500 and grip level
Discussion
Hi again,
I just bought the car (chim500) and had a lot of work on it, so i have a few questions i can t answer by myself and i need some long term owners point of view! I saw there is already some discussion on this topic but i need precision and my case question is a bit different,
The car is very. grippy and will overtseer fully (total lost of grip) only when pushed really hard and at the "bottom end". It feel like too much and even a ford gt will loose grip a lot sooner (at demand) and more predicively/consistantely.. for me it have (too much) supercar/racecar feeling.
Even when i loose the grip the chim will try to bite the ground at each milisec, and you can feel it only want to push you forward and anything else,
How can i get the car a bit more livefull and less planted, glued like this is the case.I know it s utopic and there are different kind of beast, but i want a bit more a miata type of handling and something that loose grip from the back easily, particulary oversteering when turning (i dont need a sylvia s14 but something that slide at demand).
I see on this forum that despite narrow tires, the frame configuration herself was providing so much grip. Is this a genetic trait or could this be a bit changed.
thats the stock setup (supposing i m appoaching these...)
Front suspension:
Toe in/out: +20' (toe in)
Camber: -30' to -1deg
Caster: 4deg
Rear suspension:
Toe in/out: +10' (toe in) or +20'
Camber: -30' to -1deg
I ll go for a precise alignment, Is this something i can tweak to get closer that what i want?
Nb:I already tought to simply overpressuring the rear tyres but it seems not the best idea... I m looking for a street setup!
I just bought the car (chim500) and had a lot of work on it, so i have a few questions i can t answer by myself and i need some long term owners point of view! I saw there is already some discussion on this topic but i need precision and my case question is a bit different,
The car is very. grippy and will overtseer fully (total lost of grip) only when pushed really hard and at the "bottom end". It feel like too much and even a ford gt will loose grip a lot sooner (at demand) and more predicively/consistantely.. for me it have (too much) supercar/racecar feeling.
Even when i loose the grip the chim will try to bite the ground at each milisec, and you can feel it only want to push you forward and anything else,
How can i get the car a bit more livefull and less planted, glued like this is the case.I know it s utopic and there are different kind of beast, but i want a bit more a miata type of handling and something that loose grip from the back easily, particulary oversteering when turning (i dont need a sylvia s14 but something that slide at demand).
I see on this forum that despite narrow tires, the frame configuration herself was providing so much grip. Is this a genetic trait or could this be a bit changed.
thats the stock setup (supposing i m appoaching these...)
Front suspension:
Toe in/out: +20' (toe in)
Camber: -30' to -1deg
Caster: 4deg
Rear suspension:
Toe in/out: +10' (toe in) or +20'
Camber: -30' to -1deg
I ll go for a precise alignment, Is this something i can tweak to get closer that what i want?
Nb:I already tought to simply overpressuring the rear tyres but it seems not the best idea... I m looking for a street setup!
What tyre’s and suspension is on the car.
Your complaining the car has to much grip......
respect to the previous owner by the sound of it
!
It’s a TVR so very much like an old fashioned race car in many ways, Tvr used to beat all the opposition when on track given a big engine, it’s not designed to slide without serious provocation although older style tyres designed for heavier cars will do the trick, but it won’t stop properly and be dangerous in long corners with any hint of a bump.
You don’t want a drift car just more power sliding at slower speeds by the sound of it. Old tyres and very very stiff rear suspension, both not recommended on a road car imo.
If it’s so you can go drifting in a safe environment then go find a drift day and you’ll see you need lots of power and a bone shakingly rock hard car with completely different geo settings from that of a capable road car.
There not comparable really.
I grew up sliding big powerful motor bikes,,, so much power to weight you are still spinning at the end of the straights, you need more power than a standard Tvr supplies for this to maintain a power slide and the use of left ft braking to control the speed and slip angle. If you know all this then sorry but it’s an art not just a set up option, all just my humble opinion.
The car will need to have height adjustable shocks and corner weighting to even think about this so if your prepared for all of that then just find a drift king who sets the cars up and find out what you need to do. Having a shortish wheel base on a Chim doesn’t support this either. You’d be better off with a Cerb, but who can afford to drift a Cerb
I found on a race track if I drove faster the car would slide easily but that does require very high turn in speeds, which is ace if your into this stuff
Your complaining the car has to much grip......
respect to the previous owner by the sound of it
! It’s a TVR so very much like an old fashioned race car in many ways, Tvr used to beat all the opposition when on track given a big engine, it’s not designed to slide without serious provocation although older style tyres designed for heavier cars will do the trick, but it won’t stop properly and be dangerous in long corners with any hint of a bump.
You don’t want a drift car just more power sliding at slower speeds by the sound of it. Old tyres and very very stiff rear suspension, both not recommended on a road car imo.
If it’s so you can go drifting in a safe environment then go find a drift day and you’ll see you need lots of power and a bone shakingly rock hard car with completely different geo settings from that of a capable road car.
There not comparable really.
I grew up sliding big powerful motor bikes,,, so much power to weight you are still spinning at the end of the straights, you need more power than a standard Tvr supplies for this to maintain a power slide and the use of left ft braking to control the speed and slip angle. If you know all this then sorry but it’s an art not just a set up option, all just my humble opinion.
The car will need to have height adjustable shocks and corner weighting to even think about this so if your prepared for all of that then just find a drift king who sets the cars up and find out what you need to do. Having a shortish wheel base on a Chim doesn’t support this either. You’d be better off with a Cerb, but who can afford to drift a Cerb
I found on a race track if I drove faster the car would slide easily but that does require very high turn in speeds, which is ace if your into this stuff
Belle427 said:
Are you sure the engine is in good health as i cant see breaking traction in a 500 would be a problem!
You could always put some linglongs on it!
Yes your right you can force it a lot (or yes you can cowboy lunch it but i m not looking for straight line or donut burn...).it just seems a lot before of lateral gs before breaking it and i feel it feel it always want to get back to grip wich is i think a bit too much and unpleasant...slicks on 125 karting grip a lot but when you lose traction you can with only inertia keep it sliding...same thing for supercars and high perf kitcars i tried (here more power than inertia related) where i felt not so much "continuous" grip (more a big grip and then a switch and then you re free too travel without these rough overgrip problem...You could always put some linglongs on it!
Belle427 said:
Are you sure the engine is in good health as i cant see breaking traction in a 500 would be a problem!
You could always put some linglongs on it!
Yes your right you can force it a lot (or yes you can cowboy lunch it but i m not looking for straight line or donut burn...).it just seems a lot before of lateral gs before breaking it and i feel it feel it always want to get back to grip wich is i think a bit too much and unpleasant...slicks on 125 karting grip a lot but when you lose traction you can with only inertia keep it sliding...same thing for supercars and high perf kitcars i tried (here more power than inertia related) where i felt not so much "continuous" grip (more a big grip and then a switch and then you re free too travel without these rough overgrip problem...You could always put some linglongs on it!
To answer this question you really need to answer Classic Chim's question. Tyre size, make, model and rim size (oh and tyre pressures). If your alignment is okay and you've got it on standard ride height then it is most likely the answer to your grip level and snap oversteer is to do with tyres
Classic Chim said:
What tyre’s and suspension is on the car.
Your complaining the car has to much grip......
respect to the previous owner by the sound of it !
It’s a TVR so very much like an old fashioned race car in many ways, Tvr used to beat all the opposition when on track given a big engine, it’s not designed to slide without serious provocation although older style tyres designed for heavier cars will do the trick, but it won’t stop properly and be dangerous in long corners with any hint of a bump.
You don’t want a drift car just more power sliding at slower speeds by the sound of it. Old tyres and very very stiff rear suspension, both not recommended on a road car imo.
If it’s so you can go drifting in a safe environment then go find a drift day and you’ll see you need lots of power and a bone shakingly rock hard car with completely different geo settings from that of a capable road car.
There not comparable really.
I grew up sliding big powerful motor bikes,,, so much power to weight you are still spinning at the end of the straights, you need more power than a standard Tvr supplies for this to maintain a power slide and the use of left ft braking to control the speed and slip angle. If you know all this then sorry but it’s an art not just a set up option, all just my humble opinion.
The car will need to have height adjustable shocks and corner weighting to even think about this so if your prepared for all of that then just find a drift king who sets the cars up and find out what you need to do. Having a shortish wheel base on a Chim doesn’t support this either. You’d be better off with a Cerb, but who can afford to drift a Cerb
I found on a race track if I drove faster the car would slide easily but that does require very high turn in speeds, which is ace if your into this stuff
Yes it seem pretty at the opposite of what i driver whant and be sure i tought to that...i also think that you get my point and i dont want a drift spec chim. I have nany friend im euro drift challenge i tried these and that s not what i m looking for (sylvia s15 v8 compressor 700cv and a less powered s13). These ate caricature that are too much at the opposite way.Your complaining the car has to much grip......
respect to the previous owner by the sound of it
! It’s a TVR so very much like an old fashioned race car in many ways, Tvr used to beat all the opposition when on track given a big engine, it’s not designed to slide without serious provocation although older style tyres designed for heavier cars will do the trick, but it won’t stop properly and be dangerous in long corners with any hint of a bump.
You don’t want a drift car just more power sliding at slower speeds by the sound of it. Old tyres and very very stiff rear suspension, both not recommended on a road car imo.
If it’s so you can go drifting in a safe environment then go find a drift day and you’ll see you need lots of power and a bone shakingly rock hard car with completely different geo settings from that of a capable road car.
There not comparable really.
I grew up sliding big powerful motor bikes,,, so much power to weight you are still spinning at the end of the straights, you need more power than a standard Tvr supplies for this to maintain a power slide and the use of left ft braking to control the speed and slip angle. If you know all this then sorry but it’s an art not just a set up option, all just my humble opinion.
The car will need to have height adjustable shocks and corner weighting to even think about this so if your prepared for all of that then just find a drift king who sets the cars up and find out what you need to do. Having a shortish wheel base on a Chim doesn’t support this either. You’d be better off with a Cerb, but who can afford to drift a Cerb
I found on a race track if I drove faster the car would slide easily but that does require very high turn in speeds, which is ace if your into this stuff
Respect for your bike history i m motorbike addict sold my rsv4 for an h2 recently and i never tried to slide any liter bike (purposely i mean!) Because that just plain crazy (orher kind of skills that simply want to drift a chimaera are needed)
Lolo256 said:
Classic Chim said:
What tyre’s and suspension is on the car.
Your complaining the car has to much grip......
respect to the previous owner by the sound of it !
It’s a TVR so very much like an old fashioned race car in many ways, Tvr used to beat all the opposition when on track given a big engine, it’s not designed to slide without serious provocation although older style tyres designed for heavier cars will do the trick, but it won’t stop properly and be dangerous in long corners with any hint of a bump.
You don’t want a drift car just more power sliding at slower speeds by the sound of it. Old tyres and very very stiff rear suspension, both not recommended on a road car imo.
If it’s so you can go drifting in a safe environment then go find a drift day and you’ll see you need lots of power and a bone shakingly rock hard car with completely different geo settings from that of a capable road car.
There not comparable really.
I grew up sliding big powerful motor bikes,,, so much power to weight you are still spinning at the end of the straights, you need more power than a standard Tvr supplies for this to maintain a power slide and the use of left ft braking to control the speed and slip angle. If you know all this then sorry but it’s an art not just a set up option, all just my humble opinion.
The car will need to have height adjustable shocks and corner weighting to even think about this so if your prepared for all of that then just find a drift king who sets the cars up and find out what you need to do. Having a shortish wheel base on a Chim doesn’t support this either. You’d be better off with a Cerb, but who can afford to drift a Cerb
I found on a race track if I drove faster the car would slide easily but that does require very high turn in speeds, which is ace if your into this stuff
Yes it seem pretty at the opposite of what i driver whant and be sure i tought to that...i also think that you get my point and i dont want a drift spec chim. I have nany friend im euro drift challenge i tried these and that s not what i m looking for (sylvia s15 v8 compressor 700cv and a less powered s13). These ate caricature that are too much at the opposite way.Your complaining the car has to much grip......
respect to the previous owner by the sound of it
! It’s a TVR so very much like an old fashioned race car in many ways, Tvr used to beat all the opposition when on track given a big engine, it’s not designed to slide without serious provocation although older style tyres designed for heavier cars will do the trick, but it won’t stop properly and be dangerous in long corners with any hint of a bump.
You don’t want a drift car just more power sliding at slower speeds by the sound of it. Old tyres and very very stiff rear suspension, both not recommended on a road car imo.
If it’s so you can go drifting in a safe environment then go find a drift day and you’ll see you need lots of power and a bone shakingly rock hard car with completely different geo settings from that of a capable road car.
There not comparable really.
I grew up sliding big powerful motor bikes,,, so much power to weight you are still spinning at the end of the straights, you need more power than a standard Tvr supplies for this to maintain a power slide and the use of left ft braking to control the speed and slip angle. If you know all this then sorry but it’s an art not just a set up option, all just my humble opinion.
The car will need to have height adjustable shocks and corner weighting to even think about this so if your prepared for all of that then just find a drift king who sets the cars up and find out what you need to do. Having a shortish wheel base on a Chim doesn’t support this either. You’d be better off with a Cerb, but who can afford to drift a Cerb
I found on a race track if I drove faster the car would slide easily but that does require very high turn in speeds, which is ace if your into this stuff
Respect for your bike history i m motorbike addict sold my rsv4 for an h2 recently and i never tried to slide any liter bike (purposely i mean!) Because that just plain crazy (orher kind of skills that simply want to drift a chimaera are needed)
I slid bikes on grass, I’m no GP rider and it was before I employed my brains,,,,,
Sliding is pure car control and the right set of circumstances incl car set up.
I’d be inclined to take your car to a skid pad where it’s wet and learn to control slides with the road set up. You’ll never create a slippy car on dry roads without also creating a car with dangerous properties given an adverse road camber for instance.
What tyre’s and size are on the car?
Spitfire is right and i’m Sure I’ve dreamt about what I could do in a Cerbera given my god given talent,,,, I’m now trying to be funny.....
You need the right car with much more hp than the average Chim will give you to create power slides and more importantly keep you sliding,,, or old hardened stiff side wall tyres.
I have Rainsport 3 so all this is history for me as mine won’t slide much at all anymore.
But the car can now be driven much faster and safer which is my preference. Well just safe really.
Sliding is pure car control and the right set of circumstances incl car set up.
I’d be inclined to take your car to a skid pad where it’s wet and learn to control slides with the road set up. You’ll never create a slippy car on dry roads without also creating a car with dangerous properties given an adverse road camber for instance.
What tyre’s and size are on the car?
Spitfire is right and i’m Sure I’ve dreamt about what I could do in a Cerbera given my god given talent,,,, I’m now trying to be funny.....
You need the right car with much more hp than the average Chim will give you to create power slides and more importantly keep you sliding,,, or old hardened stiff side wall tyres.
I have Rainsport 3 so all this is history for me as mine won’t slide much at all anymore.
But the car can now be driven much faster and safer which is my preference. Well just safe really.
bobfather said:
To answer this question you really need to answer Classic Chim's question. Tyre size, make, model and rim size (oh and tyre pressures). If your alignment is okay and you've got it on standard ride height then it is most likely the answer to your grip level and snap oversteer is to do with tyres
Hi,225/50-15 with standard pressure (explectingly, low at 22 and 24 if i remember good). It s a 1999 500 chimaera. Toyo proxies (i feel it will be the problem). I still chocked the grip of these small rims thin tires setup (i know f1...blabla...but still choking for me). The condition of the alignment is unknown *i just wanted advises before doing that to give them instructions*
Classic Chim said:
I slid bikes on grass, I’m no GP rider and it was before I employed my brains,,,,,
Sliding is pure car control and the right set of circumstances incl car set up.
I’d be inclined to take your car to a skid pad where it’s wet and learn to control slides with the road set up. You’ll never create a slippy car on dry roads without also creating a car with dangerous properties given an adverse road camber for instance.
What tyre’s and size are on the car?
Spitfire is right and i’m Sure I’ve dreamt about what I could do in a Cerbera given my god given talent,,,, I’m now trying to be funny.....
You need the right car with much more hp than the average Chim will give you to create power slides and more importantly keep you sliding,,, or old hardened stiff side wall tyres.
I have Rainsport 3 so all this is history for me as mine won’t slide much at all anymore.
But the car can now be driven much faster and safer which is my preference. Well just safe really.
I m bored of speed and safety i m more fun orientated now (otherwise ill not have buy a tvr but a stupid eurobox/clonebox). I dont want to drift it at160mph and if i felt like the best pilot and wanted to show it i ll ask for the grippyest setup. but i want to dance a bit on mountain pass (and i ll be a lot slower so safer in a way). From experience i ll garantee you You ll never broke someting serious on a snow mountain pass because conditions will permite you to slide at demand at VERY low speed (and a bit faster if you know how too).Sliding is pure car control and the right set of circumstances incl car set up.
I’d be inclined to take your car to a skid pad where it’s wet and learn to control slides with the road set up. You’ll never create a slippy car on dry roads without also creating a car with dangerous properties given an adverse road camber for instance.
What tyre’s and size are on the car?
Spitfire is right and i’m Sure I’ve dreamt about what I could do in a Cerbera given my god given talent,,,, I’m now trying to be funny.....
You need the right car with much more hp than the average Chim will give you to create power slides and more importantly keep you sliding,,, or old hardened stiff side wall tyres.
I have Rainsport 3 so all this is history for me as mine won’t slide much at all anymore.
But the car can now be driven much faster and safer which is my preference. Well just safe really.
With standard wheels and Toyo's the standard alignment works well. The Toyo sidewalls are softer than the SO2pp's that TVR originally fitted so owners tend to run Toyo's at 24/26psi to compensate
Ride height as measured under the bolt plates at the outrigger corners. Basically the lower wishbones should be horizontal at rest. The suspension has unequal length wishbones so changing the ride hight from standard will adversely affect the camber angle and the way camber changes when loading and unloading the corners
Front, 140mm
Rear, 160mm
Rear
1.4 degrees neg camber
1.5mm toe in per side (12 minutes)
Front
3/4 of degree of neg camber
0.75mm toe in per side (6minutes)
Ride height as measured under the bolt plates at the outrigger corners. Basically the lower wishbones should be horizontal at rest. The suspension has unequal length wishbones so changing the ride hight from standard will adversely affect the camber angle and the way camber changes when loading and unloading the corners
Front, 140mm
Rear, 160mm
Rear
1.4 degrees neg camber
1.5mm toe in per side (12 minutes)
Front
3/4 of degree of neg camber
0.75mm toe in per side (6minutes)
Hi everbody,
I continuing my slidings experiments daily and get to the conclusion that rear grip really is disproportionate in comparsion to front grip (wich is not that low). I can get the car oversteer with 100% chances (0%chance understeer) but that s because i m very carefull in my inputs/timing to do it so. I want the car to do it by second nature and dont want to see any understeer possible.
I inflate a bit more the rear tires and it seems a bit better...i dont want to go further this way to avoid the front/back to react too differently to the bumps...
I have two more ideas comming in my mind, please tell me your opinions...
Should i Remove the front arb bar (giving more front grip and then making the back loosing first easily). I could also stiffen the back giving it less grip and keep the front arb (this last solution seems tricky?).
Second thing, squares tires setup seems to get the cars a lot more prone to rotate on herself (confirmed by many autocrosser with many cars). As A way of lowering the rear and accentuate the front grip (as for front arb removing). On my low power miata i puted the larger tires/wheels at the front. My tire seller hearth stopped and he tell me : do it yourself and then go chase the trees! But it is i can garantee you the best setup you can get with this particular car. Should i try a square setup? I love the staggered tvr wheels i have, so it is obvious i could not make a real staggered config. I was thinking there to get some narrower tires at back and wider at front to get them match in width. I dont think the change of the staggered 15/16" setup will change a lot but in my comprehension this change will also go in the more oversteering setup i would like...i keep it as a jocker...
I continuing my slidings experiments daily and get to the conclusion that rear grip really is disproportionate in comparsion to front grip (wich is not that low). I can get the car oversteer with 100% chances (0%chance understeer) but that s because i m very carefull in my inputs/timing to do it so. I want the car to do it by second nature and dont want to see any understeer possible.
I inflate a bit more the rear tires and it seems a bit better...i dont want to go further this way to avoid the front/back to react too differently to the bumps...
I have two more ideas comming in my mind, please tell me your opinions...
Should i Remove the front arb bar (giving more front grip and then making the back loosing first easily). I could also stiffen the back giving it less grip and keep the front arb (this last solution seems tricky?).
Second thing, squares tires setup seems to get the cars a lot more prone to rotate on herself (confirmed by many autocrosser with many cars). As A way of lowering the rear and accentuate the front grip (as for front arb removing). On my low power miata i puted the larger tires/wheels at the front. My tire seller hearth stopped and he tell me : do it yourself and then go chase the trees! But it is i can garantee you the best setup you can get with this particular car. Should i try a square setup? I love the staggered tvr wheels i have, so it is obvious i could not make a real staggered config. I was thinking there to get some narrower tires at back and wider at front to get them match in width. I dont think the change of the staggered 15/16" setup will change a lot but in my comprehension this change will also go in the more oversteering setup i would like...i keep it as a jocker...
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