to the hard shoulder.
Turned the key and the fuel pump primes, engine will crank healthily but it wouldn't start. Checked leads, sensor plugs - all good. Never happened before so I thought perhaps I've got a hot start problem. Waited 20 mins (had rung recovery sercice by now) but the same - fuel pump will prime, engine will turn over but no start. Unplugged ecu and relays in footwell, repeated start - no success.
Had my laptop with me so out comes rovergauge to see if there's anything obvious. No fault codes thrown, pump relay is fine.
So I'm at a loss to where the problem could be. The coil and ignition amp are under a year old but may try the old ones again.
Would the 100 amp fuse cause this? I'd think the starter wouldn't turn if it was that.
Any ideas?
The pump primes, did the engine smell like fuels getting there,,, it should.
Instant failure does sound like electrics, but when I had a pump connection loose it led to instant fuel pressure loss and like electrical failure car simply cut out at speed.
Check the connections are secure and not corroded just for good measure.
Instant failure does sound like electrics, but when I had a pump connection loose it led to instant fuel pressure loss and like electrical failure car simply cut out at speed.
Check the connections are secure and not corroded just for good measure.
Chimp871 said:
I'm writing this from a recovery truck with my 450 on strapped down on the trailer.
Going along m42 at slow speeds tonight and the engine suddenly cut out whilst in the middle lane.
Pushed myself over to the hard shoulder.
Turned the key and the fuel pump primes, engine will crank healthily but it wouldn't start. Checked leads, sensor plugs - all good. Never happened before so I thought perhaps I've got a hot start problem. Waited 20 mins (had rung recovery sercice by now) but the same - fuel pump will prime, engine will turn over but no start. Unplugged ecu and relays in footwell, repeated start - no success.
Had my laptop with me so out comes rovergauge to see if there's anything obvious. No fault codes thrown, pump relay is fine.
So I'm at a loss to where the problem could be. The coil and ignition amp are under a year old but may try the old ones again.
Would the 100 amp fuse cause this? I'd think the starter wouldn't turn if it was that.
Any ideas?
Yes... the immobiliser, PM me for instructions on how to bypass it.Going along m42 at slow speeds tonight and the engine suddenly cut out whilst in the middle lane.
Pushed myself over to the hard shoulder.
Turned the key and the fuel pump primes, engine will crank healthily but it wouldn't start. Checked leads, sensor plugs - all good. Never happened before so I thought perhaps I've got a hot start problem. Waited 20 mins (had rung recovery sercice by now) but the same - fuel pump will prime, engine will turn over but no start. Unplugged ecu and relays in footwell, repeated start - no success.
Had my laptop with me so out comes rovergauge to see if there's anything obvious. No fault codes thrown, pump relay is fine.
So I'm at a loss to where the problem could be. The coil and ignition amp are under a year old but may try the old ones again.
Would the 100 amp fuse cause this? I'd think the starter wouldn't turn if it was that.
Any ideas?
Dave.
Chimp871 said:
.... Just thinking I should have checked under dizzy cap!
Easiest roadside check is to pull the king lead off at the distributor end, place the terminal about 1/4" from a solid steel part of the engine - engine lifting eye, mounting bracket etc - and crank the engine. If you get a series of good sparks then you know the coil and amplifier are probably okay. Next remove the dizzy cap and spin the engine to ensure the shaft is turning. That only leaves the rotor arm and cap......If you do not get a series of good sparks, then check for 12v at the coil terminals. If you do then either the coil, amp or wiring is suspect. If you do not then the problem is likely to be the immobiliser, power supply and so on.
Here is another ongoing topic covering the same problem https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
So recharged battery and tried again, same result.
Spark plug lead tester out and no spark.
So..... Dave is sending me a pm on the immobiliser so assume immobiliser controls fuel pump and spark? Is it strange for the fuel pump to work but not spark? My brain both work or both don't.
Meanwhile I'll root around for me previous coil pack and ign module.
Spark plug lead tester out and no spark.
So..... Dave is sending me a pm on the immobiliser so assume immobiliser controls fuel pump and spark? Is it strange for the fuel pump to work but not spark? My brain both work or both don't.
Meanwhile I'll root around for me previous coil pack and ign module.
Edit: checked inertia switch that and pushed it, it wasn't out.
Did check voltage to coil pack in ignition and demobilised modes and zero volts, switched to old coil pack and the same so its whatever feeds volts to the coil pack. Are we heading to an immobiliser problem?
Thanks Dave for the message, need to read and digest this evening.
Did check voltage to coil pack in ignition and demobilised modes and zero volts, switched to old coil pack and the same so its whatever feeds volts to the coil pack. Are we heading to an immobiliser problem?
Thanks Dave for the message, need to read and digest this evening.
Edited by Chimp871 on Thursday 11th January 11:16
Chimp871 said:
Edit: checked inertia switch that and pushed it, it wasn't out.
Did check voltage to coil pack in ignition and demobilised modes and zero volts, switched to old coil pack and the same so its whatever feeds volts to the coil pack. Are we heading to an immobiliser problem?
Thanks Dave for the message, need to read and digest this evening.
You have as good as sorted out the problem, all you now need to do is find out where the ignition is and isn't and yes the immobiliser could be the problem and will be a good place to check first if you can't gain access to other plugs in the circuitDid check voltage to coil pack in ignition and demobilised modes and zero volts, switched to old coil pack and the same so its whatever feeds volts to the coil pack. Are we heading to an immobiliser problem?
Thanks Dave for the message, need to read and digest this evening.
Edited by Chimp871 on Thursday 11th January 11:16
The coil pack now has 12v as I was reading it across the terminals not terminal to the coil body (ground), durr! So 12v is now available.
However, changed the dizzy cap, rotor and HT leads to my old (& original) set and now I've got spark, not sure how strong it is but it's a spark nonetheless. Dizzy does rotate and there's nothing obviously wrong with the old leads, rotor arm, dizzy cap.
May have reconnected wrong firing order on HT lead to cap but I'll look into that and the engine must be flooded with fuel after all the attempts to turn her over so will wait awhile.
Still don't trust that immobiliser though!!
However, changed the dizzy cap, rotor and HT leads to my old (& original) set and now I've got spark, not sure how strong it is but it's a spark nonetheless. Dizzy does rotate and there's nothing obviously wrong with the old leads, rotor arm, dizzy cap.
May have reconnected wrong firing order on HT lead to cap but I'll look into that and the engine must be flooded with fuel after all the attempts to turn her over so will wait awhile.
Still don't trust that immobiliser though!!
Steve_D said:
Inertia switch is in the fuel pump line only so not that.
Immobiliser is fuel pump and start signal so not that.
Which just leaves basic ignition.
Does the coil have +12V, Fuse 12.
Steve
Immobiliser on my 96 Grifffith isolates the supply to:Immobiliser is fuel pump and start signal so not that.
Which just leaves basic ignition.
Does the coil have +12V, Fuse 12.
Steve
1. The starter motor
2. The ignition amplifier.
The Fuel pump circuit is not isolated directly but indirectly as the +12 to the ignition amp also supplies the ECU, if this is missing then the ECU will not operate the fuel pump relay to initiate the short burst of fuel.
This confused me for ages, as I assumed that the fuel pump circuit was immobilised directly,until I traced the complete circuit.
Perhaps the Chimera wiring is different?
If the immobiliser works fuel pump and ign amp module seaprately then it could still be an issue.
I've not known a flooded car engine not start with WOT and a strong crank. I thought the spark I got from changing dizzy cap/rotor arm was the solution. But if the ign amp module is waiting for the immobiliser I could still be in trouble.
I've not known a flooded car engine not start with WOT and a strong crank. I thought the spark I got from changing dizzy cap/rotor arm was the solution. But if the ign amp module is waiting for the immobiliser I could still be in trouble.
update.
So 100 & 80 amp fuse is ok, all fuses are working.
Coil pack shows 12v, have spark (may not be strong), cut off old connectors to coil pack (looked frayed) and put new ones on. I'm using my latest (bosch) coil pack and old ignition amplifier (which wasn't broke)
Dizzy is showing small shavings of metal presumably from all the cranking,
and.... did the immobiliser bypass which made no difference so wired but as before
result is the same: fuel pump will prime, engine will crank, it tries to fire up but won't, took a video click below.
Just done: pulled the spark plugs (5k old), they looked wet and dirty and fuel smell was v. strong removing the plugs (see below).
What I'm thinking: Plugs too wet/carbon build up (clean up), fried ign amplifier, wrong HT/cylinder to dizzy cap hook up (see my post above) and....... what else should I try?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBV_hGBKJvM&fe...
So 100 & 80 amp fuse is ok, all fuses are working.
Coil pack shows 12v, have spark (may not be strong), cut off old connectors to coil pack (looked frayed) and put new ones on. I'm using my latest (bosch) coil pack and old ignition amplifier (which wasn't broke)
Dizzy is showing small shavings of metal presumably from all the cranking,
and.... did the immobiliser bypass which made no difference so wired but as before
result is the same: fuel pump will prime, engine will crank, it tries to fire up but won't, took a video click below.
Just done: pulled the spark plugs (5k old), they looked wet and dirty and fuel smell was v. strong removing the plugs (see below).
What I'm thinking: Plugs too wet/carbon build up (clean up), fried ign amplifier, wrong HT/cylinder to dizzy cap hook up (see my post above) and....... what else should I try?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBV_hGBKJvM&fe...
On my last Chimaera, before I had the injectors cleaned in 2016, if I stalled it whilst the engine was cold, i.e. within the first couple of minutes, it wouldn't start again. It would flood. Despite those who say a WOT and cranking works, it didn't. I ended up removing all the pugs and the smell of fuel (like the force) was strong!
I left them all out for 24hrs, refitted them, connected everything up and it fired. I know your engine likely cut out for another reason, but it's easy to flood these engines with fuel in my experience. Another way is to remove one of the relays so that the pump fuel doesn't run, then crank the engine and the excess fuel will get chucked out, although this risks your cat! I did this a couple of times and mine survived anyway.
I left them all out for 24hrs, refitted them, connected everything up and it fired. I know your engine likely cut out for another reason, but it's easy to flood these engines with fuel in my experience. Another way is to remove one of the relays so that the pump fuel doesn't run, then crank the engine and the excess fuel will get chucked out, although this risks your cat! I did this a couple of times and mine survived anyway.
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