Discussion
You said there were metal shavings in the dissy cap, that’s not right.
Can you see where they’ve come from? Cap? Rotor arm? Are they shiny silver or graphite?
Is there side to side play in the dissy shaft?
Is it the right arm and cap?
Is the arm on properly?
Is the advance mechanism ok?
In the video it sounds like the timing or mixture is the issue, can you check the timing even just static?
Can you see where they’ve come from? Cap? Rotor arm? Are they shiny silver or graphite?
Is there side to side play in the dissy shaft?
Is it the right arm and cap?
Is the arm on properly?
Is the advance mechanism ok?
In the video it sounds like the timing or mixture is the issue, can you check the timing even just static?
Edited by Oneball on Friday 12th January 19:39
N7GTX said:
Take each plug in turn and hold a flame to the tip. This will burn off any petrol on it. I also heat the tips up before refitting. A gas cooker ring is perfect for this job but a cigarette lighter or gas blowlamp will do the job too.
If you intend to refit the cleaned plugs, I'd make sure they are all sparking before refitting.
Oneball said:
You said there were metal shavings in the dissy cap, that’s not right.
Can you see where they’ve come from? Cap? Rotor arm? Are they shiny silver or graphite? They appear to have come from the cap, shiny silver
Is there side to side play in the dissy shaft? Didn't notice - will check
Is it the right arm and cap? Yes, original lucas
Is the arm on properly? was pushed down firmly - will check
Is the advance mechanism ok? Hard to know as it won't fire. I'd have thought the advance would be a problem on higher revs
In the video it sounds like the timing or mixture is the issue, can you check the timing even just static? With the plugs out, will remove fuel relays and check it. I've not known a dizzy get knocked out of timing but right now my mind is open to anything.
One thing I need t add is that for the last few weeks when starting her up I had to keep the key in crank position as it fluttered into a start. Looking back it must have been building up to the breakdown point which was unusual as it was during driving albeit in sCan you see where they’ve come from? Cap? Rotor arm? Are they shiny silver or graphite? They appear to have come from the cap, shiny silver
Is there side to side play in the dissy shaft? Didn't notice - will check
Is it the right arm and cap? Yes, original lucas
Is the arm on properly? was pushed down firmly - will check
Is the advance mechanism ok? Hard to know as it won't fire. I'd have thought the advance would be a problem on higher revs
In the video it sounds like the timing or mixture is the issue, can you check the timing even just static? With the plugs out, will remove fuel relays and check it. I've not known a dizzy get knocked out of timing but right now my mind is open to anything.
Edited by Oneball on Friday 12th January 19:39
tty slow m42 rush hour traffic.Oneball said:
You said there were metal shavings in the dissy cap, that’s not right.
Can you see where they’ve come from? Cap? Rotor arm? Are they shiny silver or graphite?
Is there side to side play in the dissy shaft?
Is it the right arm and cap?
Is the arm on properly?
Is the advance mechanism ok?
In the video it sounds like the timing or mixture is the issue, can you check the timing even just static?
↑↑↑↑Can you see where they’ve come from? Cap? Rotor arm? Are they shiny silver or graphite?
Is there side to side play in the dissy shaft?
Is it the right arm and cap?
Is the arm on properly?
Is the advance mechanism ok?
In the video it sounds like the timing or mixture is the issue, can you check the timing even just static?
Edited by Oneball on Friday 12th January 19:39
This
There is no point in doing anything until you find out where the metal shavings have come from
As above, there is a very good chance that the rotor arm is catching the distributor cap lobes due to play in the shaft, wrong or incorrectly fitted rotor arm
You shouldn't be turning the engine over until you have found out where the metal shavings have come from as you will very likely be causing more damage
Take your ignition keys into the house and leave them there, now find out what's going on
Have a close look at the distributor cap lobes
Penelope Stoppedit said:
????
This
There is no point in doing anything until you find out where the metal shavings have come from
As above, there is a very good chance that the rotor arm is catching the distributor cap lobes due to play in the shaft, wrong or incorrectly fitted rotor arm
You shouldn't be turning the engine over until you have found out where the metal shavings have come from as you will very likely be causing more damage
Take your ignition keys into the house and leave them there, now find out what's going on
Have a close look at the distributor cap lobes
^^^^ he’s only being concerned and he’s right. This
There is no point in doing anything until you find out where the metal shavings have come from
As above, there is a very good chance that the rotor arm is catching the distributor cap lobes due to play in the shaft, wrong or incorrectly fitted rotor arm
You shouldn't be turning the engine over until you have found out where the metal shavings have come from as you will very likely be causing more damage
Take your ignition keys into the house and leave them there, now find out what's going on
Have a close look at the distributor cap lobes
If you hope to solve this on here I think we need info, pics would remove a lot of questions hopefully.
Does your distributor shaft feel firm with zero play?
Show us the cap and rotor arm.
You have no choice now as I see it but to remove the possibility of a heavily flooded engine although this wasn’t your original problem.
Needing to hold the key cranked is un heard of for one of these cars, you clearly had a problem developing, bad connection slowly getting worse until it eventually fails on the road!
But with continued cranking with fuel pump connected will result in a flooded engine anyway so if this was my car I’d now
Remove plugs recording which piston each came from and it’s colour and wetness. Check for a healthy spark at each plug lead and with those plugs it should be.
Having removed the plugs I’ll now want to discount flooding as washing bores with fuel in extreme cases chucks more and more petrol into your oil so it gets thinner.
The real problem is you might have accidentally removed the oil film on the bores so compromising the engines ability to produce enough compression to fire.
It simply will not fire until this compression returns.
As said above leave overnight at least with plugs still removed.
Maybe crank it with wide open throttle and no fuel pump relay as the engine can suck in air and push out fuel but it’s still best to then leave overnight in extreme cases to evaporate the rest of the fuel.
I’d then get two strong batteries and I mean strong.
Flooding can be a serious problem that needs to be sorted properly or you go round in circles.
Now do the same thing again and this time for at least 2 minutes of cranking. Plugs removed and cranking speed as high as possible, no fuel wide open throttle
It can take a considerable amount of time to re build the oil seal and get the compression building enough for it to fire.
If you no longer smell fuel you might have done the job.
Plugs back in but only if you have healthy spark, picture or video please
Only when you think you have a good spark attempt to start it.
This is all assuming the engine already smells strongly of unburnt fuel
I’m still not sure the fuel is getting there let alone flooded.
Some engines return Compression really quick other’s can take many minutes of cranking to bring oil up the bores and get the all important seal.
I’ve had a Jag that did this a few times and I had no ignition issues at all, it was simply flooded and it took me and a very determined AA man with lots of battery power on board to do just what I’ve said and it still took nearly two hours to get it to fire once. it sounded like yours by the way trying to fire but there’s no compression so it just farts at you.
If your using an old dizzy cap etc replace.
We eventually removed air intake pipe on my Jag and chucked easy start in there as it would not fire otherwise, not to be advised as it nearly blew the manifold off the car but it worked.
If you have a private road I’d simply tow it and turn engine over quickly, it'll have compression almost instantly.
Cranking speed is the secret to this,,,, that’s if it’s truelly flooded.
It will absolutely pen and ink of fuel if it’s flooded.
Pen of the pit stop fame is dead right. You’ll be making the problem worse if you keep turning it over.
All things being well it should never take more than a few seconds to start so take that as a sign something’s been wrong for some time.
Cranking and holding the key is a very bad news indeed. Never should a Tvr need that sort of abuse to start so something’s been breaking down and indeed it sounds like spark/ ignition related.
ETA
Sounds like in preaching!
excuse me. Flooding is not fun.
The fact it broke down whilst moving suggests you have an electrical issue that effects spark or fuel delivery problems.
You have to discount both one way or another.
Hope the bugger fires soon
Edited by Classic Chim on Friday 12th January 22:07
Edited by Classic Chim on Friday 12th January 22:09
Edited by Classic Chim on Friday 12th January 22:15
cheers lads, all advice appreciated.
Plugs are out, been cleaned up but will stay out possibly for a couple of weeks due to work. and yes it did smell strongly of fuel.
The dizzy point shavings were my concern and why I stopped work on it. Remember I had no spark the day after being towed home, I only got spark once I changed leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm but like the video. All parts changed are what I owned and had not previously broke.
I'll post pics of the inside of the dizzy cap tomorrow and check arm position and play in shaft.
Don't worry I haven't cranked the st out of her as the battery wouldn't let me.
To answer CC's point below: I set the timing some years ago during camshaft change so once I've got compression I'll check it but car was running smooth before breakdown, it was only the start that was farty, if that makes sense.
Plugs are out, been cleaned up but will stay out possibly for a couple of weeks due to work. and yes it did smell strongly of fuel.
The dizzy point shavings were my concern and why I stopped work on it. Remember I had no spark the day after being towed home, I only got spark once I changed leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm but like the video. All parts changed are what I owned and had not previously broke.
I'll post pics of the inside of the dizzy cap tomorrow and check arm position and play in shaft.
Don't worry I haven't cranked the s
t out of her as the battery wouldn't let me. To answer CC's point below: I set the timing some years ago during camshaft change so once I've got compression I'll check it but car was running smooth before breakdown, it was only the start that was farty, if that makes sense.
Edited by Chimp871 on Friday 12th January 22:45
^^^^^ what he says
I’d just check very carefully your distributor is tight.
Grab hold of it after you’ve marked its position relative to engine carefully, then gently see if it turns
Anti clock wise to advance ignition
It should stay put. If not your timing might have slipped out.
If it moves 1mm move it back as it doesn’t take much movement at all to get 2 degrees and 4 degrees it probably won’t run.
Easier still if your handy with the spanner’s check the distributor clamp is tight first, if it is it’s unlikely to be a timing problem
I’d just check very carefully your distributor is tight.
Grab hold of it after you’ve marked its position relative to engine carefully, then gently see if it turns
Anti clock wise to advance ignition
It should stay put. If not your timing might have slipped out.
If it moves 1mm move it back as it doesn’t take much movement at all to get 2 degrees and 4 degrees it probably won’t run.
Easier still if your handy with the spanner’s check the distributor clamp is tight first, if it is it’s unlikely to be a timing problem
Chimp871 said:
cheers lads, all advice appreciated.
Plugs are out, been cleaned up but will stay out possibly for a couple of weeks due to work. and yes it did smell strongly of fuel.
The dizzy point shavings were my concern and why I stopped work on it. Remember I had no spark the day after being towed home, I only got spark once I changed leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm but like the video. All parts changed are what I owned and had not previously broke.
I'll post pics of the inside of the dizzy cap tomorrow and check arm position and play in shaft.
Don't worry I haven't cranked the st out of her as the battery wouldn't let me.
Good man staying positive Plugs are out, been cleaned up but will stay out possibly for a couple of weeks due to work. and yes it did smell strongly of fuel.
The dizzy point shavings were my concern and why I stopped work on it. Remember I had no spark the day after being towed home, I only got spark once I changed leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm but like the video. All parts changed are what I owned and had not previously broke.
I'll post pics of the inside of the dizzy cap tomorrow and check arm position and play in shaft.
Don't worry I haven't cranked the s
t out of her as the battery wouldn't let me.
Good, it smells of fuel so you can forget pump or delivery problems.
Bad as what I said has actually got some relevance
It should be ok when you get back, two weeks should at least remove the fuel. I’d still want to turn it over fast as you can for a good 30 seconds or even a minute which seems live 5 to get that oil up
It sounds flooded and a weak sparks only going to add to it.
One thing I learned from the AA man who was a great bloke, each time it wouldn’t start he removed all 8 plugs and cleaned them, once fouled they won’t work !
Anything other than those Iridium plugs I’d say you have to replace the plugs at this stage as they don’t like getting fouled up and just keep on failing. Simple on a bike as you just replace it on a car costly so best to avoid fouling them up.
I think that heating the plugs is a great bit of advice, that must be a bloke who can fire a flooded engine in a snow field at minus 10
Edited by Classic Chim on Friday 12th January 23:04
The other current breakdown thread in the Chimaera section has just been solved by the OP replacing the ignition amplifier with a genuine new one.
Worth a read to see if the symptoms match yours, as it isn’t an expensive fix.
Whilst I doubt it’s the fuel pump, as you have wet spark plugs, I can lend you a genuine working TVR one if you want to test it out.
Worth a read to see if the symptoms match yours, as it isn’t an expensive fix.
Whilst I doubt it’s the fuel pump, as you have wet spark plugs, I can lend you a genuine working TVR one if you want to test it out.
Hopefully the OP will post some images up of the metal shavings, distributor cap and rotor arm, the problem is that once parts have been swapped there is always a possibility that other problems have been created, I wonder if the original distributor cap and rotor arm were creating metal shavings
Now, I'm not what you call "mechanically minded" but from what you describe sounds like the problem I had with my 450 last September.
We tried everything with help from local club members but couldn't fathom out what the problem was. Would turn over nice and strong but just would not fire.
We had ran out of ideas so I had the car recovered to a local TVR specialist who quickly diagnosed the problem - a cheap far eastern rotor arm.
With the correct rotor arm held by the side of the crappy one, it was easy to see that they were slightly different, but of course when previously checking under the distributor cap it looked fine (i.e. not broken). Once the rotor arm was replaced, the car started up straight away.
The specialist said to me that there are lots of cheap quality imported rotor arms about and always to insist on OE.
Incidentally, my car had been fully serviced by another specialist shortly before I bought the car and a replacement rotor arm was on the invoice....
Anyway, may be worth a try.
We tried everything with help from local club members but couldn't fathom out what the problem was. Would turn over nice and strong but just would not fire.
We had ran out of ideas so I had the car recovered to a local TVR specialist who quickly diagnosed the problem - a cheap far eastern rotor arm.
With the correct rotor arm held by the side of the crappy one, it was easy to see that they were slightly different, but of course when previously checking under the distributor cap it looked fine (i.e. not broken). Once the rotor arm was replaced, the car started up straight away.
The specialist said to me that there are lots of cheap quality imported rotor arms about and always to insist on OE.
Incidentally, my car had been fully serviced by another specialist shortly before I bought the car and a replacement rotor arm was on the invoice....
Anyway, may be worth a try.
Penelope Stopit said:
Hopefully the OP will post some images up of the metal shavings, distributor cap and rotor arm, the problem is that once parts have been swapped there is always a possibility that other problems have been created, I wonder if the original distributor cap and rotor arm were creating metal shavings
just got back from the autosport show at the NEC, so tomorrow will post up some pics. I'm thinking the shavings may have been from the dud dizzy/rotor arm as there was no spark. More to follow tomorrow.Dizzy/rotor condition is my priority right now and making sure fuel has evaporated.
To help compression is it recommended to put a drop of oil in each cylinder to create a seal like you do for compression tests?
Edited by Chimp871 on Saturday 13th January 17:45
Chimp871 said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Hopefully the OP will post some images up of the metal shavings, distributor cap and rotor arm, the problem is that once parts have been swapped there is always a possibility that other problems have been created, I wonder if the original distributor cap and rotor arm were creating metal shavings
just go back from the autosport show at the NEC, so tomorrow will post up some pics. I'm thinking the shavings may have been from the dud dizzy/rotor arm as there was no spark. More to follow tomorrow.Dizzy/rotor condition is my priority right now and making sure fuel has evaporated.
To help compression is it recommended to put a drop of oil in each cylinder to create a seal like you do for compression tests?
I think but stand to be corrected that Classic Chim has mentioned this for you to bear in mind and I do recall him advising you to crank the engine over to clear the fuel out and also get some oil to the cylinder bores
Follow the above big very helpful Classic Chim post and you can't go wrong
Don't pour oil or anything else down the bores
Once you are up and running - If the engine oil is stinking of petrol you will need to change it and the oil filter
Edited by Penelope Stopit on Saturday 13th January 18:11
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